• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Obama is a Hawk

AAjax

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2001
3,798
0
0
Obama is a Hawk.

"Understanding Obama as a likely president of the United States is not possible without understanding the demands of an essentially unchanged system of power: in effect a great media game. For example, since I compared Obama with Robert Kennedy in these pages, he has made two important statements, the implications of which have not been allowed to intrude on the celebrations. The first was at the conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac), the Zionist lobby, which, as Ian Williams has pointed out, "will get you accused of anti-Semitism if you quote its own website about its power". Obama had already offered his genuflection, but on 4 June went further. He promised to support an "undivided Jerusalem" as Israel's capital. Not a single government on earth supports the Israeli annexation of all of Jerusalem, including the Bush regime, which recognises the UN resolution designating Jerusalem an international city.

His second statement, largely ignored, was made in Miami on 23 May. Speaking to the expatriate Cuban community ? which over the years has faithfully produced terrorists, assassins and drug runners for US administrations ? Obama promised to continue a 47-year crippling embargo on Cuba that has been declared illegal by the UN year after year."

Add in the "Im OK with throwing around the preemptive strike option in regards to Pakistan" And I really dont get how people think he is anything but buisness as usual. Either he is in fact a hawk, or he just like's to tell anyone he is speaking to what they want to hear, I am inclined to think he is both.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
In some ways, I think the post of AAjax is very much spot on. And his last sentence is especially getting to the heart of the question, either Obama is a hawk or is he pandering to
what people want to hear.

But in some ways, the AAjax question is moot, McCain is basically more hawkish IMHO, and lacks the brains to question what amounts to the existing fossilized US foreign policy.
Hillary is also equally hawkish IMHO, but she knows the foreign policy issues better so she is less likely to initially seek to put US boots on the ground in Pakistan, but overall I think she is a pandering hawk which may be the worst of all kinds.

If the American people had wanted someone less hawkish they could have voted for Ron Paul or Dennis Kucinich, the American people did not, so with McCain or Obama,
the American Dove voter can choose the lesser of two evils.

Given the choices I have, I can only hope Obama will choose the kind of strong expert advisers who can convince Obama that some of those policies he is campaigning on will not work. That and Obama's willingness to try diplomacy leave me hoping that Obama can usher in a more realistic and pragmatic foreign policy as he gets more up to speed on the issues. At least Obama made the right initial call on Iraq and McCain did not.

Just my take on the issue.

But if we want to look at the cited link, I paste the last of it.

He comes from an unbroken Democratic tradition, as the war-making of presidents Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter and Clinton demonstrates. Obama's difference may be that he feels an even greater need to show how tough he is. However much the colour of his skin draws out both racists and supporters, it is otherwise irrelevant to the great power game. The "truly exciting and historic moment in US history" will only occur when the game itself is challenged.

www.johnpilger.com

When Pelger starts to imply a Carter, a Clinton, and a Kennedy comes from the same mold as a Johnson, a Nixon, and a GWB, I think he is totally delusional. If anything
our Next President will be 24/7 engaged in repairing some of the damages GWB has done. That should be an education in itself.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
I think it matters to jp and crew whom expect troops to be rapidly returned from around the globe and.a return to 19th century isolationism; assuming of course they manage to stop out of the blind obedience beam for a moment.
 

heyheybooboo

Diamond Member
Jun 29, 2007
6,278
0
0
Originally posted by: lupi
I think it matters to jp and crew whom expect troops to be rapidly returned from around the globe and.a return to 19th century isolationism; assuming of course they manage to stop out of the blind obedience beam for a moment.
Talk about Strawmen ... lol

Set 'em up and knock 'em down.

File this one under ""Useless info for the day"". Only another 5 months of this crap :(

An "undivided Jerusalem" championed by jews and christians and muslims. Not quite a radical concept.

The embargo on Cuba? When you come up with something better let me know. I personally dislike it considering its hypocrisy with our embrace of China but who am I to judge?

And I'm as much a Libertarian Leftist as the next guy :)P) but those Wacki Pakis need much less coddling and a little more forceful prodding. If the stick is an ocassional Hellfire - or better yet, multiple tomahawks - at the Taliban in Pakistan I gots no problem with it.

Nor with a quick SF Op backed up by an AC-130: OBL Meets Spooky - News at 11:00.

Wake up and smell the cookin'. If a gov't is unwilling to stop terrorist safe-havens and cross-border insurgents - whether in LA, Iraq or Pakistan - it's not a 'great power game', it's an 'attitude adjustment' ...
 

