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Obama On NASA And Isreal In 2008

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Red Dawn

Elite Member
Jun 4, 2001
57,531
3
0
not when Israel has innumerable amounts of intel of the soviets arsenals, made hundreds of fixes to american technology, a training area on IEDs for american soldiers, a guaranteed safe zone for any american ship, vessel, plane, vehicles. provided intel, as well as stop countless terror attacks against americans high on the table. ( just recently Israel, which completely should hate this guy, saved Jimmy Carter, in what would have been an ambush to kill him)


ALL for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So does offering some aid to an ally hurt? no.

is 2 billion (i believe is the amount of aid) enough to keep the country protected? hell no.


so stop bitching about the aid given to Israel, when aid given to other countries have DIRECT links into the massacre of people.
If those Helicopters and Bunker Busters where so vital for Israels protection then they'd stop with the Settlements. Rest assured that if Israel was attacked we'd be right there with them with every thing they need to defend themselves. What we're not going to do is condone their stupid policy of building Settlements in occupied territory which doesn't help the situation there, in fact it just make it worse for all involved.

As for selling Arms to Arab nations, it's necessary to do for influence which is to our vital interest due to our dependency of Foreign Oil. If we didn't need it we wouldn't be doing it.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
1
0
We all know that Israel can do and has done no wrong, so obviously we should ask "how high?" when they say "jump!".
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
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You mean McCain the maverick? The guy who doesn't work for a party or special interests but for YOU? ;)
No, the guy who doesn't claim beyond perfunctory measures that he does work for me. :)

McCain = politician.
Obama = Lying politician. (and since all politicians inevitably lie to start with, this is big)
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
So you're arguing that he cut NASA's budget to keep the deficit down? How do you explain the other (approximately) $1.1 trillion in new budget items last year then? Is that his attempt to fight deficit spending?
Where do you get $1.1 trillion ? As far as I know part of that is the bank bail out money which was started by GW Bush so it isn't "new". Another part is the stimulus which as far as I'm concerned has worked to avoid a catastrophic economic collapse.

I don't know if he propsed cutting NASA spending or reduced increases, my understanding is the propsed budget is $100 billion over 5 years, which is a lot of money.

And Obama's plan is to reduce the deficit as much a spossible without wrecking the economy, which means other things besides NASA will have reduced spending over the next 5 years too.

Obama isn't just a guy posting crap on a website, like you or me, he has to make real choices, despite all the Republican and Tea party protests, nobody has ever proposed any reasonable alternative to the spending that is the "1.1 trillion budget". An alternative that could actually be implemented and would pass the elected Congress.

So while it's all well and good to complain and all about it, in reality nobody could have done any better.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
101,420
5,485
126
Where do you get $1.1 trillion ? As far as I know part of that is the bank bail out money which was started by GW Bush so it isn't "new". Another part is the stimulus which as far as I'm concerned has worked to avoid a catastrophic economic collapse.

I don't know if he propsed cutting NASA spending or reduced increases, my understanding is the propsed budget is $100 billion over 5 years, which is a lot of money.

And Obama's plan is to reduce the deficit as much a spossible without wrecking the economy, which means other things besides NASA will have reduced spending over the next 5 years too.

Obama isn't just a guy posting crap on a website, like you or me, he has to make real choices, despite all the Republican and Tea party protests, nobody has ever proposed any reasonable alternative to the spending that is the "1.1 trillion budget". An alternative that could actually be implemented and would pass the elected Congress.

So while it's all well and good to complain and all about it, in reality nobody could have done any better.
the .gov has made a lot of TARP back, either through outright payments or sales of rights

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB20001424052702304846504575177950029886696.html
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
You are somehow absolutely determined to give Obama credit for everything good, and the GOP the blame for anything bad.
Not directed to me but I thought I'd respond that I'm an Obama supporter who gives the GOP credit for things I agree with.

