Obama Infomercial Extravaganza '08

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Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
The infomercial was a joke. Should have just spliced together previous clips of him talking instead of spending money on this one.

Was there really any point to it at all?

Personally I would think people would just see it as him buying more airtime and advertising as usual... Kind of puts the 150k (oh noes!!) on Palin's wardrobe into perspective.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Interesting to compare tonites Obama address with McCains campaign.
While McCain keeps smearing Obama, Obama went the entire half hour and never once mentioned McCains name.
Thumbs up for clean campaining, Barack
:thumbsup:

campaigning 101.

when you're ahead, you can afford to go positive.
when you're behind, you go negative or you give up.

and clean campaigning? come on, Barack's first gen-el ads were FUD targeted to seniors about how McCain was going to destroy their social security.
Critizing another candidates policies are not smear campaigning.

take his latest ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cKCl8tmb0

you think that's a positive ad?

At least ALL his ads aren't like that. "Clean" would seem to be a relative term, and I don't think you could make the argument that McCain has done a better job of that than Obama.

So, is this your admission that Obama hasn't run a clean campaign? Or is your definition of a "clean campaign" "not as dirty as the other guy's"?

I never claimed it was a black and white issue. I like it when a candidate runs a generally positive campaign, but I'm not going to say they're just as bad as the other guy when they run a few negative ads. Partial credit is worth a lot here, especially when the difference compared to the "other guy" is so stark.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: cubby1223
The biggest thing I see in this election, and the ad just reinforces it...

Over half a billion more dollars spent and just a couple percentage points ahead in the polls.

Obama is a master of reciting talking points. The only solid platform Obama has been winning on is that he is not George Bush.

Government is corrupt. Democrats are corrupt. Republicans are corrupt. The only way the government can help us is to first fix themselves. And that is *not* what Obama will be doing. He believes government has some magic wand that when waived can magically make everyone's problems go away. And the only reason the masses are believing this is because they are still overwhelmed by their dislike of George Bush. Government is *not* the answer. At least not right now.

There I've said my peace. Now I will never again venture into this cesspool of a forum. ;) :D

:thumbsup:

Oh please. Am I the only person getting tired of the "I hate government" childish ranting being passed off as genuine insight?

Honestly, your sentence is the one that comes off as childish.

I'm just working with what you give me. You want me to post better responses, try posting something more intelligent...or in your case agreeing with something more intelligent. Taking up a generic anti-government stance is the refuge of people who refuse to become informed about politics, and I honestly don't think that deserves much in the way of a response. But at least cubby1223 came up with his own viewpoint, even if I disagree with him. All YOU could manage was a "me too" response. I know you think my post was "childish", but I don't really think it's fair to compare it to your masterful rhetorical talents :roll:

Wow. Pardon me for agreeing with somebody else, and just giving a "thumbs up" of agreement rather than spout off endless lines of rhetorical nonsense.

That said, why in the world would you quote *me" and then spout off about "childish rants"? Was my "thumbs up" a rant in your world? Make up your mind.

Also, it's my opinion (which may be incorrect) that cubby's statement was against a big government, not government in general. Of course, you decided to take the ball in the totally opposite direction and start spouting off about how he's an uninformed totally anti-government-type. ASSume much?

 

rockyct

Diamond Member
Jun 23, 2001
6,656
32
91
Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: techs
Interesting to compare tonites Obama address with McCains campaign.
While McCain keeps smearing Obama, Obama went the entire half hour and never once mentioned McCains name.
Thumbs up for clean campaining, Barack
:thumbsup:

Yeah - he lets MoveOn do the dirty work. Of course, he has no association at all with them... :roll:

What about the Swiftboaters? They're the same thing as MoveOn.

feels like republican 527's have been MIA this year... maybe they're just not in NJ, but I've def. seen a bunch of moveon ads this year.
there have been a couple running adds around here lately.

the one where obama wants his daughters to abort his grandchildren is the best imo.

