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Obama = More Trustworthy...Clinton not even close?!

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
This is not only for NH but Iowa as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/P...nit/1051a1IowaDems.pdf

"Honesty and Directness"
Obama: 76%
Edwards: 73%
Clinton: 50%

Okay let me get this right, Clinton is most likely (currently) the next president of the USA according to these 'polls', but Obama is the most trustworthy by over 25%.... so we are voting for someone we don't trust....?!

Alright that does it... how the.. please for the love of... tell me what the connection is.

Edit: If it's experience, I believe Obama put it best when he said: "No one had a longer resume than Dick Cheney, and look what happened."
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
People don't expect trustworthiness out of politicians. We lost that expectation 30 years ago. We just want them to lie to us well enough that we don't find out.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
73,370
25,126
136
Originally posted by: Coldkilla
This is not only for NH but Iowa as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/P...nit/1051a1IowaDems.pdf

"Honesty and Directness"
Obama: 76%
Edwards: 73%
Clinton: 50%

Okay let me get this right, Clinton is most likely (currently) the next president of the USA according to these 'polls', but Obama is the most trustworthy by over 25%.... so we are voting for someone we don't trust....?!

Alright that does it... how the.. please for the love of... tell me what the connection is.

Edit: If it's experience, I believe Obama put it best when he said: "No one had a longer resume than Dick Cheney, and look what happened."
A good amount of it is electability. People believe Hillary will win, they aren't so sure that Obama will. At this point people are willing to take a candidate they mostly agree with but who has some problems (Hillary) over a candidate they like better (Obama) because of this.

In some ways I agree with them, people voting ideologically probably weakened Gore enough in 2000 to let Bush win and look at the catastrophe that ensued. Now nobody is willing to take any chances with letting another Republican in the White House, and so we have Hillary. She might not be great, but compared to the Republican candidates... jesus.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: Nebor
People don't expect trustworthiness out of politicians. We lost that expectation 30 years ago. We just want them to lie to us well enough that we don't find out.
Heh, I'm not even sure if we expect THAT much from them. My experience suggests we treat political figures more like advertisers, we don't really care about them so much as we care about how they make us feel about ourselves. It lines up pretty nicely with the increasingly crappy, but also increasingly pandering, ways we get our news. Whatever problems the mass media might have, I think most reasonable people can agree that moving to rabidly partisan blogs is not a step in the right direction.

Yet while we castigate the media and politicians for their lack of trustworthiness, we move more and more towards people who aren't even close. "Trustworthiness" is the kind of thing everyone things they are SUPPOSED to like, but I don't think they really do.
 

Coldkilla

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2004
3,944
0
71
Meh, I trust Obama. He really wants it. He probably wont win, but it wont be a wasted vote.
 

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
5
81
Originally posted by: eskimospy
A good amount of it is electability. People believe Hillary will win, they aren't so sure that Obama will. At this point people are willing to take a candidate they mostly agree with but who has some problems (Hillary) over a candidate they like better (Obama) because of this.
I love the "electable" argument. Think back to 2004; John Kerry sewed up the Democratic nomination because he was the most "electable" of the candidates. That certainly worked out well. didn't it? Clinton and Giuliani are the two most "electable" candidates of each party. Heaven help the Republic if either of them gets the keys to the White House.
 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: scott
People buy whatever the media controllers decide to sell to them.
They've colluded to sell us Hillary the utterly corrupt scum bag.
QFT. :thumbsup:



 

eilute

Senior member
Jun 1, 2005
477
0
0
Experience wouldn't have prevented the Iraq quagmire. Knowledge of history, such as the great many occupations in Africa and Asia, would have.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: jhbball
I've still never met a single Hillary supporter to this day.
Probably because people supporting a front runner generally aren't as rabid as those who need to claw their way to the top spots. But in NY there are plenty of people with Hillary buttons, etc. Frankly I don't care which Dem wins as long as they win.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: jhbball
I've still never met a single Hillary supporter to this day.
Probably because people supporting a front runner generally aren't as rabid as those who need to claw their way to the top spots. But in NY there are plenty of people with Hillary buttons, etc. Frankly I don't care which Dem wins as long as they win.
You sound like every R in the 2000 election.

I think that is a horrible mindset and a huge reason why we are in the mess/state that we are today.