1. Nixon creating EPA.
2. Eisenhower creating Highway system
3. Nixon improving relations with China
4. George Bush Senior raising taxes when needed.
5. Reagan for improving relations with Russia.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
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Of course he has treated them differently. He has suspended arms shipments to them including choppers and bunker busters. Meanwhile he has sent billions of weapons to the Arab countries. Obama also went out of his way to humiliate Netanyahu in a tick for tack over Biden (the disputed building was also in Jerusalem). Obama doesn't like Israel and prefers the Arab Muslims he bows to - as many feared would be the case.
We've sent aid to Arab countries for decades, that isn't new. Criticizing Israel has been done by adminstrations for decades, that isn't new.

I can't find ANY credible evidence that the United States has "suspended" arms shipments to Israel. Prove it. There have been disputes about exporting particular weapons and systems to Israel for decades, that isn't new.

Arabs, whatever their religion, have the same rights as Israelis, whatever their religion. I believe my President supports that position, which has been the position of my country for decades, it isn't new.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
If those Helicopters and Bunker Busters where so vital for Israels protection then they'd stop with the Settlements. Rest assured that if Israel was attacked we'd be right there with them with every thing they need to defend themselves. What we're not going to do is condone their stupid policy of building Settlements in occupied territory which doesn't help the situation there, in fact it just make it worse for all involved.

As for selling Arms to Arab nations, it's necessary to do for influence which is to our vital interest due to our dependency of Foreign Oil. If we didn't need it we wouldn't be doing it.
A problem is that we are not there when Israel is attacked by the terrorists.
Lip service for an attack from a nation is great - there is no nation outside Iran and Syria that have the ability to do anything directly.
Syria is a whimp. Iran is a question mark.

But we do nothing about the militants that attack Israel - except to pat them on the head and say play nice (AGAIN)

And do they listen?
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
A problem is that we are not there when Israel is attacked by the terrorists.
Lip service for an attack from a nation is great - there is no nation outside Iran and Syria that have the ability to do anything directly.
Syria is a whimp. Iran is a question mark.

But we do nothing about the militants that attack Israel - except to pat them on the head and say play nice (AGAIN)

And do they listen?
What we do(USA) is, we die on the front lines in New York, Afghanistan, and other places.

sorry if our blood and treasure isn't enough for you.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,510
0
76
What we do(USA) is, we die on the front lines in New York, Afghanistan, and other places.

sorry if our blood and treasure isn't enough for you.
He wasnt speaking that americans havent lost civilian lives, but imagine the threat of 9/11 EVERY DAY. every day there are countless terrorist attempts on Israel, and thankfully Israel has a good intelligence agency.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Where do you get $1.1 trillion ? As far as I know part of that is the bank bail out money which was started by GW Bush so it isn't "new". Another part is the stimulus which as far as I'm concerned has worked to avoid a catastrophic economic collapse.

I don't know if he propsed cutting NASA spending or reduced increases, my understanding is the propsed budget is $100 billion over 5 years, which is a lot of money.

And Obama's plan is to reduce the deficit as much a spossible without wrecking the economy
I have a bridge in NYC to sell you. Interested?
 

Danube

Banned
Dec 10, 2009
613
0
0
I can't find ANY credible evidence that the United States has "suspended" arms shipments to Israel. Prove it.

Thursday, March 18, 2010

The US has diverted a shipment of bunker-busters designated for Israel.

Officials said the U.S. military was ordered to divert a shipment of smart bunker-buster bombs from Israel to a military base in Diego Garcia. They said the shipment of 387 smart munitions had been slated to join pre-positioned U.S. military equipment in Israel Air Force bases. "This was a political decision," an official said.

In 2008, the United States approved an Israeli request for bunker-busters capable of destroying underground facilities, including Iranian nuclear weapons sites. Officials said delivery of the weapons was held up by the administration of President Barack Obama, Middle East Newsline reported.

Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E.

"All signs indicate that this will continue in 2010," a congressional source familiar with the Israeli military requests said. "This is really an embargo, but nobody talks about it publicly."