Yeah, that one's my favorite. "How can we trust a President who hates babies?"
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
AP fact checks Obama's tv spot.
THE SPIN: "That's why my health care plan includes improving information technology, requires coverage for preventive care and pre-existing conditions and lowers health care costs for the typical family by $2,500 a year."
THE FACTS: His plan does not lower premiums by $2,500, or any set amount. Obama hopes that by spending $50 billion over five years on electronic medical records and by improving access to proven disease management programs, among other steps, consumers will end up saving money. He uses an optimistic analysis to suggest cost reductions in national health care spending could amount to the equivalent of $2,500 for a family of four. Many economists are skeptical those savings can be achieved, but even if they are, it's not a certainty that every dollar would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower premiums.
___
THE SPIN: "I also believe every American has a right to affordable health care."
THE FACTS: That belief should not be confused with a guarantee of health coverage for all. He makes no such promise. Obama hinted as much in the ad when he said about the problem of the uninsured: "I want to start doing something about it." He would mandate coverage for children but not adults. His program is aimed at making insurance more affordable by offering the choice of government-subsidized coverage similar to that in a plan for federal employees and other steps, including requiring larger employers to share costs of insuring workers.
___
THE SPIN: "I've offered spending cuts above and beyond their cost."
THE FACTS: Independent analysts say both Obama and Republican John McCain would deepen the deficit. The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Obama's policy proposals would add a net $428 billion to the deficit over four years ? and that analysis accepts the savings he claims from spending cuts. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, whose other findings have been quoted approvingly by the Obama campaign, says: "Both John McCain and Barack Obama have proposed tax plans that would substantially increase the national debt over the next 10 years." The analysis goes on to say: "Neither candidate's plan would significantly increase economic growth unless offset by spending cuts or tax increases that the campaigns have not specified."
___
THE SPIN: "Here's what I'll do. Cut taxes for every working family making less than $200,000 a year. Give businesses a tax credit for every new employee that they hire right here in the U.S. over the next two years and eliminate tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. Help homeowners who are making a good faith effort to pay their mortgages, by freezing foreclosures for 90 days. And just like after 9-11, we'll provide low-cost loans to help small businesses pay their workers and keep their doors open. "
THE FACTS: His proposals ? the tax cuts, the low-cost loans, the $15 billion a year he promises for alternative energy, and more ? cost money, and the country could be facing a record $1 trillion deficit next year. Indeed, Obama recently acknowledged ? although not in his commercial ? that: "The next president will have to scale back his agenda and some of his proposals."
More empty promises.
 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Interesting to compare tonites Obama address with McCains campaign.
While McCain keeps smearing Obama, Obama went the entire half hour and never once mentioned McCains name.
Thumbs up for clean campaining, Barack
:thumbsup:

campaigning 101.

when you're ahead, you can afford to go positive.
when you're behind, you go negative or you give up.

and clean campaigning? come on, Barack's first gen-el ads were FUD targeted to seniors about how McCain was going to destroy their social security.
Critizing another candidates policies are not smear campaigning.

take his latest ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cKCl8tmb0

you think that's a positive ad?

At least ALL his ads aren't like that. "Clean" would seem to be a relative term, and I don't think you could make the argument that McCain has done a better job of that than Obama.

So, is this your admission that Obama hasn't run a clean campaign? Or is your definition of a "clean campaign" "not as dirty as the other guy's"?

I never claimed it was a black and white issue. I like it when a candidate runs a generally positive campaign, but I'm not going to say they're just as bad as the other guy when they run a few negative ads. Partial credit is worth a lot here, especially when the difference compared to the "other guy" is so stark.

A Campaign is either clean or it's not. Unless you runn a dirty, but not-as-dirty-as-the-other-guy campaign. Makes perfect sense.

What happened to real clean campaigns? I guess they've been rationalized away.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,936
10,826
147
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Perknose
Not saying anything about the current McCain, but people can be brutally wrong and still be honorable people.

Honorable? Fine. President? Nope. Too important of an issue.

Which is why it's IMPORTANT to vote for the clean, tidy, well spoken Negro lad, you know?

