Obama is down for nuclear power, can I get a hell yea?

[QuantumPion]

several nuclear reactors have been hit by tornadoes. A tornado is one of the design basis accidents a nuclear plant is designed to withstand.

On an unrelated note, all those talking about crazy reactor designs like molten salt reactors need to get on the reality train here. The cost of such a reactor would be FAR to expensive to compete with coal or even natural gas. I think some people need to actually go and look at a nuclear plant to understand it isn't a very high tech sort of place. Everything used at a nuke plant has been considered obsolete for 30 years in the commercial field and equipment isn't maintained nearly as well as you might think in order to try and keep costs down. Stuff is constantly breaking down or leaking etc.

Yeesh, I'd like to know what plant you work for. All of the plants we operate are in tip top shape as far as maintenance and equipment and technology is concerned. The only parts of the plant that might seem obsolete are the 70's era computer control circuits, but there is no reason to replace these, they are reliable and work.

 

[Hacp]

Nuclear, gas, oil, coal, we need to use ALL our energy options.

 

[K1052]

nuclear seems like the greenest energy option for us right now, aside from wind and solar, which doesnt' produce nearly as much power as a nuke plant would.

these are legit questions that i dont know the answer to-

isn't it true that pollution from a coal powerplant is an order of magnitude worse than pollution from automobiles? and how clean is clean coal power plants?

There is some nasty shit locked up in coal like mercury and radium which ends up in the environment.

There are a lot of ideas for clean coal plants but they are complicated and problematic to operate. There are a few pilot plants but the technology requires substantially increases the cost of the energy, thereby almost negating coal's best attribute...low price.

 

[QuantumPion]

yeah the grids out west and out east are total garbage.

The grids aren't garbage. What they are is near max capacity. However, the market is regulated, the state governments are unwilling to allow for electric rate increases to pay for the high capital cost of new transmission capacity. Customers have voted with their wallets, they would rather have cheaper energy now and let their kids pay for it in the decades to come.

 

[Hacp]

There is some nasty shit locked up in coal like mercury and radium which ends up in the environment.

There are a lot of ideas for clean coal plants but they are complicated and problematic to operate. There are a few pilot plants but the technology requires substantially increases the cost of the energy, thereby almost negating coal's best attribute...low price.

Don't power companies already filter out all the environmentally damaing stuff alreadY? The only thing people object to about coal is CO2, which is stupid.

 

[Hacp]

The grids aren't garbage. What they are is near max capacity. However, the market is regulated, the state governments are unwilling to allow for electric rate increases to pay for the high capital cost of new transmission capacity. Customers have voted with their wallets, they would rather have cheaper energy now and let their kids pay for it in the decades to come.

Its a 2 way street there. The power companies are government monopolies. You can't just start a new power company that run a line through people's houses. You'll get arrested . Thats why there needs to be regulation.

 

[wiretap]

It is unlikely this time around since nuclear power is again considered a favorable choice by the public and the new reactors will be built at existing sites.

It doesn't matter.. it's all about who is in power at the time.

 

[QuantumPion]

Its a 2 way street there. The power companies are government monopolies. You can't just start a new power company that run a line through people's houses. You'll get arrested . Thats why there needs to be regulation.

Maybe you can't run your own transmission lines but you can make your own power plant and competitively sell that power over the existing lines (depending on the regulatory environment).

 

[K1052]

Don't power companies already filter out all the environmentally damaing stuff alreadY? The only thing people object to about coal is CO2, which is stupid.

Scrubbers get the sulfur dioxide and some other gasses (to prevent acid rain). A lot of the mercury and pretty much all of the radium ends up in the environment either by the exhaust or in the fly ash.

 

[wiretap]

isn't it true that pollution from a coal powerplant is an order of magnitude worse than pollution from automobiles? and how clean is clean coal power plants?

Don't let the clean coal fool you. When politicians talk about making plants 'retrofit' their operations.. it cannot be done for the overwhelming majority of plants. If they were to try and retrofit, it would cost literally hundreds of millions, and in most cases over a billion dollars. Our company (DTE) has ran through the cost scenarios. Our cheapest most viable option is nuclear, which is why we are trying to license an ESBWR right now. The funny thing about coal is, each plant is drastically different, and there is no standard to retrofit anything, let alone any companies or any proven technology out there to do it. (i.e. sequestration, advanced scrubber technology, etc.) Our coal plants are old enough as it is.. they're starting to fall apart. Every other week we have a unit down losing money due to boiler tube leaks. But on top of retrofitting, the plants still get charged per ton of CO2 that gets emitted. Cap and trade will only make it worse and create another derivatives bubble. They're expected to file for tax credits and depend on selling CO2 to make their losses back-- which would be in the billions of dollar ranges.

