Obama interfering in Middle East again, trying to say what Israel may or may not do.

[Brovane]

Please show me a non nuclear missile from any country thats effective at that range.

Here you go. The ASBM that China is developing is supposed to be non-nuclear but effective out to 2,000+ km.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASBM

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree with you in part. I myself have been critical of a few Israeli policies, and im unabashedly pro-Israel. That hardly makes someone anti-semitic. im talking about stuff right below the froth that rises.

So, uhh, you're talking abut your imagination & sense of persecution, right?

Apparently so, given that neither you nor Spidey could back up your accusations with anything other than bluster...

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

Here you go. The ASBM that China is developing is supposed to be non-nuclear but effective out to 2,000+ km.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ASBM

Oh really

Iran what are you using the Simorgh launcher we see here for?

No that is to put a man on the moon by the end of the decade.

Oh Really

Thats IRBM?

Remember Sajjil and the Gadir are IRBM. BALLESTIC MISSILES

Let me put it in a easy for you

You have 2 missiles

With a range of 1600km +

With the effectiveness of this when using non nuclear

You need a payload of this many kg's at that distance

Do you get it now??

China is developing is supposed to be non-nuclear but effective out to 2,000+ km <-- What does this mean??? Jack I mean really

+2000km non nuclear with that piss payload. Yes if its a anti satellite missile. But those I mentioned are not. They are IRBM's not ASBM's

IRBM's are based on the Nodong engine

Look at the payload for those missiles to be effective. Its off the chart!! More than 1500kg's! A lot more

Now you need to develop a bomb small enough to fit in front with a payload of +2000kg's to be effective. Please tell me what is that small and can produce that payload?

Then you have nuclear scientist coming in and out of plants to develop the countries power? I mean you got the plants what do you want to go and develop further. Then there is the Intel stuxnet provided and add to it the people leaking info who helped uploaded stuxnet. Surely alarm bells must be ringing

 

[Lemon law]

We have talked and war gamed the idea of an only Israeli strike against Iran, and somewhat concluded that Israel air force is too small, too far away, to much more than barely able dent Iran.

On the other hand the USA can be placed on the horns of a dilemma by a pre emptive Israeli strike against Iran. If the USA does not take action against an Israeli sneak attack against Israel by using its US planes in Kuwait, the USA will also catch world blame for an Israeli attack on Iran.

Because as Netanyuhu watches the Israeli position against a Palestinians State imploding on the world wide stage, he becomes a reckless desperado looking for any way to find a diversion. I can only hope Obama will have the backbone to shoot down any Israeli strike, and given the facts only an 30 minutes or so will remain for thinking, we can only hope Obama will make the decision quickly. By immediately preparing US planes in Kuwait for immediate takeoff, thereby allowing a few more minutes to tell Israel to back off.

Otherwise events will move and spiral beyond all control.

 

[Karl Agathon]

We have talked and war gamed the idea of an only Israeli strike against Iran, and somewhat concluded that Israel air force is too small, too far away, to much more than barely able dent Iran.

On the other hand the USA can be placed on the horns of a dilemma by a pre emptive Israeli strike against Iran. If the USA does not take action against an Israeli sneak attack against Israel by using its US planes in Kuwait, the USA will also catch world blame for an Israeli attack on Iran.

Because as Netanyuhu watches the Israeli position against a Palestinians State imploding on the world wide stage, he becomes a reckless desperado looking for any way to find a diversion. I can only hope Obama will have the backbone to shoot down any Israeli strike, and given the facts only an 30 minutes or so will remain for thinking, we can only hope Obama will make the decision quickly. By immediately preparing US planes in Kuwait for immediate takeoff, thereby allowing a few more minutes to tell Israel to back off.

Otherwise events will move and spiral beyond all control.

Hmmm, and just what are the odds that the President of the United States would order the shooting down of Israeli planes? :\ I have the feeling the odds are around the same as someone getting struck by lightning. I guess stranger things have happened though.

 

[Craig234]

Hmmm, and just what are the odds that the President of the United States would order the shooting down of Israeli planes? :\ I have the feeling the odds are around the same as someone getting struck by lightning. I guess stranger things have happened though.

If the old crew of the USS Liberty could still man an anti-aircraft ship, you might find it's pretty possible.

 

[Karl Agathon]

If the old crew of the USS Liberty could still man an anti-aircraft ship, you might find it's pretty possible.

