Obama is 100% correct in this speech

[hal2kilo]

I think there has been PLENTY of opportunity to do so, and I was surprised not to see ANY action.

For example:
- demonstrations of early 2000s would've been a good time to round up school buses/collect people and head for the border :biggrin:

- go to every restaurant, farm or "contractor" in the country

- go to the "area of the city where people go to hire illegals"

Better yet, go thru the records and sort thru illegals (info is ALL there)

But the REAL truth is, we need illegals and MANY of them are WAY better people and WAY more hard working people than your "average American". Let's face it.

Got the best damn car washes when I lived in SoCal. Those guys worked their butts off. Good luck with the snot nosed teenagers or young adults of non hispanic origin getting anywhere near as good of a clean.

 

[Newell Steamer]

Oh, NOW we can bring up Bush - yes, of course, it is in relation to criticizing Obama, so, it's perfectly legit & acceptable.

 

[Vdubchaos]

Got the best damn car washes when I lived in SoCal. Those guys worked their butts off. Good luck with the snot nosed teenagers or young adults of non hispanic origin getting anywhere near as good of a clean.

Their kids have been Americanized and have absolutely NO IDEA of the REAL world struggles.

Not many Americans do (yes, even the VERY poor ones).

😎

 

[nixium]

Their kids have been Americanized and have absolutely NO IDEA of the REAL world struggles.

Not many Americans do (yes, even the VERY poor ones).

😎

It's remarkable how that happens. I'm a first gen immigrant (legal) and I've jumped through a fair share of hoops through my time here. I've been forced to excel, live way within my means, constantly update my skills, and grab and push for opportunity when it arises.

I know a friend of my ethnicity, who is second generation, and the contrast is so huge. He's younger than me, and his problems are so "first world" and downright tame in comparison. Even little things - I remember not buying (and still don't) buy shoes over $50 or so... and he casually plopped down $150 on some footwear purely based on looks. Simple stuff like that.

That being said, my parents probably thought the same of *my* problems, so it's a generational thing, in a way.

 

[nixium]

I think every second gen immigrant, especially those from the third world, should be taken there to spend a month or two just to realize and be thankful for how good the have it. And definitely not in some plush hotel or home or something - live like how their parents did.

 

[GeezerMan]

Force able bodied people to work, instead of sitting on the sofa collecting welfare, and you would add a lot of people to the fields picking fruit. Amazing what you will do when you are hungry

 

[shira]

When the Republican-led Congress successfully passes meaningful, comprehensive immigration reform that fairly and effectively deals with long-term illegals, their American-citizen children, and border security, I'm sure Obama will be happy to sign the measure and revoke both of his executive orders.

But of course conservatives would much rather make angry speeches and break things than actually govern.

 

[GeezerMan]

When the Republican-led Congress successfully passes meaningful, comprehensive immigration reform that fairly and effectively deals with long-term illegals, their American-citizen children, and border security, I'm sure Obama will be happy to sign the measure and revoke both of his executive orders.

But of course conservatives would much rather make angry speeches and break things than actually govern.

American citizen children. Now there's something that needs to be changed. Automatic citizenship for being born here.

Heck, I have a bit of a problem with my Australian neighbors who fly the Australian flag outside their door, and tell their American born kids how bad America is, and how wonderful Australia is..

 

[Jhhnn]

how does a law BECOME a law when it's not enforcable?

When things change, or when lawmakers suffer illusions in the original formulation.

Anything else deliberately obtuse that you want to say?

 

[Jhhnn]

But the REAL truth is, we need illegals and MANY of them are WAY better people and WAY more hard working people than your "average American". Let's face it.

So is it important we have immigrants or important that they be illegal?

Repubs obviously believe the latter- what about you?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So the question that would close this up is,

Has Obama signed more or less EOs then Bush at the same time during his term?

If the answer is less then Obama has lived up to the 2008 speech.

If you have 3 parking tickets, but someone else kills 1 person are you three times as bad?

 

[Jhhnn]

American citizen children. Now there's something that needs to be changed. Automatic citizenship for being born here.

So amend the Constitution. Probably not, huh?

What would you suggest that's actually realistic? Or is this just an opportunity for the usual ravers to do their usual thing, reinforce each other's delusions?

