Obama is down for nuclear power, can I get a hell yea?

[wiretap]

I hope people don't have glow watches, or glow remotes, smoke alarms, or anything like that. There's more radioactive material in those than that's found in the ground around nuclear plants.

 

[DisgruntledVirus]

27 out of 104 nuclear power plants have levels of Tritium contamination. That makes for some yummy drinking water.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100201/ap_on_bi_ge/us_leaking_nuclear_plants

MONTPELIER, Vt. – Radioactive tritium, a carcinogen discovered in potentially dangerous levels in groundwater at the Vermont Yankee nuclear plant, has now tainted at least 27 of the nation's 104 nuclear reactors — raising concerns about how it is escaping from the aging nuclear plants.

The leaks — many from deteriorating underground pipes — come as the nuclear industry is seeking and obtaining federal license renewals, casting itself as a clean-green alternative to power plants that burn fossil fuels.

Tritium is a non-issue. It lasts 14-17 days inside the human body, and as was pointed out it's not "in the wild" and still on the power plants side of their protective barriers.

Oh, and it's half life is ~12 years. Not too worried personally, but definitely appreciate the alarmist "OMG WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE FROM NUCLEAR RADIATION!!!!!!1111" link.

Self-powered lighting

Main article: Self-powered lighting
The emitted electrons from small amounts of tritium cause phosphors to glow so as to make self-powered lighting devices called betalights, which are now used in watches, exit signs, and a variety of other devices. This takes the place of radium, which can cause bone cancer and has been banned in most countries for decades. Commercial demand for tritium is 400 grams per year.[4]

Firearms night sights

The radioactive decay of tritium is used in firearms night sights in much the same way as the clock hands discussed above. The electrons emitted by the radioactive decay of the tritium cause phosphor to glow, thus providing a long lasting (several years) and non-battery powered firearms sight which is visible in dim lighting conditions. The tritium glow is not noticeable in bright conditions such as during daylight however. As a result, some manufacturers have started to integrate fiber optic sights with tritium vials to provide bright, high-contrast firearms sights in both bright and dim conditions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tritium

 

[OutHouse]

How about a collective HELL, NO! WE WON'T GLOW!

Until there's a way to provide 100% guaranteed failsafe protection against sabotage and operator stupidity and to deal with leaks and radioactive waste, one failure can kill thousands if not millions of people and render an area the size of a mid-sized state uninhabitable for centuries.

It may be possible... someday, but it is not, now.

i agree.

 

[OutHouse]

I hope people don't have glow watches, or glow remotes, smoke alarms, or anything like that. There's more radioactive material in those than that's found in the ground around nuclear plants.

Chernobyl?

 

[OutHouse]

tornado vs oil refinery....who wins?
tornado vs solor....who wins?
tornado vs coal plant....who wins?


you vs logic.. who wins? NOT YOU

none of those will will produce a china syndrome if they are taken out.

 

[wiretap]

Chernobyl?

none of those will will produce a china syndrome if they are taken out.

What about Chernobyl. It was a positive void coefficient reactor with no containment structure, and their staff was ordered by communist rule to undergo max power limit testing with all the safety systems manually turned off. Looking back on it, it looks like they purposely did it.

China syndrome = lol. We've had fuel melting incidents in the US.. including at the decommissioned plant next to the one I work at. No China syndrome.

 

[Zargon]

Chernobyl?

such outdated tech and no containment dome.

the theory is(or was last time I read up on it) that with a containment dome it would have bascically been a non-event in that the radiation would have been contained inside the dome just fine(but that may not be correct, I could be remembering wrong)

 

[K1052]

such outdated tech and no containment dome.

the theory is(or was last time I read up on it) that with a containment dome it would have bascically been a non-event in that the radiation would have been contained inside the dome just fine(but that may not be correct, I could be remembering wrong)

It may not have totally held pressure but it would have kept the core from turning into a highly radioactive shotgun round across the Ukrainian countryside.

 

[QuantumPion]

After looking into this news a bit, I have concluded that in fact Obama is 100% against new nuclear power and this is just a ruse to boost him politically.

What Obama has done is created a panel, filled with 3/4 anti-nuclear politicians, to debate over the next 2 years the future of nuclear power, with the pre-condition that geological storage is off the table. In other words, it is a bunch of dilly-dallying bullcrap meant to make the anti-nukes feel good that there will never be any new nukes and simultaneously make the pro-nukes feel good because he is ostensibly doing something about the issue.

 

[Nitemare]

How about a collective HELL, NO! WE WON'T GLOW!

Until there's a way to provide 100% guaranteed failsafe protection against sabotage and operator stupidity and to deal with leaks and radioactive waste, one failure can kill thousands if not millions of people and render an area the size of a mid-sized state uninhabitable for centuries.

It may be possible... someday, but it is not, now.

We have them on subs and naval vessels as well as alot of University campuses. They are far safer than continuing to throw money to the Middle East for their oil.

 

[Infohawk]

hell yeah

 

[K1052]

After looking into this news a bit, I have concluded that in fact Obama is 100% against new nuclear power and this is just a ruse to boost him politically.

What Obama has done is created a panel, filled with 3/4 anti-nuclear politicians, to debate over the next 2 years the future of nuclear power, with the pre-condition that geological storage is off the table. In other words, it is a bunch of dilly-dallying bullcrap meant to make the anti-nukes feel good that there will never be any new nukes and simultaneously make the pro-nukes feel good because he is ostensibly doing something about the issue.

