Obama myths debunked

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
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0
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/vid...09/fact.vs.fiction.cnn


Good to see CNN practicing responsible journalism and actually taking the risk of disturbing peoples beliefs on someone (always a risky move). Either way I hope more media picks this up and picks up responsible journalism. So far both McCain and Obama has been outstanding in keeping the slander to a minimum as well as keeping there parties in check.
 
Oct 27, 2007
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Yeah, these are the big issues. The flag pin, his religion and the hand on the heart. Who would give a fuck if any of these were true? These are the things that matter? Fucking hell Americans seem to get more stupid every day and it scares the shit out of me that idiots are electing the most powerful man in the world.
 

mxyzptlk

Golden Member
Apr 18, 2008
1,888
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0
Originally posted by: GodlessAstronomer
Yeah, these are the big issues. The flag pin, his religion and the hand on the heart. Who would give a fuck if any of these were true? These are the things that matter? Fucking hell Americans seem to get more stupid every day and it scares the shit out of me that idiots are electing the most powerful man in the world.

Agreed.

If these are the things people are picking their president over, then americans deserve what they get.
 

JS80

Lifer
Oct 24, 2005
26,271
7
81
so does the video deny Obama is a Marxist or is it just debunking something stupid like the flag pin?
 

RichardE

Banned
Dec 31, 2005
10,246
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0
Originally posted by: JS80
so does the video deny Obama is a Marxist or is it just debunking something stupid like the flag pin?

Do you even know what Marxism is or are you just spouting idealogical names to feel smart :laugh: seriously, do you even know?
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,726
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Thinking Obama is a Marxist requires either a shocking level of ignorance or deliberate dishonesty.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
#1 - Star spangled banner - Even arrogant sports stars put their hand(or hat) over their heart. Why didn't Obama? I think this "debunking" is a bit of a strawman. So it was the SSB instead of the pledge - does that change it all that much? Not that I care all that much about it but it does show a little lack of respect.

#2 Flag pin - For it before he was against in before he was(is) for it(sometimes). Hmmm... I don't much care except for his political posturing about it.

#3 Koran - never heard this one.

#4 Muslim school - Meh. Don't much care if it was or wasn't.

#5 Practicing muslim? Don't think I've heard this claim. Hell, we all know he was part of the radical "black power" church with a racist preacher. ;)

Overall I give the "debunking" a meh. Seems more like wasted journalism than actual journalism IMO. Find real news Mr."journalist". Sheesh
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Thinking Obama is a Marxist requires either a shocking level of ignorance or deliberate dishonesty.

Spreading FUD through deliberate dishonesty appears to be the Republican game-plan this election.
Almost none of the attacks are even remotely true, but it you take the easy 10 seconds to look up the real facts, then you're some kind of starry-eyed kool-aid drinker.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
#1 - Star spangled banner - Even arrogant sports stars put their hand(or hat) over their heart. Why didn't Obama? I think this "debunking" is a bit of a strawman. So it was the SSB instead of the pledge - does that change it all that much? Not that I care all that much about it but it does show a little lack of respect.

#2 Flag pin - For it before he was against in before he was(is) for it(sometimes). Hmmm... I don't much care except for his political posturing about it.

#3 Koran - never heard this one.

#4 Muslim school - Meh. Don't much care if it was or wasn't.

#5 Practicing muslim? Don't think I've heard this claim. Hell, we all know he was part of the radical "black power" church with a racist preacher. ;)

Overall I give the "debunking" a meh. Seems more like wasted journalism than actual journalism IMO. Find real news Mr."journalist". Sheesh

For a guy with "no horse in this race," you sure spend a lot of time getting involved in it.
 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
#1 - Star spangled banner - Even arrogant sports stars put their hand(or hat) over their heart. Why didn't Obama? I think this "debunking" is a bit of a strawman. So it was the SSB instead of the pledge - does that change it all that much? Not that I care all that much about it but it does show a little lack of respect.

#2 Flag pin - For it before he was against in before he was(is) for it(sometimes). Hmmm... I don't much care except for his political posturing about it.

#3 Koran - never heard this one.

#4 Muslim school - Meh. Don't much care if it was or wasn't.