 

FuzzyBee

Diamond Member
Jan 22, 2000
5,172
1
81
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: bamacre
Originally posted by: Perknose
Not saying anything about the current McCain, but people can be brutally wrong and still be honorable people.

Honorable? Fine. President? Nope. Too important of an issue.

Which is why it's IMPORTANT to vote for the clean, tidy, well spoken Negro lad, you know?

Joe Biden, is that you?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,872
6,408
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
AP fact checks Obama's tv spot.
THE SPIN: "That's why my health care plan includes improving information technology, requires coverage for preventive care and pre-existing conditions and lowers health care costs for the typical family by $2,500 a year."
THE FACTS: His plan does not lower premiums by $2,500, or any set amount. Obama hopes that by spending $50 billion over five years on electronic medical records and by improving access to proven disease management programs, among other steps, consumers will end up saving money. He uses an optimistic analysis to suggest cost reductions in national health care spending could amount to the equivalent of $2,500 for a family of four. Many economists are skeptical those savings can be achieved, but even if they are, it's not a certainty that every dollar would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower premiums.
___
THE SPIN: "I also believe every American has a right to affordable health care."
THE FACTS: That belief should not be confused with a guarantee of health coverage for all. He makes no such promise. Obama hinted as much in the ad when he said about the problem of the uninsured: "I want to start doing something about it." He would mandate coverage for children but not adults. His program is aimed at making insurance more affordable by offering the choice of government-subsidized coverage similar to that in a plan for federal employees and other steps, including requiring larger employers to share costs of insuring workers.
___
THE SPIN: "I've offered spending cuts above and beyond their cost."
THE FACTS: Independent analysts say both Obama and Republican John McCain would deepen the deficit. The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Obama's policy proposals would add a net $428 billion to the deficit over four years ? and that analysis accepts the savings he claims from spending cuts. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, whose other findings have been quoted approvingly by the Obama campaign, says: "Both John McCain and Barack Obama have proposed tax plans that would substantially increase the national debt over the next 10 years." The analysis goes on to say: "Neither candidate's plan would significantly increase economic growth unless offset by spending cuts or tax increases that the campaigns have not specified."
___
THE SPIN: "Here's what I'll do. Cut taxes for every working family making less than $200,000 a year. Give businesses a tax credit for every new employee that they hire right here in the U.S. over the next two years and eliminate tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. Help homeowners who are making a good faith effort to pay their mortgages, by freezing foreclosures for 90 days. And just like after 9-11, we'll provide low-cost loans to help small businesses pay their workers and keep their doors open. "
THE FACTS: His proposals ? the tax cuts, the low-cost loans, the $15 billion a year he promises for alternative energy, and more ? cost money, and the country could be facing a record $1 trillion deficit next year. Indeed, Obama recently acknowledged ? although not in his commercial ? that: "The next president will have to scale back his agenda and some of his proposals."
More empty promises.

Not as empty as McCain's promises.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: cubby1223
The biggest thing I see in this election, and the ad just reinforces it...

Over half a billion more dollars spent and just a couple percentage points ahead in the polls.

Obama is a master of reciting talking points. The only solid platform Obama has been winning on is that he is not George Bush.

Government is corrupt. Democrats are corrupt. Republicans are corrupt. The only way the government can help us is to first fix themselves. And that is *not* what Obama will be doing. He believes government has some magic wand that when waived can magically make everyone's problems go away. And the only reason the masses are believing this is because they are still overwhelmed by their dislike of George Bush. Government is *not* the answer. At least not right now.

There I've said my peace. Now I will never again venture into this cesspool of a forum. ;) :D

:thumbsup:

Oh please. Am I the only person getting tired of the "I hate government" childish ranting being passed off as genuine insight?

Honestly, your sentence is the one that comes off as childish.

