We could always pass a constitutional amendment that expressly forbids something like this..... Oh wait, we already have one so fuck, I'm out of ideas. What you got?
We could always pass a constitutional amendment that expressly forbids something like this..... Oh wait, we already have one so fuck, I'm out of ideas. What you got?
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,219
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How can we have an amendment that already prohibits this when this technology didnt even exist then?
We should be pushing for an update on privacy laws regarding technology. The fact that employers can fire someone for a Facebook post and the governments massive data collection should tell us that the old privacy laws can't keep up.
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,265
- 126
I agree. My employer says you can't say anything not PC, can't swear, can't criticize the company, vendors or even the competition. Screw that.
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 27,279
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Heh, how about that.
Shouldn't be surprising really. The Cheney admin was so pro war, so anti-criticism at the time they weren't about to let titles and ethics get in the way of their 'unitary' powers.
If they spied on anti-invasion veterans, then spying on politicians of a different party is not a big deal.
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
- 76
What's ridiculous is that you assume Obama isn't doing the exact same thing -- even after EVERY indication on the planet is showing that he's not only the same, but worse...
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,219
- 14,906
- 136
kage69
Lifer
- Jul 17, 2003
- 27,279
- 36,399
- 136
You don't have a clue what I assume palehorse. My posts here in no way constitute the total sum of my views or beliefs.
But I did have hopes that someone so schooled in Constitutional law would steer away from this kind of drastic monitoring. The curmudgeon in me doubted that any admin would relinquish powers set in place by the previous guys, certainly not a complete end to it but maybe a new approach involving more oversight and less invasive means regarding citizens? Obama has pleasantly surprised me in some areas - this isn't one of them. For someone who disagreed with how the previous admin ran things, I def was expecting him to change course in a few areas.
Glad you've noticed EVERY indication that we're dealing with the same kinda critter. I obviously missed some so feel free to supply me with a link showing Obama practicing the Bush Doctrine with regards to unilateral action and preemptive war. Any pseudo-coalitions built with bribes? No, thankfully Obama has had a much better run with foreign policy than Bush (pretty low bar to have set though, admittedly).
I realize many of you can't stand Obama, that's fine, he's far from perfect, but I wonder if a lot of this outrage stems from the realization that, holy shit, this is the conversation we should have been having back in 2001. Those non Republicans might have been onto something!
Better late than never I suppose...
I feel Obama is on his way to Bush's level of suck at this rate, but he's not there yet. YMMV.
I fail to see any significant foreign policy moves that Obama has made.
Unless you bar, is basically 'do nothing'. Then on that count he's succeeded
palehorse
Lifer
- Dec 21, 2005
- 11,521
- 0
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So you say... and so HE says.
We shall see about that.
As even the primary author of the Patriot Act says, the law was never meant to be used in the fashion that it's being used (or abused?) today. Just as we learned with the whole water-boarding fiasco, an admin's interpretation and stretching of the "the law" is not always correct or justified. More often than not, their legal advisors tell them exactly what they want hear in order to feed their insatiable lust for power.
Then again, I wouldn't expect someone like you to understand or agree that Obama could be in the wrong... your veins are too over-filled with kool-aid.
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ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,219
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Seriously? Have you ignored everything I've said in this thread? Do you have such tunnel vision that you can't even see when someone politically opposite of you agrees on the principle of the issue?
It is you who is over filled with the hator-aid.
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,137
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I wonder if this is by design.
By this I mean having you, the American'tthinkforthemselves* people at each other's throats, engaging in finger pointing instead of getting together to stop something both sides agree is wrong and unconstitutional.
*Hopefully most Americans are smarter than this. I hope it doesn't get any worse.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled cheer leading, booing, hissing and finger painting/pointing squad.
By this I mean having you, the American'tthinkforthemselves* people at each other's throats, engaging in finger pointing instead of getting together to stop something both sides agree is wrong and unconstitutional.
*Hopefully most Americans are smarter than this. I hope it doesn't get any worse.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled cheer leading, booing, hissing and finger painting/pointing squad.