#5 Practicing muslim? Don't think I've heard this claim. Hell, we all know he was part of the radical "black power" church with a racist preacher. ;)

Overall I give the "debunking" a meh. Seems more like wasted journalism than actual journalism IMO. Find real news Mr."journalist". Sheesh

For a guy with "no horse in this race," you sure spend a lot of time getting involved in it.

Yep, because I care about the US and I want to make sure people don't blindly follow someone just because they speak well. I dislike Obamarama and have never pretended that I didn't. Just because I don't have a horse doesn't mean I can't criticize or comment about Obama.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,808
83
91
I don't get why people go into conniptions for "omg he's not a muslim!!! :|" instead of just questioning "so what if he was?
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
Originally posted by: loki8481
I don't get why people go into conniptions for "omg he's not a muslim!!! :|" instead of just questioning "so what if he was?

The dishonesty?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
#1 - Star spangled banner - Even arrogant sports stars put their hand(or hat) over their heart. Why didn't Obama? I think this "debunking" is a bit of a strawman. So it was the SSB instead of the pledge - does that change it all that much? Not that I care all that much about it but it does show a little lack of respect.

#2 Flag pin - For it before he was against in before he was(is) for it(sometimes). Hmmm... I don't much care except for his political posturing about it.

#3 Koran - never heard this one.

#4 Muslim school - Meh. Don't much care if it was or wasn't.

#5 Practicing muslim? Don't think I've heard this claim. Hell, we all know he was part of the radical "black power" church with a racist preacher. ;)

Overall I give the "debunking" a meh. Seems more like wasted journalism than actual journalism IMO. Find real news Mr."journalist". Sheesh

For a guy with "no horse in this race," you sure spend a lot of time getting involved in it.

Yep, because I care about the US and I want to make sure people don't blindly follow someone just because they speak well. I dislike Obamarama and have never pretended that I didn't. Just because I don't have a horse doesn't mean I can't criticize or comment about Obama.

The "blind following" IMO is the crazed anti-Obamaramas like you spreading easily disproven lies in favor of your Republican "horse" (which you pretend not to have). You see, criticism actually requires at least some shred of proof, and I could find evidence of all those claims you say you've never heard of with an easy 10 minute search of these forums. The shit regular posted on other less-regulated (or perhaps more biased) forums is pretty astonishing.
But wait... that's Obamarama on my part, right? :roll:
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,133
38
91
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
#1 - Star spangled banner - Even arrogant sports stars put their hand(or hat) over their heart. Why didn't Obama? I think this "debunking" is a bit of a strawman. So it was the SSB instead of the pledge - does that change it all that much? Not that I care all that much about it but it does show a little lack of respect.

#2 Flag pin - For it before he was against in before he was(is) for it(sometimes). Hmmm... I don't much care except for his political posturing about it.

#3 Koran - never heard this one.

#4 Muslim school - Meh. Don't much care if it was or wasn't.

#5 Practicing muslim? Don't think I've heard this claim. Hell, we all know he was part of the radical "black power" church with a racist preacher. ;)

Overall I give the "debunking" a meh. Seems more like wasted journalism than actual journalism IMO. Find real news Mr."journalist". Sheesh

For a guy with "no horse in this race," you sure spend a lot of time getting involved in it.

Yep, because I care about the US and I want to make sure people don't blindly follow someone just because they speak well. I dislike Obamarama and have never pretended that I didn't. Just because I don't have a horse doesn't mean I can't criticize or comment about Obama.

Of course you do;)
 

Butterbean

Banned
Oct 12, 2006
918
1
0
Of course Obama is a Marxist - or a neo-Marxist more accurately. As usual people here pretending to know Marxism and declaring Obamas distance from it are all wet. His speeches and ideas constantly echo Marx, Alinsky, Gramsci, Che etc. - if you know these things yourself (and who would teach you? - the media? Haha). This is one reason Marxists, terrorists, racists and radicals around the world endorse him. The dark side of the force knows its own and they know what Obamja is about.

It's not even a secret Obama was trained in Alinksy methods (Radical Saul Alinsky wrote "Rules For Radicals") at the Alinsky-founded Industrial Areas Foundation (IAF) in Chicago - and that he taught classes in Alinsky methods (one of which is Rule 13" Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it." Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions.)