 

[Victorian Gray]

It must have sucked to have been the first President. You couldn't use "But look what the guy before me did"

What about this guy? :biggrin:

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Poor poor CBDives.... When you create an altered reality bubble of extremity, and fill it with millions of people, you get quite a loud noise when it bursts. The President is no different that those who came before him in his exercise of power here. All that's different is that a bunch of emotionally immature Republicans are discovering that their rage and anger and threats are for naught. You can almost smell the emotional traumas they had when their Mommies said no.

I haven't read through this thread, but I've been concerned about what Obama articulated in his speech before he took office, or even was known to be running. I'm not sure how Bush justifies Obama or vice versa. That one continues a "tradition" such as this doesn't recommend it much, but then I never was one who cared much who did what was right or wrong, but that it was done at all. Republicans do indeed now reject what they embraced before, but not because of whether it is good or ill, but because someone else holds the Ring. Likewise the Democrats, or many of them. Unfortunately there's more alike about them in this regard than is different, but not many can withstand the attraction of power. It is a great failing.

 

[Jhhnn]

I haven't read through this thread, but I've been concerned about what Obama articulated in his speech before he took office, or even was known to be running. I'm not sure how Bush justifies Obama or vice versa. That one continues a "tradition" such as this doesn't recommend it much, but then I never was one who cared much who did what was right or wrong, but that it was done at all. Republicans do indeed now reject what they embraced before, but not because of whether it is good or ill, but because someone else holds the Ring. Likewise the Democrats, or many of them. Unfortunately there's more alike about them in this regard than is different, but not many can withstand the attraction of power. It is a great failing.

When all else fails, go for false equivalency. It's a central tenet of Conservatism, apparently.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

When all else fails, go for false equivalency. It's a central tenet of Conservatism, apparently.

Well too bad you are conservative then, isn't it? That noise is people laughing at you.

Now come back with some witty response showing your complete lack of understanding. Thanks for playing.

 

[Sunburn74]

I have no problem with the plan. I'd like to see it executed and watch the results. If the results are poor, adjust or repeal the action. However, currently as it stands, it's the best proposed immigration solution to this date for all parties involved, and makes significantly more sense than the previous and currently maintained solution of building higher and better policed walls on our borders.

 

[sportage]

The reason Obama did what he did now on immigration, and chose not to wait until the new congress took over, is exactly what you'd expect.
THAT, when the new congress takes over, they will do nothing on immigration.
But what they will do asap is pass new laws stripping Obama of executive order.
Obama wasn't and isn't that dumb to believe a new republican congress would be any different than the old republican congress.

When republicans take over in January 2015, their sole focus will be to investigate, harass, block, torture, demean Obama from left to right, top to bottom.
We all know that. Obama knows that. Republicans know that.

For John McCain to say Obama should "wait" six months for the new republican congress to take action on immigration is total and typical McCain nonsense.
While Obama would assume the new republican congress were doing immigration stuff, what they actually would be doing, quietly doing, is stack the deck so that Obama could never do executive order again.
Well, with one little lope hole so that future republican presidents COULD do executive action.

Remember when you were a kid and dad bought you that shiny new bike?
And you rode your shiny new bike to school?
And some kid you never seen before, asked if he could take your shiny new bike for a spin around the block?
Promising to return in just a few minutes?
Did you fall for that scam ????
No!
You knew if that kid took your bike, you'd never see your bike or that kid again.

No, you weren't that stupid to trust some strange kid.
And same goes for Obama with trusting republicans.
You can't trust them.
Not once during this entire Obama administration has ever once republicans earned any trust.
I don't trust them. That's why I would never vote for a single one them.
And Obama doesn't trust them. He just pretends he does, sometimes, but not this time.
And rightly so.

They all campaigned on hating Obama, so NOW he's gonna to trust them?
Tell me another fairy tale, daddy.

 

[Jhhnn]

Well too bad you are conservative then, isn't it? That noise is people laughing at you.

Now come back with some witty response showing your complete lack of understanding. Thanks for playing.

Going for the full retard personal attack routine so soon? Oh, my. Butthurt already, and it's only your second post in this thread.

Obama clearly finds himself under extreme pressure- Immigration is a mess, & Congressional Repubs are raving for action while they do their best to prevent it. So he gives them what they want, action. Come January, they're free to send him a bill laying out exactly what they want & how they intend to pay for it. They'll need to compromise with Senatorial Dems, however, to do it.

