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Obama Health Care Penalty

Tarrant64

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,203
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I keep hearing mention of this, but it's not really stated anywhere what McCain (or other critics) is talking about. I keep hearing mention about a "penalty" that's possible under Obama's health care plan. Is it for those who don't insure their children???


I am neither for Obama/McCain on this subject, just wanted to check the "facts". Anyone know?

 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
I dont know the specifics either but believe it does require one to insure their children or face a penalty. That penalty is up for debate because Obama wont say how much it is and wouldnt answer the question last night either.

How much are people in Mass required to pay if they dont purchase health insurance?
 

Tarrant64

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,203
0
76
Yeah, there was mention of a penalty type law in place in Mass, couldn't find the numbers though.

OK, I just wanted to know if it was just me or everyone who didn't have any numbers on how much they would have to pay under Obama's plan. I mean, I don't necessarily imagine it would be a deal breaker? I think in Mass the penalty is just a loss of the tax cuts or something like that you'd get for other family things.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
That may be but it would be nice to know what the penalty is and who it applies to.
 

Tarrant64

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,203
0
76
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Kinda On-Topic actually. That's a valid point, and maybe that's the justification for the penalty under Obama's plan?

Children s lives are very important, and I do believe they NEED healthcare throughout their childhood.
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Unless they have to make the choice between other necessities like food and such I agree. At the end of the day, Obama just wants to make health care much more affordable and accessible for everyone. As it stands, an estimated 40% of all businesses out there do not offer their employees a health care program of any kind let alone a plan which is both affordable and of decent quality for both the business and the employees. Health care has been shot down to a lower priority for too long now. To me, some things are simply worth more than money and quality health care is one of them. I agree with Obama. It should be a right.

Also keep in mind that McCain voted against support for the kinds of programs such as Florida Kid Care which provides many children in many families health care that is affordable.
 

spidey07

No Lifer
Aug 4, 2000
65,469
5
76
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Kinda On-Topic actually. That's a valid point, and maybe that's the justification for the penalty under Obama's plan?

Children s lives are very important, and I do believe they NEED healthcare throughout their childhood.
You can get healthcare without having healthcare insurance. People seem to forget this fact.
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Kinda On-Topic actually. That's a valid point, and maybe that's the justification for the penalty under Obama's plan?

Children s lives are very important, and I do believe they NEED healthcare throughout their childhood.
You can get healthcare without having healthcare insurance. People seem to forget this fact.
Can you get good and affordable health care without insurance?
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Unless they have to make the choice between other necessities like food and such I agree. At the end of the day, Obama just wants to make health care much more affordable and accessible for everyone. As it stands, an estimated 40% of all businesses out there do not offer their employees a health care program of any kind let alone a plan which is both affordable and of decent quality for both the business and the employees. Health care has been shot down to a lower priority for too long now. To me, some things are simply worth more than money and quality health care is one of them. I agree with Obama. It should be a right.

Also keep in mind that McCain voted against support for the kinds of programs such as Florida Kid Care which provides many children in many families health care that is affordable.

When you say it should be a right, what other rights should we have?

I assume when you say right you mean it should be government (tax payer funded), am I correct?
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Administrator
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
28
86
Originally posted by: Robor

Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
That's Obama's point, but in more civil terms. The basic idea is to mandate health coverage for kids because not doing so costs more when parents bring their uninsured kids to emergency rooms, and the same kids are in danger if they're not treated.

The flip side is that he wants to provide assistance for those too poor to afford the coverage. The penalty aspect is intended to make sure every child is covered. If it isn't mandatory, and people are allowed to opt out, the pool of insured would be smaller, making coverage more expensive for those remaining in the program, and leaving the kids of those who drop out uncovered.

Kids are the most vulnerable group, and we can't expect them to be able to provide their own coverage. Like basic immunization against communicable diseases, if it isn't mandatory, it won't work.
 

MonkeyK

Golden Member
May 27, 2001
1,396
8
81
Originally posted by: spidey07
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Kinda On-Topic actually. That's a valid point, and maybe that's the justification for the penalty under Obama's plan?

Children s lives are very important, and I do believe they NEED healthcare throughout their childhood.
You can get healthcare without having healthcare insurance. People seem to forget this fact.
At who's cost?
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,061
494
126
Originally posted by: Harvey
Originally posted by: Robor

Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
That's Obama's point, but in more civil terms. The basic idea is to mandate health coverage for kids because not doing so costs more when parents bring their uninsured kids to emergency rooms, and the same kids are in danger if they're not treated.

The flip side is that he wants to provide assistance for those too poor to afford the coverage. The penalty aspect is intended to make sure every child is covered. If it isn't mandatory, and people are allowed to opt out, the pool of insured would be smaller, making coverage more expensive for those remaining in the program, and leaving the kids of those who drop out uncovered.

Kids are the most vulnerable group, and we can't expect them to be able to provide their own coverage. Like basic immunization against communicable diseases, if it isn't mandatory, it won't work.

What does the CHIPS program do then?
 

Tarrant64

Diamond Member
Sep 20, 2004
3,203
0
76
I know there are free clinics out there that will treaty anybody that comes through their doors here in NE. No idea where that is funded from though.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,397
9,243
126
As I recall, Obama is on record being against the health care mandate and penalty like they have in Mass. However, as it's the Senate who is writing the reform, he may not have much of say in it. And McCain would have even less, his health care reform plans won't make it out of the White House.
 

Budmantom

Lifer
Aug 17, 2002
13,103
1
81
The kicker about insurance and the people that can't afford it is rather odd:
If I go to a hospital and I can't afford insurance and my bill is $10,000 I can get a small discount(about 10%) if I pay up front but when Medicare gets the bill they will pay less than half (if I remember correctly).