What does that event which happened many decades ago have to do with what LL mentioned now? The Liberty was an American ship right? Whats being talked about here are Israeli planes and LL hoping America shoots down Israeli planes. is it possible they would shoot down those planes? Sure! Highly improbable though. Granted, what were the odds that people thought Israel would attack an American ship. I dont claim to know everything about that incident. There were, and still are two different sides to that. Different kind of theater though.

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

We have talked and war gamed the idea of an only Israeli strike against Iran, and somewhat concluded that Israel air force is too small, too far away, to much more than barely able dent Iran.

On the other hand the USA can be placed on the horns of a dilemma by a pre emptive Israeli strike against Iran. If the USA does not take action against an Israeli sneak attack against Israel by using its US planes in Kuwait, the USA will also catch world blame for an Israeli attack on Iran.

Because as Netanyuhu watches the Israeli position against a Palestinians State imploding on the world wide stage, he becomes a reckless desperado looking for any way to find a diversion. I can only hope Obama will have the backbone to shoot down any Israeli strike, and given the facts only an 30 minutes or so will remain for thinking, we can only hope Obama will make the decision quickly. By immediately preparing US planes in Kuwait for immediate takeoff, thereby allowing a few more minutes to tell Israel to back off.

Otherwise events will move and spiral beyond all control.

They destroyed Egypt and six years later with the help of Russian Sams they were shot down by the dozen. But that was the changing point in tactics in technology for the entire world. Shuffle through the history and you’ll realize that the Israeli air force has repeatedly exhibited its superordinate ability to whack down the opponents. We are talking about the Air force that do the retaliation runs normally. Iranian pilots lack lots of things and are not the capable of much.

They fly up to the corner of the Mediterranean, adjoining northern Syria and southeastern Turkey. Top off pack of 80 planes going over Turkey who will be pissed but not touch them bomb Iran then realizing the pissed of Turks would be in the air fly over Iraq whos got jack to do anything about it then over Jordan who will like last time scramble their pilots 5 hours to late, and hit a straight line home. We are talking about the 3rd best airforce in the world here. Not forgot their cyber weapons to knock most defenses out.

 

[Brovane]

Oh really

Iran what are you using the Simorgh launcher we see here for? snip


T

You asked to be shown a non-nuclear missile that is effective at that range. I just did. You then complain when I show a link to a reference to such a system.

I have no doubt that any missiles that Iran is developing will probably have a purpose to deliver a nuclear warhead, probably aimed at Israeli. I also have no doubt that as I type this that Israeli has nuclear tipped missiles aimed at Iran. Even if Iran developed a MRBM or IRBM and put a nuclear warhead on it. Israeli already has a ABM system in the Arrow that that protects it. The Arrow system is continued to be developed to increase its effectiveness. As I have said before on this board. I really don't care if Iran develops a nuclear device. They will also need a reliable delivery system. They don't have one currently. Even a missile will not be a reliable delivery system if you are launching against another nuclear power with a ABM system.

 

[umbrella39]

Bigoted anti-semitism is a foundation of the liberal. You'll see it in this thread and any others about Israel. It is one of their core beliefs.

Pin to Open Mic Sticky.... ^

 

[LiuKangBakinPie]

You asked to be shown a non-nuclear missile that is effective at that range. I just did. You then complain when I show a link to a reference to such a system.

I have no doubt that any missiles that Iran is developing will probably have a purpose to deliver a nuclear warhead, probably aimed at Israeli. I also have no doubt that as I type this that Israeli has nuclear tipped missiles aimed at Iran. Even if Iran developed a MRBM or IRBM and put a nuclear warhead on it. Israeli already has a ABM system in the Arrow that that protects it. The Arrow system is continued to be developed to increase its effectiveness. As I have said before on this board. I really don't care if Iran develops a nuclear device. They will also need a reliable delivery system. They don't have one currently. Even a missile will not be a reliable delivery system if you are launching against another nuclear power with a ABM system.

Effective against what? Do you see you need over a thousand missiles at that range to effectively destroy a structure. Thats called Military ineffective. You showed me a anti satellite missile that china is trying to develop. Its not been developed yet and certainly are not Military efficient yet. Plus a satellite in space can be damaged by anything as small as a coke can. Not much kg of payload needed.

And no if Iran shoots a missile with a nuclear war head of 2000kg's and more theres nothing to protect you. Because with a armed warhead where ever you shoot it down over your country you loose.

A Ballistic missile is the best way to fire a nuke. Hell how do you think they do it? Like in the 40's with a plane dropping a bomb? Where do you think they attached the warheads to? A missile.