That panel is to address the waste issue, while it will likely do nothing that isn't any different than what's going on now. He did increase the loan guarantees available for new nuclear construction by a substantial amount (triple) while hitting the tax breaks fossil generators get.

 

[woolfe9999]

I'll add this article from today to the thread since it is relevant to the topic:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35421517/ns/business-oil_and_energy/

Obama approved $8 billion in federal loan guarentees to fund a new plant.

- wolf

 

[IGBT]

but what will the eco-KOOK bill cost?? what was done to make this happen? will it get caught up in endless eco-KOOK litigation?

 

[soccerballtux]

That panel is to address the waste issue, while it will likely do nothing that isn't any different than what's going on now. He did increase the loan guarantees available for new nuclear construction by a substantial amount (triple) while hitting the tax breaks fossil generators get.

any talk about thorium reactors?

 

[K1052]

but what will the eco-KOOK bill cost?? what was done to make this happen? will it get caught up in endless eco-KOOK litigation?

Once the NRC issues the Combined Construction and Operating License for the new unit the challenges that can be brought to stop construction are pretty limited. Since pretty much all the plans I've seen include adding units to existing plant sites (which many were selected with this purpose in mind) local opposition should be relatively minimal.

 

[classy]

He doesn't support them. Notice the word choice he used.. "safe, clean nuclear energy". In his opinion, none of the options for nuclear power that produce electricity today are safe or clean. Politicians love using careful word choices like that so they confuse the masses and can always have a fall back when their fringe activist groups and special interests question them. Oh.. by safe and clean I meant something that doesn't exist today... Same old bullshit the left side of the aisle has been pulling for years. I work in the nuclear power industry, so I try keeping on top of the news and politics that affects my job.

You're full of it. He must support them or how else do you explain the commitment of 8 billion in loans, another loan guarantee that will commit upwards of 50+ billion to build 6-7 Nuclear plants. If he doesn't support them, he has got a funny way of showing it.

 

[wiretap]

I'll add this article from today to the thread since it is relevant to the topic:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35421517/ns/business-oil_and_energy/

Obama approved $8 billion in federal loan guarentees to fund a new plant.

- wolf

Loan guarantees mean nothing, especially $8B which will hardly even cover the cost of one plant. We have over a dozen applications in the process for companies wanting to build the new plants. It's the government bureaucratic process slowing us down. It takes a good 8 years from application to licensing to breaking ground.. that's after a reactor and plant design is already pre-approved. The breaking ground and building process is a whole separate timeline. Even after you get the plant built and undergo successful powered testing phases, the government can say.. sorry, we'll have no place to put your spent fuel, you have to shut down.

 

[wiretap]

You're full of it. He must support them or how else do you explain the commitment of 8 billion in loans, another loan guarantee that will commit upwards of 50+ billion to build 6-7 Nuclear plants. If he doesn't support them, he has got a funny way of showing it.

Yes, I'm full of it. He's the one that says he only supports 'safe and clean' nuclear power. He doesn't support anywhere to store the waste, thus it isn't 'safe and clean'. Learn to read politicians for what their policies and ideologies are, not get caught up in how smooth of talkers they are. I work in the nuclear industry and I've been following it for years. This is what they all say. Without a place to store the 'waste' (actually re-usable fuel), they call it unsafe and not clean.

Instead of putting government cheese out there to make the public think he's in support of nuclear power, he should be putting a team together to finalize Yucca Mountain and open some reprocessing facilities.

 

[K1052]

any talk about thorium reactors?

not that I'm aware of right now, though if the Canadians ever got interested I'm sure the they could license the ACANDU here for us to mess with

 

[K1052]

Loan guarantees mean nothing, especially $8B which will hardly even cover the cost of one plant. We have over a dozen applications in the process for companies wanting to build the new plants. It's the government bureaucratic process slowing us down. It takes a good 8 years from application to licensing to breaking ground.. that's after a reactor and plant design is already pre-approved. The breaking ground and building process is a whole separate timeline. Even after you get the plant built and undergo successful powered testing phases, the government can say.. sorry, we'll have no place to put your spent fuel, you have to shut down.

That's $8B on top of the $18.5B already available and he had budgeted an increase to $54.5B for 2011.

 

[bfdd]

What about Chernobyl. It was a positive void coefficient reactor with no containment structure, and their staff was ordered by communist rule to undergo max power limit testing with all the safety systems manually turned off. Looking back on it, it looks like they purposely did it.

China syndrome = lol. We've had fuel melting incidents in the US.. including at the decommissioned plant next to the one I work at. No China syndrome.

Always cracks me up when people bring up Chernobyl and have no idea how or why it happened.

 

[wiretap]

That's $8B on top of the $18.5B already available and he had budgeted an increase to $54.5B for 2011.

The money will just get wasted so long as they don't open a national repository for spent fuel. But hey, spend spend spend.

 

[K1052]

The money will just get wasted so long as they don't open a national repository for spent fuel. But hey, spend spend spend.

Instead of wasting money on Yucca Mtn i'd prefer the following

1) build a fleet of Advanced CANDUs under DOE control to burn up most of the LWR waste

2) vitrify whatever is left and place in sealed containers

3) permanently store containers at the Waste Isolation Pilot Plant where the .mil waste goes

 

[wiretap]

Reprocessing and re-use of the current spent fuel is the way to go, but we still need a place for storage. Our plant just had to resort to building an on-site dry cask storage lot because our fuel pool is full. Most plans around the nation are in the same boat.