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/me_israel0217_03_18.asp

Egypt is getting Apaches from Obama
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
0
0
If those Helicopters and Bunker Busters where so vital for Israels protection then they'd stop with the Settlements.
Israel did, just for Obama.

It changed nothing.

I'm sorry but you can't expect 180,000 Jews who have lived in the WB for 2 generations to just stop having sex so the Pallies can have a Jew-free West Bank.

It's an absurd demand and inconsistent with the obligations of the peace process (ps: settlements have never been a precondition, ever).

It's total bullshit what Obama is doing. He is behaving like an immature little shit.

I guess Israel needs to start behaving like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia to win his affection.

Why now right, libtards these days fight amongst themseloves over who can suck the largest islamic dick because of their shared hatred of the West and Jewish rights.

Israel should have just nuked Egypt and Jordan in 1973. Then Obama wouldn't be able to extort and blackmail Israel on behalf of Arab oil.
 

Sclamoz

Guest
Sep 9, 2009
975
0
0
Thursday, March 18, 2010

The US has diverted a shipment of bunker-busters designated for Israel.

Officials said the U.S. military was ordered to divert a shipment of smart bunker-buster bombs from Israel to a military base in Diego Garcia. They said the shipment of 387 smart munitions had been slated to join pre-positioned U.S. military equipment in Israel Air Force bases. "This was a political decision," an official said.

In 2008, the United States approved an Israeli request for bunker-busters capable of destroying underground facilities, including Iranian nuclear weapons sites. Officials said delivery of the weapons was held up by the administration of President Barack Obama, Middle East Newsline reported.

Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E.

"All signs indicate that this will continue in 2010," a congressional source familiar with the Israeli military requests said. "This is really an embargo, but nobody talks about it publicly."

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/me_israel0217_03_18.asp

Egypt is getting Apaches from Obama
Actually Egypt is getting them from the US not Obama and has been getting military equipment and since before Obama came into office.

HIV said:
Israel did, just for Obama.

It changed nothing.

I'm sorry but you can't expect 180,000 Jews who have lived in the WB for 2 generations to just stop having sex so the Pallies can have a Jew-free West Bank.

It's an absurd demand and inconsistent with the obligations of the peace process (ps: settlements have never been a precondition, ever).
Israel didn't stop, that's the problem.

Just because Israel is overpopulated doesn't mean you can start building on others land. This is a great example of your really fucked up thinking on this issue.

And no more settlements has been part of the road map since 2003.

Phase I (as early as May 2003): End to Palestinian violence; Palestinian political reform; Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian cities and freeze on settlement expansion; Palestinian elections.
 
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Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
0
0
Actually Egypt is getting them from the US not Obama and has been getting military equipment and since before Obama came into office.
You are not listening.

You know how foreign military sales work?

Clearly you don't. Obama approved Apache sales to Egypt, but denied them to Israel.

Do the math.

Israel didn't stop, that's the problem.
Israel did stop as a "confidence-building measure" but it is under no obligation to castrate Jews of the WB.

Just because Israel is overpopulated doesn't mean you can start building on others land. This is a great example of your really fucked up thinking on this issue.
What other people land? What land is Palestinian?

I see no sovereign government. I see no capital. I see no parliament.

All I see is a bunch of bitchy Arabs using Israel as a lightening rod to cover up their own bullshit.

Jews building pizza huts in the desert is not an issue, it was never an issue, and never part of any negotiation.

And no more settlements has been part of the road map since 2003.

Phase I (as early as May 2003): End to Palestinian violence; Palestinian political reform; Israeli withdrawal from Palestinian cities and freeze on settlement expansion; Palestinian elections.
Yes, it has. But Palestinians have not stopped the incitement (as agreed in Oslo), nor have they reformed politically, nor have they stopped the violence or corruption.

And yes, Israel has withdrawn from cities. 95% of the Palestinian population lives under the Palestinian authority.

Major cities like Nablus and Ramallah are all Jew-free.