I'm just working with what you give me. You want me to post better responses, try posting something more intelligent...or in your case agreeing with something more intelligent. Taking up a generic anti-government stance is the refuge of people who refuse to become informed about politics, and I honestly don't think that deserves much in the way of a response. But at least cubby1223 came up with his own viewpoint, even if I disagree with him. All YOU could manage was a "me too" response. I know you think my post was "childish", but I don't really think it's fair to compare it to your masterful rhetorical talents :roll:

Wow. Pardon me for agreeing with somebody else, and just giving a "thumbs up" of agreement rather than spout off endless lines of rhetorical nonsense.

That said, why in the world would you quote *me" and then spout off about "childish rants"? Was my "thumbs up" a rant in your world? Make up your mind.
Well I disagreed with both of you on the issue, so it made sense to quote both of you. Even if you weren't "ranting", you were agreeing with someone who was.
Also, it's my opinion (which may be incorrect) that cubby's statement was against a big government, not government in general. Of course, you decided to take the ball in the totally opposite direction and start spouting off about how he's an uninformed totally anti-government-type. ASSume much?

He said "government is not the answer" and proceeded with the generic dismissal of government and both major parties as "corrupt" and in need of fixing. That is not a well thought out argument against "big government", that's a pretty blanket dismissal of government in general. The lack of any specific complaints is what generally makes me think people don't know what they are talking about. If you're going to dismiss the entire government as a bad thing, some argument besides it being "corrupt" would be a good idea.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: Rainsford
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Interesting to compare tonites Obama address with McCains campaign.
While McCain keeps smearing Obama, Obama went the entire half hour and never once mentioned McCains name.
Thumbs up for clean campaining, Barack
:thumbsup:

campaigning 101.

when you're ahead, you can afford to go positive.
when you're behind, you go negative or you give up.

and clean campaigning? come on, Barack's first gen-el ads were FUD targeted to seniors about how McCain was going to destroy their social security.
Critizing another candidates policies are not smear campaigning.

take his latest ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cKCl8tmb0

you think that's a positive ad?

At least ALL his ads aren't like that. "Clean" would seem to be a relative term, and I don't think you could make the argument that McCain has done a better job of that than Obama.

So, is this your admission that Obama hasn't run a clean campaign? Or is your definition of a "clean campaign" "not as dirty as the other guy's"?

I never claimed it was a black and white issue. I like it when a candidate runs a generally positive campaign, but I'm not going to say they're just as bad as the other guy when they run a few negative ads. Partial credit is worth a lot here, especially when the difference compared to the "other guy" is so stark.

A Campaign is either clean or it's not. Unless you runn a dirty, but not-as-dirty-as-the-other-guy campaign. Makes perfect sense.

What happened to real clean campaigns? I guess they've been rationalized away.

In English, I believe the word is called "cleaner", and it's generally preferable to "dirtier". Sure, if you were expecting a totally clean campaign, you might be disappointed. But I still think it's worth something to run a cleanER campaign than the other guy.
 

Descartes

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
13,968
2
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Interesting to compare tonites Obama address with McCains campaign.
While McCain keeps smearing Obama, Obama went the entire half hour and never once mentioned McCains name.
Thumbs up for clean campaining, Barack
:thumbsup:

campaigning 101.

when you're ahead, you can afford to go positive.
when you're behind, you go negative or you give up.

and clean campaigning? come on, Barack's first gen-el ads were FUD targeted to seniors about how McCain was going to destroy their social security.
Critizing another candidates policies are not smear campaigning.

take his latest ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cKCl8tmb0

you think that's a positive ad?

Unarguably negative, but clearly not a smear. McCain's haven't just been negative, they've been outright character assassination attempts.

But the back-and-forth about who had the most negative ad gets silly.

Also, for what it's worth, I'd rather see more honesty about ignorance from politicians. I don't see that McCain's statement about ignorance or Palin's demonstration of ignorance as a problem; rather, I see the problem being that they're ignorant one day and experts the next, such experts that they admonish others for not being on the same platform.

One of my first impressions of Obama was when I heard him years ago in a few interviews where he admitted that his role in government is more relegated to a role of manager, ushering in the bright minds with areas of expertise and rallying them behind a common goal. Why do we somehow think our politicians are, or should be, experts in everything?