I'm sure somebody here knows the numbers a lot better than what I remember but that is basically how it works.
 

xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
76
I read Obama's HC plan and all it says in reference to the OP's question is:

(5) REQUIRE COVERAGE OF CHILDREN. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will require that all children have health care coverage. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage by allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents? plans..
Hypothetically, what if the parent(s) earn $250,000 in annual income and choose not to carry health insurance for their child(ren)?

Will they be fined? What will the amount of the fine be?

Obama would not answer those questions.
 

CanOWorms

Lifer
Jul 3, 2001
12,404
1
0
Can the government really force you to directly pay a penalty for not paying a private company some money? Is that even constitutional? They want to fine you for not giving a private company your money. This isn't like car insurance where insurance is required for the privilege of using the roads. This is just for existing.
 

BAMAVOO

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
8,089
41
91
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Kinda On-Topic actually. That's a valid point, and maybe that's the justification for the penalty under Obama's plan?

Children s lives are very important, and I do believe they NEED healthcare throughout their childhood.
I would think it to be to put money in his pockets. Obama voted to kill a child even if it survives an abortion, what makes you think he cares about them when they are older?
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: Budmantom
The kicker about insurance and the people that can't afford it is rather odd:
If I go to a hospital and I can't afford insurance and my bill is $10,000 I can get a small discount(about 10%) if I pay up front but when Medicare gets the bill they will pay less than half (if I remember correctly).


I'm sure somebody here knows the numbers a lot better than what I remember but that is basically how it works.
Works the same with insurance vs. uninsured. Like most I've had several employer subsidized insurance plans and can see the original cost and agreed to discount. I've also gone to the doctor without any insurance and the discount (I think it was 10%) is nowhere near what the insurance company pays.
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
48,397
9,243
126
Originally posted by: xenolith
I read Obama's HC plan and all it says in reference to the OP's question is:

(5) REQUIRE COVERAGE OF CHILDREN. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will require that all children have health care coverage. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage by allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents? plans..
Hypothetically, what if the parent(s) earn $250,000 in annual income and choose not to carry health insurance for their child(ren)?

Will they be fined? What will the amount of the fine be?

Obama would not answer those questions.
Who makes $250k and doesn't insure their children?
 

Robor

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
16,979
0
0
Originally posted by: BAMAVOO
Originally posted by: Tarrant64
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Kinda On-Topic actually. That's a valid point, and maybe that's the justification for the penalty under Obama's plan?

Children s lives are very important, and I do believe they NEED healthcare throughout their childhood.
I would think it to be to put money in his pockets. Obama voted to kill a child even if it survives an abortion, what makes you think he cares about them when they are older?
Keep trying to make that crap stick :roll:
 

Xavier434

Lifer
Oct 14, 2002
10,377
1
0
Originally posted by: Budmantom
Originally posted by: Xavier434
Originally posted by: Robor
Maybe a little OT but anyone who would have a child and not insure them is crazy.
Unless they have to make the choice between other necessities like food and such I agree. At the end of the day, Obama just wants to make health care much more affordable and accessible for everyone. As it stands, an estimated 40% of all businesses out there do not offer their employees a health care program of any kind let alone a plan which is both affordable and of decent quality for both the business and the employees. Health care has been shot down to a lower priority for too long now. To me, some things are simply worth more than money and quality health care is one of them. I agree with Obama. It should be a right.

Also keep in mind that McCain voted against support for the kinds of programs such as Florida Kid Care which provides many children in many families health care that is affordable.

When you say it should be a right, what other rights should we have?

I assume when you say right you mean it should be government (tax payer funded), am I correct?
I am flexible. I can be satisfied without there being lots of tax payer funding. I am not against it though. At the end of the day, I think every American deserves quality and affordable health care. That doesn't mean I think every American deserves the same quality but it all must be of good quality. If you want better then I expect there to be options for you, but only if you are willing to pay more for it.



Originally posted by: Budmantom
The kicker about insurance and the people that can't afford it is rather odd:
If I go to a hospital and I can't afford insurance and my bill is $10,000 I can get a small discount(about 10%) if I pay up front but when Medicare gets the bill they will pay less than half (if I remember correctly).


I'm sure somebody here knows the numbers a lot better than what I remember but that is basically how it works.
The numbers I do not have, but what I can tell you is that hospitals and doctors in general will very often charge health insurance companies a lot more money than they will charge patients without health insurance. Much more than a 10% difference too. This was proven to me with a recent situation concerning my wife only a few months ago. Without going into unnecessary detail, the price if she had insurance would have been something like $6500 and she would have had to pay about $3500 out of her own pocket after you do all the math. Without it would have been between $2500-$3000 out of her own pocket.
 

xenolith

Golden Member
Aug 3, 2000
1,588
0
76
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: xenolith
I read Obama's HC plan and all it says in reference to the OP's question is:

(5) REQUIRE COVERAGE OF CHILDREN. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will require that all children have health care coverage. Barack Obama and Joe Biden will expand the number of options for young adults to get coverage by allowing young people up to age 25 to continue coverage through their parents? plans..
Hypothetically, what if the parent(s) earn $250,000 in annual income and choose not to carry health insurance for their child(ren)?

Will they be fined? What will the amount of the fine be?

Obama would not answer those questions.
Who makes $250k and doesn't insure their children?
Who knows? Are you implying there aren't any?

It's not a moral question. It's a pragmatic legislative question.
 

frostedflakes

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2005
7,925
1
0
Any info on the government insurance plan he intends to offer as an alternative? How much would it be expected to cost and how's the coverage?
 

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