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
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This is why they want to take your guns away. Because they want to take total control and take the power away from the American people. They want to be able to overstep their bounds and ignore the constitution without fear of revolution.
They haven't forgotten how this country was founded in the first place. They just hope you have, or don't care.
Running to the enemy in exile and giving away national secrets is not the answer.
Wrestling power from the government by bloodshed or sending them ricin laced letters or death threats is not the right way to go about fixing this problem.
We must uphold the rule of law, while still fighting for our rights in any LEGAL means possible.
Fighting amongst ourselves will surely hamstring any hope of real change.
That's what the powers that be want.
Show them you're smarter than that.
They haven't forgotten how this country was founded in the first place. They just hope you have, or don't care.
Running to the enemy in exile and giving away national secrets is not the answer.
Wrestling power from the government by bloodshed or sending them ricin laced letters or death threats is not the right way to go about fixing this problem.
We must uphold the rule of law, while still fighting for our rights in any LEGAL means possible.
Fighting amongst ourselves will surely hamstring any hope of real change.
That's what the powers that be want.
Show them you're smarter than that.
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,219
- 14,906
- 136
Lol, read your previous post, government isn't trying to take your guns away.
Way to fall for the propaganda though.
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
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The government will continue to seize as much power as you will allow them to seize.
The only way to stop this is through peaceful protest.
Any act of violence will just demonstrate that you are not only no better than they are, but worse. Dangerous, stupid and untrustworthy. They will then feel justified in taking even more of your rights away. Dare I say they might be right to do so in that case.
You must demonstrate that you are better than that.
The only way to stop this is through peaceful protest.
Any act of violence will just demonstrate that you are not only no better than they are, but worse. Dangerous, stupid and untrustworthy. They will then feel justified in taking even more of your rights away. Dare I say they might be right to do so in that case.
You must demonstrate that you are better than that.
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,137
- 382
- 126
If you really believe that, you need to step away from P&N for a while and go read the news:
http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_new...te-house-has-not-given-up-on-gun-control?lite
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,219
- 14,906
- 136
disappoint
Lifer
- Dec 7, 2009
- 10,137
- 382
- 126
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,265
- 126
No , but why should we believe "don't trust wiretapping Presidents" Joe? Credibility he has not.
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,219
- 14,906
- 136
Hayabusa Rider
Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
- Jan 26, 2000
- 50,879
- 4,265
- 126
I guess it's a good thing presidents don't create laws then
I see what you did there
If there's some good here perhaps some will be less partisan and more skeptical. The die hatds will always find time to wander through the crowds saying "He's right you know" but freedom requires doubt, not faith, in leaders. As they say in Missouri "show me". All I hear is "trust us". I don't.
Why is the type of stuff relevant to the 4th amendment? Its pretty damn clear to me and was written broad enough to cover even todays technological advancements. What you are implying is that every time we have a new way to communicate we need to amend the constitution which is patently retarded.
I guess it's a good thing presidents don't create laws then
But he is the boss of the head of the NSA and could have stopped it the moment he entered office. He did not, he allowed the insane stretch in interpreting the law to be used and expanded.
And no matter what you say or want to believe this is not legal.
werepossum
Elite Member
- Jul 10, 2006
- 29,873
- 463
- 126
LOL +1
Hmm, the 2004 whistleblower who called Bush on his wiretapping international calls just happens to remember, nine years later when Obama is embroiled in a scandal for wiretapping domestic phone calls, that Bush was not only also wiretapping domestic phone calls but specifically wiretapping the Democrats? That seems awfully . . . convenient.
That level of coincidence is generally revealed by Dan Rather. Is he producing the Boiling Frogs show?
KlokWyze
Diamond Member
ivwshane
Lifer
- May 15, 2000
- 32,219
- 14,906
- 136
Clearly if the current laws aren't being applied to new technology then there is a problem.
Or do you not see any issues and think the president should do his own checks and balances on himself?
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