In "Rules for Radicals" Alinsky wrote, "There's another reason for working inside the system. Dostoevsky said that taking a new step is what people fear most. Any revolutionary change must be preceded by a passive, affirmative, non-challenging attitude toward change among the mass of our people. They must feel so frustrated, so defeated, so lost, so futureless in the prevailing system that they are willing to let go of the past and change the future. This acceptance is the reformation essential to any revolution." This is why the far left Democrats love high oil prices (we will socialize oil companies!) high health care (we will socialise health care!) and hoping for loss in a war (shame)

So you see why Obama always paints a bleak picture while offering very vague notions of change that is "about you..for you..in your moment..you are the one you been waiting for bla bla bla.

Alinsky emphasized in "Rules for Radicals" that the radicals of the Sixties were wrong for scaring potential converts in middle class America. True revolutionaries do not flaunt their radicalism - they cut their hair, put on suits and infiltrate the system from within. Alinsky viewed revolution as a slow, patient process. The trick was to penetrate existing institutions such as churches, unions and political parties (keep "Antonio Gramsci" in mind here).

One of Obama's early teachers in the Alinsky method was Mike Kruglik who said:

"He was a natural, the undisputed master of agitation, who could engage a room full of recruiting targets in a rapid-fire Socratic dialogue, nudging them to admit that they were not living up to their own standards. As with the panhandler, he could be aggressive and confrontational. With probing, sometimes personal questions, he would pinpoint the source of pain in their lives, tearing down their egos just enough before dangling a carrot of hope that they could make things better."

Of course Obama's Marxist roots go back way before Alinsky. The mysterious "Frank" he mentions as his Hawaiian mentor in "Dreams From My Father" is communist party member Frank Marshall Davis. This in itself might not mean much but since he chose to hide the name and now has 28 dozen other radicals hanging around in his life its another indicator of Obama's mind.

The Obama's though (and I include Michelle) are more neo-Marxists than classical Marxists. Che Guevara was more of a neo Marxist himself in that the dry economics of classical Marxism were not his main interest:

"I am not interested in dry economic socialism. We are fighting against misery, but we are also fighting against alienation. One of the fundamental objectives of Marxism is to remove interest, the factor of individual interest, and gain, from people?s psychological motivations. Marx was preoccupied both with economic factors and with their repercussions on the spirit. If communism isn?t interested in this too, it may be a method of distributing goods, but it will never be a revolutionary way of life."

Now focus on the word "alienation" because alienation is a big problem in the Marxist scheme of the world - and its one Michelle Obama harps on all the time. From one of her speeches:

" In 2008 we are still a nation too divided, we live in isolation and
fear one another, we dont know our neighbors, we dont talk, we believe
that our pain is our own, we dont realize the challenges of all of us
are the same, we are too isolated...

We have to compromise and sacrifice for one another, in order to get
things done..Barack Obama is only person in this race who understands
that before we can work on the problems we have we have to fix our
souls - our souls are broken..If we can't see ourselves in one another we will never make those sacrifices..Barack is going to demand that you come out of your division, that you come out of your isolation"


All that rubbish about being"isolated" from each other and needing to "sacrifice" for one another is soft sell Marxism. Che said the same things:

"The ultimate and most important revolutionary aspiration: to see human beings liberated from their alienation."

A person can understand why Che posters were hanging in the office of Maria Isabel - Obama's Houston campaign 'precinct captain, co-chair of the Houston Obama Leadership Team and close to the Obama's.

Economically, Obama's Marxism is seen in his big government centralization, taxes and wealth redistribution efforts like the Global Povery Tax that seeks to conform to the UN's Millennium Development Goals. The tax will commit the U.S. to spending 0.7 percent of gross national product on foreign aid, which amounts to "a 13-year total of $845 billion over and above what the U.S. already spends". Obama will be an absolute blood sucker on the US people (many of whom he hates but pretends not to).

If you want to understand Obama's neo-Marxist "cultural" implications they are seen in his appeals to "marginal people" and groups. Alinsky admired Antonio Gramsci the founder of the Italian Communist Party in the 20's.