Israel accepted the road map and has fulfilled its conditions to the letter, including dismantling over 80 settlements and evicting 9,000 Jews from Gaza.

The Palestinians have refused to negotiate after Obama dubiously said Israel must stop settlement building 100% even after it already agreed to an 8 month freeze when Obama took office in the WB.

Obama is jerking Israel around and has no intention of demanding the Palestinians to honor their promises.

They don't have to do shit.

And now 100 million in MY TAX DOLLARS are going to the Palestinians.

Mother fuckers.
 

ciproxr

Senior member
Mar 26, 2005
770
0
0
not when Israel has innumerable amounts of intel of the soviets arsenals, made hundreds of fixes to american technology, a training area on IEDs for american soldiers, a guaranteed safe zone for any american ship, vessel, plane, vehicles. provided intel, as well as stop countless terror attacks against americans high on the table. ( just recently Israel, which completely should hate this guy, saved Jimmy Carter, in what would have been an ambush to kill him)


ALL for FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So does offering some aid to an ally hurt? no.

is 2 billion (i believe is the amount of aid) enough to keep the country protected? hell no.


so stop bitching about the aid given to Israel, when aid given to other countries have DIRECT links into the massacre of people.

Listen, half of these "benefits" are disputable and have happened over the course of the past 40 years and i can assure you was not worth 2 billion a year.


We dont need Israel, and i dont want my tax dollars going to Israel who violates human rights.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
0
0
Listen, half of these "benefits" are disputable and have happened over the course of the past 40 years and i can assure you was not worth 2 billion a year.


We dont need Israel, and i dont want my tax dollars going to Israel who violates human rights.
You're an idiot.

Hundreds of generals and well-respected intelligence officers, as well as every President (including Obama), can't deny the benefits of such a mutual relationship.

You have any idea how much fucking money waste a year in Iraq (36 billion), Pakistan (2 billion), Afghanistan (6 billion), Germany (5 billion), South Korea (7 billion), Egypt (2 billion), etc..etc..

At least Israel gives something back.

And a lot back.

And virtually all the money stays in the US and subsidies the defense industry.

It pays for itself, and 50,000 American jobs.

The amount is negligible.
 

Sclamoz

Guest
Sep 9, 2009
975
0
0
You are not listening.

You know how foreign military sales work?

Clearly you don't. Obama approved Apache sales to Egypt, but denied them to Israel.

Do the math.
Yes I do, but I was just making a point that flew over your insane head. We aren't required to sell Israel or anyone else Apaches. If they want them and billion dollar hand outs every year they need to cooperate. That's the point of programs like this to begin with, to exert US influence on other countries. If they don't want to cooperate they don't get the money and equipment. Its the same for Egypt Pakistan and Palestinians.

Israel did stop as a "confidence-building measure" but it is under no obligation to castrate Jews of the WB.
By your logic Palestinians aren't obligated to stop shooting rockets then right? Israel should just suck it up and negotiate and stop bitching about it?


What other people land? What land is Palestinian?

I see no sovereign government. I see no capital. I see no parliament.

All I see is a bunch of bitchy Arabs using Israel as a lightening rod to cover up their own bullshit.

Jews building pizza huts in the desert is not an issue, it was never an issue, and never part of any negotiation.


That certainly is a lot of pizza huts. Maybe you should stop with that stupid shit already?

What you see or don't see isn't a concern. The world doesn't recognize East Jerusalem as Israeli so none of that is relevant.

Basically what you're saying is Israel has stopped building settlements on Palestinian land because you don't recognize the existence of it which is just stupid.

Yes, it has. But Palestinians have not stopped the incitement (as agreed in Oslo), nor have they reformed politically, nor have they stopped the violence or corruption.

And yes, Israel has withdrawn from cities. 95% of the Palestinian population lives under the Palestinian authority.

Major cities like Nablus and Ramallah are all Jew-free.

Israel accepted the road map and has fulfilled its conditions to the letter, including dismantling over 80 settlements and evicting 9,000 Jews from Gaza.