 

[Zargon]

The grids aren't garbage. What they are is near max capacity. However, the market is regulated, the state governments are unwilling to allow for electric rate increases to pay for the high capital cost of new transmission capacity. Customers have voted with their wallets, they would rather have cheaper energy now and let their kids pay for it in the decades to come.

so running max capactiy on 30 year old infrastructure isnt garbage?

I wasnt trying to lay blame, I know why they arent upgrading.

 

[rcpratt]

You work at DTE, wiretap? What department?

 

[1prophet]

I constantly hear of all these potential deaths in the millions from nuclear and costs in the many billions for cleanup yet when I look all I see is the many millions dead and trillions wasted directly or indirectly due to oil and its wars with no end in sight.

 

[rcpratt]

I think you have that backwards. Utilities pay the government to take possession of their waste and store it at Yucca (which the government does not, in breach of contract, hence the utilities have been suing the government for the cost of operating dry fuel interim storage).

Yes, the government is spending billions paying the utilities because they are not providing a national high-level waste repository like the law says.

 

[Carmen813]

If being hit by a tornado I'd rather be in a nuclear power plant than a wind farm. The pros of nuclear power outweigh the cons. But as I said, we need to upgrade our energy grid first. Especially in the North East. (oldest, and thus, shittiest, remember the entire thing blew out because of a tree branch in Ohio)

 

[MotF Bane]

How about a collective HELL, NO! WE WON'T GLOW!

Until there's a way to provide 100% guaranteed failsafe protection against sabotage and operator stupidity and to deal with leaks and radioactive waste, one failure can kill thousands if not millions of people and render an area the size of a mid-sized state uninhabitable for centuries.

It may be possible... someday, but it is not, now.

Let's get a 100% guarantee of safety from a lot of other things. Automobiles and cars should be a good start.

 

[Carmen813]

Don't power companies already filter out all the environmentally damaing stuff alreadY? The only thing people object to about coal is CO2, which is stupid.

Ever lived near a coal plant? My wife's parents do. It's gross. They need to scrub their house every single year because they have white siding.

 

[hal2kilo]

Ever lived near a coal plant? My wife's parents do. It's gross. They need to scrub their house every single year because they have white siding.

Ever grow up in Virginia, or any of the Mid-Atlantic states and wonder when the last time you saw a real blue sky. I only know there not supposed to be drab grey all the time because I've moved way west of there.

 

[wiretap]

You work at DTE, wiretap? What department?

Fermi 2. Engineering FIRSTeam. Summers only. I'm finishing up my CE degree right now and I'll return back late April or early May.

 

[rcpratt]

Fermi 2. Engineering FIRSTeam. Summers only. I'm finishing up my CE degree right now and I'll return back late April or early May.

Nice. I spent the last two summers with Nuclear Development (Fermi 3 licensing/design) and will also be back full time in May.

 

[wiretap]

Nice. I spent the last two summers with Nuclear Development (Fermi 3 licensing/design) and will also be back full time in May.

Cool. =) You must have worked under Peter Smith then.. I spoke with him last summer and he wanted me to come downtown and help with the Fermi 3 project, but I was too tied up with a bunch of issues in my department.. and I wanted to stay at the plant instead of driving to downtown Detroit every day. =/

 

[rcpratt]

Yup, sure did. I'd love to get a chance to work at the plant, hopefully I will be when construction actually starts.

 

[bfdd]

As soon as you volunteer your state to store nuclear wastes.

Fine by me.

 

[exar333]

Hell Yeah! He should push for a Nuclear plant in every state. THAT would be a great stimulus.

BTW, I don't like Obama much, but I would definitely support more Nuclear plants.

 

[Skitzer]

This is fantastic news and a total move in the right direction. Can I get a collective hell yeah from the crowd?

Hell Yeah!! ......... Too bad they will never materialize.
Political bullshit speech to appease the right.
If he actually did this he would lose his left wing base.