Great leaders don't know everything. It's whether or not they think they do that makes all the difference, imo.

Meh.
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: techs
Interesting to compare tonites Obama address with McCains campaign.
While McCain keeps smearing Obama, Obama went the entire half hour and never once mentioned McCains name.
Thumbs up for clean campaining, Barack
:thumbsup:

Yeah - he lets MoveOn do the dirty work. Of course, he has no association at all with them... :roll:

What about the Swiftboaters? They're the same thing as MoveOn.

feels like republican 527's have been MIA this year... maybe they're just not in NJ, but I've def. seen a bunch of moveon ads this year.

Yeah, they definitely have.

My point in bringing up the Swiftboaters is simply that EVERYONE has someone else working on their behalf. I didn't say I thought Obama ran a clean campaign -- I think it has been cleaner than McCain's, but that's not saying much.
 

Ozoned

Diamond Member
Mar 22, 2004
5,578
0
0
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: BeauJangles
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: techs
Interesting to compare tonites Obama address with McCains campaign.
While McCain keeps smearing Obama, Obama went the entire half hour and never once mentioned McCains name.
Thumbs up for clean campaining, Barack
:thumbsup:

Yeah - he lets MoveOn do the dirty work. Of course, he has no association at all with them... :roll:

What about the Swiftboaters? They're the same thing as MoveOn.

feels like republican 527's have been MIA this year... maybe they're just not in NJ, but I've def. seen a bunch of moveon ads this year.

Yeah, they definitely have.

My point in bringing up the Swiftboaters is simply that EVERYONE has someone else working on their behalf. I didn't say I thought Obama ran a clean campaign -- I think it has been cleaner than McCain's, but that's not saying much.

This is the way we have been choosing presidents for over 200 years. Throw the mud, the more the better. It is our Legacy.
 

Linux23

Lifer
Apr 9, 2000
11,374
741
126
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
AP fact checks Obama's tv spot.
THE SPIN: "That's why my health care plan includes improving information technology, requires coverage for preventive care and pre-existing conditions and lowers health care costs for the typical family by $2,500 a year."
THE FACTS: His plan does not lower premiums by $2,500, or any set amount. Obama hopes that by spending $50 billion over five years on electronic medical records and by improving access to proven disease management programs, among other steps, consumers will end up saving money. He uses an optimistic analysis to suggest cost reductions in national health care spending could amount to the equivalent of $2,500 for a family of four. Many economists are skeptical those savings can be achieved, but even if they are, it's not a certainty that every dollar would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower premiums.
___
THE SPIN: "I also believe every American has a right to affordable health care."
THE FACTS: That belief should not be confused with a guarantee of health coverage for all. He makes no such promise. Obama hinted as much in the ad when he said about the problem of the uninsured: "I want to start doing something about it." He would mandate coverage for children but not adults. His program is aimed at making insurance more affordable by offering the choice of government-subsidized coverage similar to that in a plan for federal employees and other steps, including requiring larger employers to share costs of insuring workers.
___
THE SPIN: "I've offered spending cuts above and beyond their cost."
THE FACTS: Independent analysts say both Obama and Republican John McCain would deepen the deficit. The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget estimates Obama's policy proposals would add a net $428 billion to the deficit over four years ? and that analysis accepts the savings he claims from spending cuts. The nonpartisan Tax Policy Center, whose other findings have been quoted approvingly by the Obama campaign, says: "Both John McCain and Barack Obama have proposed tax plans that would substantially increase the national debt over the next 10 years." The analysis goes on to say: "Neither candidate's plan would significantly increase economic growth unless offset by spending cuts or tax increases that the campaigns have not specified."
___
THE SPIN: "Here's what I'll do. Cut taxes for every working family making less than $200,000 a year. Give businesses a tax credit for every new employee that they hire right here in the U.S. over the next two years and eliminate tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas. Help homeowners who are making a good faith effort to pay their mortgages, by freezing foreclosures for 90 days. And just like after 9-11, we'll provide low-cost loans to help small businesses pay their workers and keep their doors open. "
THE FACTS: His proposals ? the tax cuts, the low-cost loans, the $15 billion a year he promises for alternative energy, and more ? cost money, and the country could be facing a record $1 trillion deficit next year. Indeed, Obama recently acknowledged ? although not in his commercial ? that: "The next president will have to scale back his agenda and some of his proposals."
More empty promises.