Orthodox Marxism taught that there were groups who were privileged and groups that were oppressed economically. Gramsci shifted that paradigm to other groups using cultural factors instead of raw economic ones. He saw things like churches, schools, families etc as vehicles that maintained a "cultural hegemony" over peoples beliefs and actions. He proposed a "counter hegemony" to erode the established hegemony. He wanted to turn marginalized groups against established capitalist society and its culture.

Gramsci wrote: "The marginalized groups of history include not only the economically oppressed, but also women, racial minorities and many 'criminals.' What Marx called "the people," Gramsci called an "ensemble" of subordinate groups and classes. These groups - "the people" -- lack unity and, often, even consciousness of their own "oppression". To reverse power from the privileged to the "marginalized," was Gramsci's goal. Gramsci's idea were used by other Marxists and blended with psychology, sociology etc


In 1923, the Frankfurt School-a Marxist think-tank-was founded in Weimar Germany. The primary goal of the Frankfurt School was to translate Marxism from economic terms into cultural terms. It would provide the foundations on which to base a new political theory of revolution based on culture and new oppressed groups instead of proletariat.


It was Herbert Marcuse who favored including within Gramsci's new proletariat homosexuals, lesbians, and transsexuals. Into this was spliced Georg Lukacs radical sex education and psychological intimidation tactics - accusations, debasement, ridicule etc (see Alinsky tactics).

If you know Obama's neo-Marxism and that of his churches (both his black liberation [Marxist at the core]Trinity Church and the larger United Church of Christ it belongs too) it's plain to see Obama's neo Marxism at work.


Obama has a whole shtick about the oppression and liberation of "the other" and the "isolated" and "rejected" that is a religious facade for the neo-Marxist principles of using fringe groups to wage culture war, erode institutions, put marginal things at the center of social development etc (frustrate and degrade the many by focusing on rights for a few). Brainwashing kids and debasing/confusing them at an early age to make them cultural and political change agents is part of the whacked liberation churches are about - and Obama is not ignorant of it at all. Debasing the economy over global warming, homosexualizing the military, intentional use of judges to make laws that by pass the Constitution

Check out the commercials for the United Church of Christ (the larger church Obama's was a congregation of). You'll see the Aryan whites are the bad guys oppressing the homosexuals, the minorities, the cripples etc. Those commercials right there are the best illustration of neo-Marxist ideas being hidden as religion - much as Obama hides what he is really about. If he gets elected he'll bring change that is certain - then you'll see the face behind the mask

Ejected
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXCzzNoMeNs

Bouncer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hx1u1v7hAtY


 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,726
52,559
136
Butterbean, I would write you a response to that insane rant you just posted if I thought it would do the slightest thing to dent your psychosis. I just want you to know that your reasoning skills are extremely poor, and you show a lot of signs of dangerous paranoia.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Butterbean, I would write you a response to that insane rant you just posted if I thought it would do the slightest thing to dent your psychosis. I just want you to know that your reasoning skills are extremely poor, and you show a lot of signs of dangerous paranoia.

The 3 oddest things I've found about Butterbean's posts are that he (1) seems unaware that Marx's work was a whole hell of a lot more than just the Manifesto, (2) constantly confuses liberalism and Marxism as though they were one and the same, and (2) he seems to not only believe that a society in which various cultural pariah types, "homosexuals, the minorities, the cripples etc," are horribly oppressed is a good thing, but that we should naturally feel the same way too.

This is the 2nd post of his I have seen where he has brought up Antonio Gramsci who, while he might have been a communist, certainly did not deserve the punishment and suffering he received from Mussolini's fascist government simply for expressing his beliefs. That Butterbean appears to believe that he did proves that he is a fascist extremist of the worst kind. And you'll pardon me if I don't like being lectured about the dangerous of communism by a neo-nazi...
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,726
52,559
136
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Butterbean, I would write you a response to that insane rant you just posted if I thought it would do the slightest thing to dent your psychosis. I just want you to know that your reasoning skills are extremely poor, and you show a lot of signs of dangerous paranoia.