Carbo

Diamond Member
Aug 6, 2000
5,223
6
81
He isn't a hawk. He isn't a dove. He isn't anything but a cardboard caricature of a politician. He has no core beliefs. Every position is poll and audience driven.
 

sierrita

Senior member
Mar 24, 2002
929
0
0
Originally posted by: Carbo
He isn't a hawk. He isn't a dove. He isn't anything but a cardboard caricature of a politician. He has no core beliefs. Every position is poll and audience driven.
Wrong again.
 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: AAjax
-snip-
And I really dont get how people think he is anything but buisness as usual. Either he is in fact a hawk, or he just like's to tell anyone he is speaking to what they want to hear, I am inclined to think he is both.
Yeah, I've been very dissapointed in the Obama of late.

Other than his race and whatever effects that may bring, I'm seeing "busines as usual".

Fern
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,471
1
0
Originally posted by: Carbo
He isn't a hawk. He isn't a dove. He isn't anything but a cardboard caricature of a politician. He has no core beliefs. Every position is poll and audience driven.
How about an owl? People called JFK an owl.

Personally, I think he's more of a flamingo with those long, dancer's legs
 

glenn1

Lifer
Sep 6, 2000
25,383
1,013
126
Originally posted by: AAjax
Obama is a Hawk.

"Understanding Obama as a likely president of the United States is not possible without understanding the demands of an essentially unchanged system of power: in effect a great media game. For example, since I compared Obama with Robert Kennedy in these pages, he has made two important statements, the implications of which have not been allowed to intrude on the celebrations. The first was at the conference of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (Aipac), the Zionist lobby, which, as Ian Williams has pointed out, "will get you accused of anti-Semitism if you quote its own website about its power". Obama had already offered his genuflection, but on 4 June went further. He promised to support an "undivided Jerusalem" as Israel's capital. Not a single government on earth supports the Israeli annexation of all of Jerusalem, including the Bush regime, which recognises the UN resolution designating Jerusalem an international city.

His second statement, largely ignored, was made in Miami on 23 May. Speaking to the expatriate Cuban community ? which over the years has faithfully produced terrorists, assassins and drug runners for US administrations ? Obama promised to continue a 47-year crippling embargo on Cuba that has been declared illegal by the UN year after year."

Add in the "Im OK with throwing around the preemptive strike option in regards to Pakistan" And I really dont get how people think he is anything but buisness as usual. Either he is in fact a hawk, or he just like's to tell anyone he is speaking to what they want to hear, I am inclined to think he is both.
I would love to see Obama give the order to invade Iran and watch jpeyton and company as their heads explode.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,192
8,778
126
First, he's an appeasing dove. Now he's hawk. WTF people, decide.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71
I think his statement about bringing a gun to a knife fight says it all.

I think his campaign's operatives are capable of hard ball politics while he himself remains above the fray, but ultimately I think he has a true respect for the rule of law (he is, after all, a former professor of constitutional law).
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,365
39
91
Originally posted by: Vic
First, he's an appeasing dove. Now he's hawk. WTF people, decide.
It's like they "poll" the current mood of people and try to figure out which admonishment will sit well with more people.

FFS, people - stop pandering to your fellow haters!

:)
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
2
0
Originally posted by: Carbo
He isn't a hawk. He isn't a dove. He isn't anything but a cardboard caricature of a politician. He has no core beliefs. Every position is poll and audience driven.
Maybe Carbo gets to the heart of the matter, Obama is a wild card, but still in the grand scheme of things, an unknown greatly trumps a proven failure.

With McCain there is a 100% chance of electing another failed idiot, with Obama there is a good chance we could do better. But that still beats a 100% chance of a proven failure.
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: lupi
I think it matters to jp and crew whom expect troops to be rapidly returned from around the globe and.a return to 19th century isolationism; assuming of course they manage to stop out of the blind obedience beam for a moment.
Talk about Strawmen ... lol

Set 'em up and knock 'em down.

File this one under ""Useless info for the day"". Only another 5 months of this crap :(

An "undivided Jerusalem" championed by jews and christians and muslims. Not quite a radical concept.

The embargo on Cuba? When you come up with something better let me know. I personally dislike it considering its hypocrisy with our embrace of China but who am I to judge?

And I'm as much a Libertarian Leftist as the next guy :)P) but those Wacki Pakis need much less coddling and a little more forceful prodding. If the stick is an ocassional Hellfire - or better yet, multiple tomahawks - at the Taliban in Pakistan I gots no problem with it.

Nor with a quick SF Op backed up by an AC-130: OBL Meets Spooky - News at 11:00.

Wake up and smell the cookin'. If a gov't is unwilling to stop terrorist safe-havens and cross-border insurgents - whether in LA, Iraq or Pakistan - it's not a 'great power game', it's an 'attitude adjustment' ...
Make sure you pass it along after your next hit.

 

ASK THE COMMUNITY