The Palestinians have refused to negotiate after Obama dubiously said Israel must stop settlement building 100% even after it already agreed to an 8 month freeze when Obama took office in the WB.
Israel hasn't stopped the violence from their side, whether from the military or extremists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrzxiQFgym8
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1163045.html

So if Israel agreed to a freeze whats the problem? Oh right, a freeze *isn't* what was asked for and whats more that only applies to some areas but not others so its completely pointless!

Obama is jerking Israel around and has no intention of demanding the Palestinians to honor their promises.

They don't have to do shit.

And now 100 million in MY TAX DOLLARS are going to the Palestinians.

Mother fuckers.
Yeah yeah more Obama is a muslim bs we get it.

This a funny complaint from someone who doesn't want Israel do have to do anything. That disgust you feel about that 100 million dollars for Palestinians? Multiply that by 20 and you know how people feel about Israel.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
0
0
Yes I do, but I was just making a point that flew over your insane head. We aren't required to sell Israel or anyone else Apaches. If they want them and billion dollar hand outs every year they need to cooperate. That's the point of programs like this to begin with, to exert US influence on other countries. If they don't want to cooperate they don't get the money and equipment. Its the same for Egypt Pakistan and Palestinians.
You are not listening again.

Israel/US have long-standing agreements that cannot be sabotaged because Obama has a personal tiff with Zionism.

Israel is the only country that has compromised its own security to maintain a relationship with the USA.

Your criticism is predicated on a false premise - that Israel is just like every other ally, and it must do whatever the US demands of it even if it conflicts with HISTORY and the ISRAELI PEOPLE.

By your logic Palestinians aren't obligated to stop shooting rockets then right? Israel should just suck it up and negotiate and stop bitching about it?
What? Israel is under no obligation to somehow force Israelis in the WB to stop having children.

The Palestinians, on the other hand - are obligated, both morally and legally - to cease the violence, as they agreed in Oslo 1, 2, Madrid, etc..etc..

That certainly is a lot of pizza huts. Maybe you should stop with that stupid shit already?

What you see or don't see isn't a concern. The world doesn't recognize East Jerusalem as Israeli so none of that is relevant.
Maybe you should read my post and actual respond to it?

You said, "just because Israel is overpopulated doesn't mean it can build on other peoples land."

I said the Palestinians have no government, no capital, and no country. They have no sovereign rights.

Get it? Just because the world doesn't recognize East Jerusalem as Israel doesn't mean it isn't.

East Jerusalem is more Israel than anything else.

But it has never been part of some historic Palestine. Even in the original partition Jerusalem was supposed to be an international city.

Regardless, Israeli leadership since 1967 has openly stated Jerusalem is like Tel Aviv. It will never be divided, ever. It's status is pending final negotiations, but right now Israel under no obligation to somehow end construction in Jerusalem, especially when Arabs and Jews cannot find homes.

You are aware 1/3 of the planned settlements, or 17,000 homes, are earmarked for Arab residents, no?
Israel hasn't stopped the violence from their side, whether from the military or extremists.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wrzxiQFgym8
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1163045.html

So if Israel agreed to a freeze whats the problem? Oh right, a freeze *isn't* what was asked for and whats more that only applies to some areas but not others so its completely pointless!
You're a moron.

There was no "Israeli violence" stipulation in any peace process. Israel is a sovereign nation and has a right to self-defense. The Palestinians never disputed that.

Israel agreed to a negotiated peace which it largely lived up to, which is why the Palestinians have their own government, schools, hospitals, police, etc...etc...

Like I said, no Israelis live in the major Arab cities, no Israeli soldiers are marching in Gaza, ETC.

Tell me, what have the Palestinians done in return except make more bullshit demands?

Yeah yeah more Obama is a muslim bs we get it.
I never said Obama is a Muslim. I said he has rewarded the Palestinians with 100,000,000 in MY TAX DOLLARS for doing absolutely nothing.