The main point is not how they can measure who's penis is the bigger but that
1. Iran has missiles designed for extreme distances which is currently in testing
2. Those missiles are military ineffective at such long distances with a non nuclear payload
3. Need a small bomb with a 2000+ kg payload to make it 90 percent effective.
4. On 12 November 2011 a long range ballistic missile exploded at a Uranium harvest site in Iran when they were fiddling with the warhead.

Would anyone not become really suspicious over that?

And I'm not pro this anti this. I'm just trying to show why they have suspicions. There are a lot more evidence but this is just a couple of points. Would you not get suspicious if your enemy is doing the above mentioned?

 

[feralkid]

http://www.infowars.com/us-acts-to-...ncies-at-odds/comment-page-1/#comment-2956131

Now the two countries are going to be competing to see who can wage war against Iran first.

I don't see where you could get that impression.

Pat Robertson, perhaps?

 

[StrangerGuy]

If I'm Iran I wouldn't try my luck on hitting a tiny Jewish state in a sea of Arab states with a nuke.

But then again I'm not a crazed theocratic madman either.

 

[Brovane]

Effective against what? Do you see you need over a thousand missiles at that range to effectively destroy a structure. Thats called Military ineffective. You showed me a anti satellite missile that china is trying to develop. Its not been developed yet and certainly are not Military efficient yet. Plus a satellite in space can be damaged by anything as small as a coke can. Not much kg of payload needed.

And no if Iran shoots a missile with a nuclear war head of 2000kg's and more theres nothing to protect you. Because with a armed warhead where ever you shoot it down over your country you loose.

A Ballistic missile is the best way to fire a nuke. Hell how do you think they do it? Like in the 40's with a plane dropping a bomb? Where do you think they attached the warheads to? A missile.

The main point is not how they can measure who's penis is the bigger but that
1. Iran has missiles designed for extreme distances which is currently in testing
2. Those missiles are military ineffective at such long distances with a non nuclear payload
3. Need a small bomb with a 2000+ kg payload to make it 90 percent effective.
4. On 12 November 2011 a long range ballistic missile exploded at a Uranium harvest site in Iran when they were fiddling with the warhead.

Would anyone not become really suspicious over that?

And I'm not pro this anti this. I'm just trying to show why they have suspicions. There are a lot more evidence but this is just a couple of points. Would you not get suspicious if your enemy is doing the above mentioned?

Did you even look at the link, did you read it? ASBM stands for anti-ship ballistic weapon. It isn't a anti-satellite weapon. Is built to target US Carriers and warships out in the open ocean.

Actually with ABM you can protect yourself against a inbound missile. The velocity of the collisions that are involved would destroy the nuclear warhead enough to prevent any change of initiation. You might have debris falling down in your country but that is a lot better than nuclear initiation. The Arrow system uses a explosive but the affect is the same on the warhead. While the actual warhead might not be completely vaporized however it is damaged enough to prevent it from hitting its target and initiating. A nuclear warhead that is blasted into thousands of pieces only presents a radio-logical hazard to whoever is on the ground. Probably with Israeli and the range of the arrow system you would have the debris from a IRBM launched from Iran failing into the west bank or Jordan in the event of intercept. Jordan has actually expressed concerned that in the event of a conflict between Iran and Israeli that they would get hit with missile debris.

Talking about delivery systems. You can deliver a nuclear warhead several ways. The US still has nuclear bombs in its arsenal and has a wide variety of planes that can deliver nuclear bombs. Usually when a country firsts develops nuclear weapons the bombs are relatively large. The first several generations of US nuclear weapons where several tons in weight. The first H-Bombs where upwards of 15-20-tons. So even if they develop a nuclear warhead they might not be able to fit it onto a missile. Even if they can fit it into a missile it takes testing to verify that everything will work as planned.

Israeli has every right to be suspicious that Iran is developing nuclear weapons. I have not doubt that is what they are doing. The missile they are developing they probably hope to make it into a delivery system for a nuclear warhead. This is one of the reasons that Israeli developed the Arrow ABM system with US help. They wanted a shield against inbound missile threats. They continue to develop the system and improve on it. They never want to have a situation like in the Gulf War I where they had to depend on US troops with Patriot batteries to shoot down the missiles.

 

[Idontcare]

Locking thread do to excessive redirection of discussion by the Thread's OP:

Last edited by Anarchist420; Today at 01:15 PM. Reason: topic change

Please do not derail your own thread.

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