Stop being partisan and start being smart. Vote for the person that is going to do the most good for the most people and most in line with the views/stances that you stand for....Dem or Repub.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: Coldkilla
This is not only for NH but Iowa as well.

http://abcnews.go.com/images/P...nit/1051a1IowaDems.pdf

"Honesty and Directness"
Obama: 76%
Edwards: 73%
Clinton: 50%

Okay let me get this right, Clinton is most likely (currently) the next president of the USA according to these 'polls', but Obama is the most trustworthy by over 25%.... so we are voting for someone we don't trust....?!

Alright that does it... how the.. please for the love of... tell me what the connection is.

Edit: If it's experience, I believe Obama put it best when he said: "No one had a longer resume than Dick Cheney, and look what happened."
(Note, I had some trouble with the pdf you linked)

Yeah, I noticed this last week. When I looked into it seemed the polls are two different things - one Iowa and the other national.

I believe the Iowa people are paying more attention than the rest of the nation. They think Obama is more trustworthy etc. I also think it likely that Obama will win there (particularly if Edwards et al lose any support - I see them going to "O", not HRC).

If "O" wins Iowa, might be that the rest of the nation eventually goes the way of Iowa.

HRC's invincibility has been tarnished, and I see "O" making progress in dispelling the myth that HRC has any real experience.

"The Emperor has no clothes".

Fern
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
1
76
politicians are like lawyers, the ones that can lie best are the most successful ones...

ie, presidential candidates are damn good liars....and the president is like the Supreme Commander of Lieing

slightly off-topic, but isn't Hillary and Edwards both lawyers? :p
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Nitemare
politicians are like lawyers, the ones that can lie best are the most successful ones...

ie, presidential candidates are damn good liars....and the president is like the Supreme Commander of Lieing

slightly off-topic, but isn't Hillary and Edwards both lawyers? :p
isn't like every president ever a lawyer? :p
 

alchemize

Lifer
Mar 24, 2000
11,489
0
0
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: jhbball
I've still never met a single Hillary supporter to this day.
Probably because people supporting a front runner generally aren't as rabid as those who need to claw their way to the top spots. But in NY there are plenty of people with Hillary buttons, etc. Frankly I don't care which Dem wins as long as they win.
You sound like every R in the 2000 election.

I think that is a horrible mindset and a huge reason why we are in the mess/state that we are today.

Stop being partisan and start being smart. Vote for the person that is going to do the most good for the most people and most in line with the views/stances that you stand for....Dem or Repub.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: jhbball
I've still never met a single Hillary supporter to this day.
Probably because people supporting a front runner generally aren't as rabid as those who need to claw their way to the top spots. But in NY there are plenty of people with Hillary buttons, etc. Frankly I don't care which Dem wins as long as they win.
You sound like every R in the 2000 election.

I think that is a horrible mindset and a huge reason why we are in the mess/state that we are today.

Stop being partisan and start being smart. Vote for the person that is going to do the most good for the most people and most in line with the views/stances that you stand for....Dem or Repub.
You have something against voting for a party that most closely alligns with the issues you feel are important? I'm pro-choice, pro-separation of church/state, pro-science, believe in GW, pro-gay rights/marriage, pro-expanded healthcare coverage, etc etc etc. Even the right-most dem is to the left of the leftmost rep on these issues. And don't forget the legacy president's leave behind on SCOTUS and the federal benches across the country. I am in favor of judges from liberal backgrounds just as conservatives want conservative judges.

There's nothing wrong with being partisan if you oppose almost every social issue the other side is in favor of. Let the judges be impartial. I'm a voter and I pick sides. Sorry.
 

Nitemare

Lifer
Feb 8, 2001
35,466
1
76
Originally posted by: alchemize
The Clinton News Network has a link on the front page..."Was Obama too honest about drugs?"
Yeah Obama gets kudos from me on that....


I did not inhale....ROFFLES.....
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: jhbball
I've still never met a single Hillary supporter to this day.
Probably because people supporting a front runner generally aren't as rabid as those who need to claw their way to the top spots. But in NY there are plenty of people with Hillary buttons, etc. Frankly I don't care which Dem wins as long as they win.
You sound like every R in the 2000 election.

I think that is a horrible mindset and a huge reason why we are in the mess/state that we are today.