The 3 oddest things I've found about Butterbean's posts are that he (1) seems unaware that Marx's work was a whole hell of a lot more than just the Manifesto, (2) constantly confuses liberalism and Marxism as though they were one and the same, and (2) he seems to not only believe that a society in which various cultural pariah types, "homosexuals, the minorities, the cripples etc," are horribly oppressed is a good thing, but that we should naturally feel the same way too.

This is the 2nd post of his I have seen where he has brought up Antonio Gramsci who, while he might have been a communist, certainly did not deserve the punishment and suffering he received from Mussolini's fascist government simply for expressing his beliefs. That Butterbean appears to believe that he did proves that he is a fascist extremist of the worst kind. And you'll pardon me if I don't like being lectured about the dangerous of communism by a neo-nazi...

I genuinely think he's crazy. I'm not even kidding. He's also obsessed with homosexuality. Nearly every one of his posts ends up referencing homosexuals in some way, no matter how far flung the topic.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Butterbean, I would write you a response to that insane rant you just posted if I thought it would do the slightest thing to dent your psychosis. I just want you to know that your reasoning skills are extremely poor, and you show a lot of signs of dangerous paranoia.

The 3 oddest things I've found about Butterbean's posts are that he (1) seems unaware that Marx's work was a whole hell of a lot more than just the Manifesto, (2) constantly confuses liberalism and Marxism as though they were one and the same, and (2) he seems to not only believe that a society in which various cultural pariah types, "homosexuals, the minorities, the cripples etc," are horribly oppressed is a good thing, but that we should naturally feel the same way too.

This is the 2nd post of his I have seen where he has brought up Antonio Gramsci who, while he might have been a communist, certainly did not deserve the punishment and suffering he received from Mussolini's fascist government simply for expressing his beliefs. That Butterbean appears to believe that he did proves that he is a fascist extremist of the worst kind. And you'll pardon me if I don't like being lectured about the dangerous of communism by a neo-nazi...

I genuinely think he's crazy. I'm not even kidding. He's also obsessed with homosexuality. Nearly every one of his posts ends up referencing homosexuals in some way, no matter how far flung the topic.

I've come to wonder if it isn't some extremely subtle sarcasm or something to that effect. If so, that would be a trolling worthy of respect.

Otherwise, the "blending" of "marginalized groups" into mainstream society is a goal of MANY political ideologies besides just Marxism, including the liberal enlightenment ideology that guided this country's Founding Fathers. Essentially any and all non-authoritarian political ideologies are going to believe that government is required to demonstrate legitimate cause before acting adversely against ANY individual citizen, regardless of background, and that basic rights and liberties apply equally to all. And yes, that means homosexuals will have the same basic rights and liberties as you do. Get over it, that alone is not Marxism.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
Originally posted by: bamacre
I think my horse is actually a three-legged pony. :(

Don't forget who it was that took his leg off.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
86,726
52,559
136
Originally posted by: Vic

I've come to wonder if it isn't some extremely subtle sarcasm or something to that effect. If so, that would be a trolling worthy of respect.

Otherwise, the "blending" of "marginalized groups" into mainstream society is a goal of MANY political ideologies besides just Marxism, including the liberal enlightenment ideology that guided this country's Founding Fathers. Essentially any and all non-authoritarian political ideologies are going to believe that government is required to demonstrate legitimate cause before acting adversely against ANY individual citizen, regardless of background, and that basic rights and liberties apply equally to all. And yes, that means homosexuals will have the same basic rights and liberties as you do. Get over it, that alone is not Marxism.

Ok, if he's trolling my hat is certainly off to him. I would be very impressed.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,803
6,518
126
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Butterbean, I would write you a response to that insane rant you just posted if I thought it would do the slightest thing to dent your psychosis. I just want you to know that your reasoning skills are extremely poor, and you show a lot of signs of dangerous paranoia.

I believe you are right about being unable to dent his psychosis. He is wonderfully self-rationalized and completely blind to his illness. One of the best cases I've ever seen.
 

Butterbean

Banned
Oct 12, 2006
918
1
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
Butterbean, I would write you a response to that insane rant you just posted if I thought it would do the slightest thing to dent your psychosis. I just want you to know that your reasoning skills are extremely poor, and you show a lot of signs of dangerous paranoia.

Left you stumped again eski? Again?