Meanwhile, he is punishing Israel for being Israel, and gifting boatloads of weapons to Islamic dictatorships that hate our guts and sponsor foreign fighters in Afghanistan.

This a funny complaint from someone who doesn't want Israel do have to do anything. That disgust you feel about that 100 million dollars for Palestinians? Multiply that by 20 and you know how people feel about Israel.
Israel should be an ally of the USA - which it is.

The USA should be an ally of Israel, which right now it is not.

Israel has needs, troll. The money isn't siphoned away to pay for mansions in Paris and London or support elementary schools named after child suicide bombers.

Israel earns every penny. If I had it my way all the money we waste on the Muslim world should be diverted to Israel.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Why is it the only programs Obama really wants to cut are things that actually benefit us? I bet if we dared suggesting cutting money for the national endowment for the arts (or things like that) he'd say things like that need to stay even in a tough economy.
What actually is the benefit of space exploration? While it may helps us understand some mysteries of space it truly serves very little purpose. We don't have the technology or energy source to make "living in space" viable at this moment. So scaling back or reprioritzing makes sense.
 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,560
1
0
What actually is the benefit of space exploration? While it may helps us understand some mysteries of space it truly serves very little purpose. We don't have the technology or energy source to make "living in space" viable at this moment. So scaling back or reprioritzing makes sense.
The benefit of exploring space isn't just about what we discover out there, it's also about what we discover down here.

Considering all of the material, process, technological, logistical, and societal development and improvement that space travel/exploration depends on, I think it offers very tangible benefits to our American society in particular and the human race in general beyond what we find in space.
 

Freshgeardude

Diamond Member
Jul 31, 2006
4,510
0
76
Listen, half of these "benefits" are disputable and have happened over the course of the past 40 years and i can assure you was not worth 2 billion a year.


We dont need Israel, and i dont want my tax dollars going to Israel who violates human rights.
So israel violates human rights now. I see, after countless attacks on israel's civilan population, you expect them to do nothing?


you would rather have 100 million go to gaza, where their leaders, hamas, auction off food, have no freedom of speech, overcroud areas, go to farmers and basically force them to allow hamas to operate from their locations. having women and children on roofs of apartments as human shields which launch rockets at israeli civilians so Israel wont attack back?


or does protecting an ally we have had for 62 years and given billions in return all for free not cut it for you?
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
1
76
Thursday, March 18, 2010

The US has diverted a shipment of bunker-busters designated for Israel.

Officials said the U.S. military was ordered to divert a shipment of smart bunker-buster bombs from Israel to a military base in Diego Garcia. They said the shipment of 387 smart munitions had been slated to join pre-positioned U.S. military equipment in Israel Air Force bases. "This was a political decision," an official said.

In 2008, the United States approved an Israeli request for bunker-busters capable of destroying underground facilities, including Iranian nuclear weapons sites. Officials said delivery of the weapons was held up by the administration of President Barack Obama, Middle East Newsline reported.

Since taking office, Obama has refused to approve any major Israeli requests for U.S. weapons platforms or advanced systems. Officials said this included proposed Israeli procurement of AH-64D Apache attack helicopters, refueling systems, advanced munitions and data on a stealth variant of the F-15E.

"All signs indicate that this will continue in 2010," a congressional source familiar with the Israeli military requests said. "This is really an embargo, but nobody talks about it publicly."

http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/me_israel0217_03_18.asp

Egypt is getting Apaches from Obama
I said credible evidence.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,567
5
81
AFTER votes. He is the biggest liar to ever become president. the country forgave him too many times for all his little scandals. Hell, if Bush or clinton had at least one of the scandals attached to them, they never would have won any elections.
I thought that Clinton was the biggest liar ever to become President. That's what the right kept shouting all eight years that Clinton was in office. Or is "Liar! Liar!" just what the right says when "pinko commie socialist" gets stale?

And Clinton had plenty of scandals, and almost no one didn't believe they were true. Yet, if it had been legal, he'd definitely have won a third term as President.
 

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