Oh, wait... compromise is treason for the Party of No, so they'll propose nothing that has a chance of altering the status quo, because the status quo is exactly what they want.

It'll be Reid's fault, or Obama's fault or anybody's but their own, obviously. Havin' it both ways- posturing to the base, keeping their financial backers happy at the same time. Doesn't get any better than that in the Right-wing-o-sphere.

 

[trenchfoot]

So where's all the "the sky is falling! the sky is falling! from McConnell and Boehner now that Obama has done what the Repubs threatened would trigger an epic political war of biblical proportions from the right?

Oh yeah, I forgot that they just went on Thanksgiving vacation. I guess the war on the Black dictator from Kenya will have to wait until next year or so.

What a letdown this is. I was expecting fireworks and got back not even a nonchalant girly fart.

 

[Matt1970]

I have no problem with the plan. I'd like to see it executed and watch the results. If the results are poor, adjust or repeal the action. However, currently as it stands, it's the best proposed immigration solution to this date for all parties involved, and makes significantly more sense than the previous and currently maintained solution of building higher and better policed walls on our borders.

What would be poor results?

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Going for the full retard personal attack routine so soon? Oh, my. Butthurt already, and it's only your second post in this thread.

Obama clearly finds himself under extreme pressure- Immigration is a mess, & Congressional Repubs are raving for action while they do their best to prevent it. So he gives them what they want, action. Come January, they're free to send him a bill laying out exactly what they want & how they intend to pay for it. They'll need to compromise with Senatorial Dems, however, to do it.

Oh, wait... compromise is treason for the Party of No, so they'll propose nothing that has a chance of altering the status quo, because the status quo is exactly what they want.

It'll be Reid's fault, or Obama's fault or anybody's but their own, obviously. Havin' it both ways- posturing to the base, keeping their financial backers happy at the same time. Doesn't get any better than that in the Right-wing-o-sphere.

Confession time people. I admit this fellow annoys me and so i wanted to be sure my perceptions were correct. Obviously the Republicans started all this nonsense but a few have been consistent in rejecting the extent of domestic spying and other abuses. Unfortunately a significant number of Democrats are for it since Obama has an affinity for a number of pet abuses. I also know that the Republicans are opposing immigration reform while Reagan others of their own did more or less similar things. But I'm not that invested in that as much as other things such as the PA.

Nevertheless, the Apologist Jhhnn fails to understand that he's a Republican in that he's just like them. It's never a combination of situations or people in his party, but the other guy, nor can he grasp that one doesn't have to have party loyalty and that's his and the Republican's weakness which is easily used against them. Poke them and they close ranks and can be maneuvered into doing what you want. Republicans in sufficient numbers will oppose Obama because Obama endorses something like immigration reform. He wants the PA. All suffiently clever anti PA people have to do is hit that nerve and the reflexive behavior of opposition kicks in. Like the Apologist they can't help it. They'll see this as something they have to be against because of partisanship and the established pattern of behavior dominates. It's manipulative, but that's something which is SOP in DC. We might as well use their weakness against them.

 

[Vdubchaos]

It's remarkable how that happens. I'm a first gen immigrant (legal) and I've jumped through a fair share of hoops through my time here. I've been forced to excel, live way within my means, constantly update my skills, and grab and push for opportunity when it arises.

I know a friend of my ethnicity, who is second generation, and the contrast is so huge. He's younger than me, and his problems are so "first world" and downright tame in comparison. Even little things - I remember not buying (and still don't) buy shoes over $50 or so... and he casually plopped down $150 on some footwear purely based on looks. Simple stuff like that.

That being said, my parents probably thought the same of *my* problems, so it's a generational thing, in a way.

I blame the parents, not the kids.

Spoiling children is by far the worst thing a parent can do. It has LIFE TIME effects on people. It simply creates a creature that's full of self entitlement, selfishness and arrogance....

 

[Vdubchaos]

So is it important we have immigrants or important that they be illegal?

Repubs obviously believe the latter- what about you?

We have PLENTY of legal immigrants, if we need more we issue more visas.

Meanwhile, illegal is illegal

 

[Vdubchaos]

When things change, or when lawmakers suffer illusions in the original formulation.

And there is no illusion in new proposed laws?

Enabling illegals will only tell the world that "its ok to come EVEN MORE".

And they will too....

Our illegal immigrant problem will only get worse!