Yeppers. Definitely going to vote Palin/McCain, now that I know that they are going to keep their promises while Obama is just making empty promises.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
How's he going to pay to rebuild the military?

Like everything else. Tax those richies making 250K+.

He actually just changed it to $200k+. After the election, it'll be go down to $50k+.

Another lie.

Nothing changed. It's $200k taxable income for singles, $250K for marrieds.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Originally posted by: loki8481
Originally posted by: techs
Interesting to compare tonites Obama address with McCains campaign.
While McCain keeps smearing Obama, Obama went the entire half hour and never once mentioned McCains name.
Thumbs up for clean campaining, Barack
:thumbsup:

campaigning 101.

when you're ahead, you can afford to go positive.
when you're behind, you go negative or you give up.

and clean campaigning? come on, Barack's first gen-el ads were FUD targeted to seniors about how McCain was going to destroy their social security.
Critizing another candidates policies are not smear campaigning.

take his latest ad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3cKCl8tmb0

you think that's a positive ad?

No one's claiming that Obama doesn't run negative ads. The claim is that a much, much lower percentage of Obama's ads are negative than McCain's, and that in comparing the overall campaigns, Obama's message has been mostly positive whereas McCain's has been mostly negative.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
Originally posted by: FuzzyBee
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: bctbct
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
Originally posted by: Genx87
Originally posted by: Capt Caveman
How's he going to pay to rebuild the military?

Like everything else. Tax those richies making 250K+.

He actually just changed it to $200k+. After the election, it'll be go down to $50k+.

wrong

250k+ tax increase
200k-249k same
200k- decrease

Did you watch his infomercial? It was typed across the screen that those making more than $200k would receive the tax increase with everyone under getting a tax cut.


iirc it said anyone below 200k would receive a tax cut.

... not relative to their current tax rate, of course, but a higher past tax rate.

Yet another lie. Obama's proposed cuts and increases are relative to CURRENT taxes.
 

daniel49

Diamond Member
Jan 8, 2005
4,814
0
71
I'm sure glad I mailed my ballot in.
Would have been a real drag standing in line behind 10 Mickey Mouses.
:cool:
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Perknose
Originally posted by: bamacre


...the guy who originally stood up to Bush's tax cuts for the wealthy...

That's just it - he was right about that, but not only has he sold out his position, he's made it a main attack on Obama for doing the right thing, twisted it into a grotesquely exaggerated description of 'redistributing wealth' when it's opposing the extreme concentration of wealth at the top going on because of redistribution upward, and that's horrible. The cut for the wealth was redistributionist. McCain said the same thing Obama is saying. There's no excuse for McCain's dishonest behavior.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Call now and he'll double your order of BS. But only for the next 15 min!

The adolescent mentality of the right and their lack of anything to say really shines brightly when they are losing.
 

Insomniator

Diamond Member
Oct 23, 2002
6,294
171
106
Originally posted by: Craig234
Originally posted by: Ocguy31
Call now and he'll double your order of BS. But only for the next 15 min!

The adolescent mentality of the right and their lack of anything to say really shines brightly when they are losing.

Lighten up
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,959
6,798
126
I missed the piece but I did witness the last 8 years of the greatest disaster in American history and our humiliating loss of respect in the world, brought to us entirely as a gift of the huge percentage of brainwashed fools who call themselves Republicans and knuckle drag themselves to the polls to vote for their Neanderthal candidates. Why don't you filthy country destroying bastards crawl back into your caves for a few years and harvest the mushrooms your shit should be producing in plenitude like anybody with an ounce of modesty and shame would do and let some intelligent and forward thinking people take over for a change. Your brain dead stupidity has ruined your country but you keep spouting and spouting it over and over again.