Stop being partisan and start being smart. Vote for the person that is going to do the most good for the most people and most in line with the views/stances that you stand for....Dem or Repub.
You have something against voting for a party that most closely alligns with the issues you feel are important? I'm pro-choice, pro-separation of church/state, pro-science, believe in GW, pro-gay rights/marriage, pro-expanded healthcare coverage, etc etc etc. Even the right-most dem is to the left of the leftmost rep on these issues. And don't forget the legacy president's leave behind on SCOTUS and the federal benches across the country. I am in favor of judges from liberal backgrounds just as conservatives want conservative judges.

There's nothing wrong with being partisan if you oppose almost every social issue the other side is in favor of. Let the judges be impartial. I'm a voter and I pick sides. Sorry.
I think that you are confusing what people believe in and what they would push for. Romney believes in a lot of things as a Mormon but didn't attempt to push those beliefs upon the people of Mass. Hell, ol' Mitt even ordered town clerks to begin issuing marriage licenses to gays.

Just because someone says that they believe something that you don't....doesn't mean that they are going to attempt to force those beliefs upon you and just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean that they will stand up for those beliefs.
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: RightIsWrong
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: jhbball
I've still never met a single Hillary supporter to this day.
Probably because people supporting a front runner generally aren't as rabid as those who need to claw their way to the top spots. But in NY there are plenty of people with Hillary buttons, etc. Frankly I don't care which Dem wins as long as they win.
You sound like every R in the 2000 election.

I think that is a horrible mindset and a huge reason why we are in the mess/state that we are today.

Stop being partisan and start being smart. Vote for the person that is going to do the most good for the most people and most in line with the views/stances that you stand for....Dem or Repub.
You have something against voting for a party that most closely alligns with the issues you feel are important? I'm pro-choice, pro-separation of church/state, pro-science, believe in GW, pro-gay rights/marriage, pro-expanded healthcare coverage, etc etc etc. Even the right-most dem is to the left of the leftmost rep on these issues. And don't forget the legacy president's leave behind on SCOTUS and the federal benches across the country. I am in favor of judges from liberal backgrounds just as conservatives want conservative judges.

There's nothing wrong with being partisan if you oppose almost every social issue the other side is in favor of. Let the judges be impartial. I'm a voter and I pick sides. Sorry.
I think that you are confusing what people believe in and what they would push for. Romney believes in a lot of things as a Mormon but didn't attempt to push those beliefs upon the people of Mass. Hell, ol' Mitt even ordered town clerks to begin issuing marriage licenses to gays.

Just because someone says that they believe something that you don't....doesn't mean that they are going to attempt to force those beliefs upon you and just because someone agrees with you doesn't mean that they will stand up for those beliefs.
Agree on those points, but I was including the current field of Reps as people that would not get my vote for other reasons besides them just being Reps. i.e. Romney lost me when he put his dog on his roof for a road trip, and he wants to "double Guantanamo." We have no idea where he really stands as all of his positions for the past 20 years somehow swung sharply to the right just as he began his presidential bid. Giuliani has earned his Ghouliani moniker, and as a NYC resident, he isn't a new phenomenon to me. McCain wouldn't be horrible but he's really getting old, and I'm bothered by his selling out to the religious folks he labeled as part of the problem in America just a few years ago. Paul essentially wants to dismantle the fed govt. Huckabee is very likeable, but also lately he's been really pushing the religiousity button. His latest ad is disturbing.

All these guys are also more likely than any dem to appoint conservative judges, and if they don't actively support a conservative agenda they'd alienate their base and not get a shot at a second term.

So while I have an overall strong preference for a Dem pres, and think Hillary or Obama would be more than capable in the position (GW has proved anyone can be pres), I have specific reasons why I wouldn't go with any of the Reps also.
 

RightIsWrong

Diamond Member
Apr 29, 2005
5,649
0
0
That I can completely understand and agree with. The only Repub that I could vote for right now is Romney because he is a businessman first and foremost. He has shown a propensity for compromise and will not allow us to be the fiscal train wreck that we currently are.

I personally think that Obama is the best person for the job and would vote for him if I could in the primary. Hopefully I will get the chance in the general.
 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,501
1
81
People make choices based on more than just one parameter.

Individuals who are saying that the voter is a stupid led sheep, did you say the same thing in 2004 or 2000?
 

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