Obama "green jobs" = oil lobbyists, bus drivers, garbage men, used record stores

[Ninjahedge]

If you mean loaded as to point out the ridiculousness of it, then OK I agree. Success!

Nope.

The only thing that is ridiculous is setting this guy up for this kind of crap. Hypocritical waste of time and money.

 

[Ninjahedge]

If there was an error, it was not Issa's:



Browbeating not found.

ooc.

Thank you for playing.

 

[Fern]

According to Brookings, that's one of the errors in Issa's browbeating. The dude who fills buses does NOT count as a green job according to the BLS rules.

Edit: but I do agree, it certainly appears Obama has inflated the number of "green" jobs created under his watch.

So the officials from the BLS are wrong about how the BLS counts jobs?

If the officials in charge of the BLS are telling me how the BLS does the count I'm inclined to believe them over some 3rd party who is not part of the BLS and doesn't do the count.

Fern

 

[Ninjahedge]

Even if they are being bullied into simple one-word responses to loaded misleading questions?

 

[Fern]

Even if they are being bullied into simple one-word responses to loaded misleading questions?

If this is directed at me: Yes.

These are high ranking officials, not little school girls easily cowed.

The type of questions that Issa was asking can be answered with a simple "yes', 'no', or 'IDK'. If they needed more detail, they could have easily said so.

I don't know much about Issa, but I've seen him in several of these committee meetings lately. Frankly the guy has more patience than me or many I know. Far too often the witnesses have avoided the (clear) question and just gone on to talking points that don't address the question. That's BS. Answer the damn question or admit that you don't know.

Seems pretty clear to me that these people are evading questions and burning up (very limited) time.

Fern

 

[Ninjahedge]

Read the transcript. He was cowed. After trying several times to get a complete answer in he just gave up.

The issue is a stupid one. One of the "debates" that someone can "win" and have absolutely nothing in doing so.

 

[Fern]

Read the transcript. He was cowed. After trying several times to get a complete answer in he just gave up.

The issue is a stupid one. One of the "debates" that someone can "win" and have absolutely nothing in doing so.

I've seen the video on TV several times.

What you call a "complete answer" I call obfuscating and delaying.

It's clear what Issa was doing. He was making it clear that the counting methodologies are absurd. They are bogus. This is S.O.P for lawyers in legal proceedings. While they would probably prefer the witness just say "Yeah, we use highly questionable criteria to bloat the shizz out of the numbers" that isn't going to happen so they go through this process.

The guy wasn't cowed, he was checkmated.

Fern

 

[Ninjahedge]

K.

Whatever.

 

[werepossum]

I think that transcript mostly demonstrates that Issa is a posturing a-hole, cutting off his experts to prevent them from offering complete answers to his loaded questions. For those who'd like a more balanced article, here's one from Brookings:
Brookings also provides links for additional information.

That is our political system in a nutshell. One party makes a claim that is 10% truth and 90% lies, the other party calls them on the 90% lies and then adds its own 90% lies.

I'd say any job selling used items is more or less a green job, since it's recycling something that would otherwise be thrown away and presumably bought new.

 

[Jhhnn]

Just another example of the "green jobs" BS. I can't believe idiots continue to fall for that stuff.

I can't believe idiots fall for Issa's usual posturing, preening & pandering, either. He's an infamous bully interested only in headlines.

 

[LumbergTech]

This seems indefensible to me..anyone got something useful to say about it? I was just laughing while reading it.

 

[Bowfinger]

So the officials from the BLS are wrong about how the BLS counts jobs?

If the officials in charge of the BLS are telling me how the BLS does the count I'm inclined to believe them over some 3rd party who is not part of the BLS and doesn't do the count.

Fern

That's because you reached your conclusion first and made no effort to determine if the facts support it. I'm not sure exactly what Galvin does, but as a "commissioner" I suspect he sits at the 50,000 foot level, not down in the trenches where all the minute details are worked through.

Moreover, unlike most (all?) of those who piled on to attack Obama, I did actually seek to learn more so I had some idea what I was talking about. I checked some of the links provided by Brookings, including links to BLS explaining the report. I found that the BLS has almost 1200 industry codes used to decide whether a company might have "green" jobs, with five different categories for each to further refine the selection. That gives BLS nearly 6,000 distinct combinations to define which industries may qualify. (Note that key word: industries. Not even jobs ... industries.) Now perhaps you expect your public servants to have superhuman memories, but I don't. It was absolutely unreasonable for Issa to insist Galvin attempt to answer those questions off the top of his head.

But wait, there's more. I also learned that BLS doesn't actually define specific jobs at all when gathering data for the report. Rather, it requires each company that may qualify as having "green" jobs to self-report how many of those jobs it has. If a company's revenue comes entirely from qualified products or services, 100% of its employees are counted as "green" jobs, regardless of what they do. If not, the company reports a percentage of its total FTEs based on the percentage of their revenue that comes from green-qualified products and services.

So really the whole line of questioning about specific jobs was essentially nonsense. I strongly suspect Galvin would have explained that had Issa allowed it. Issa did not. Issa cut him off when Galvin tried to provide full and accurate answers. IMO, that's because Issa was too busy grandstanding for the RNC faithful seeking their daily does of Obama rage.

Galvin was in the unfortunate position of being called in by management for a good, old fashioned ass chewing. He quickly found out that his role in that ass chewing was to nod his head and agree with whatever the "boss" said. So he did. It's no doubt great theater for those who uncritically swallow their party's propaganda. It was not very honest or informative, however.

 

[Bowfinger]

That is our political system in a nutshell. One party makes a claim that is 10% truth and 90% lies, the other party calls them on the 90% lies and then adds its own 90% lies. ...

Yep, agreed. The irony is I completely agree the Obama admin has overstated the number of green jobs it has created. As you suggest, Issa then took that bit of actual truth and bundled it in lies. He was not satisfied with valid criticisms of the Obama admin. He had to take it over the top.

 

[Incorruptible]

Any criticism of obama is fair, he lied to the American people and broke his promises as well as president he will be subject to criticism

 

[PokerGuy]

I can't believe idiots fall for Issa's usual posturing, preening & pandering, either. He's an infamous bully interested only in headlines.

And yet even if what you say is true, it doesn't make the points he made any less valid. He made it crystal clear that the BLS "green jobs" numbers are a complete joke and just more political BS. I appreciate What Issa did, it was the only way to get a straight answer.

 

[PokerGuy]

I did actually seek to learn more so I had some idea what I was talking about. I checked some of the links provided by Brookings, including links to BLS explaining the report. I found that the BLS has almost 1200 industry codes used to decide whether a company might have "green" jobs, with five different categories for each to further refine the selection. That gives BLS nearly 6,000 distinct combinations to define which industries may qualify. (Note that key word: industries. Not even jobs ... industries.) Now perhaps you expect your public servants to have superhuman memories, but I don't. It was absolutely unreasonable for Issa to insist Galvin attempt to answer those questions off the top of his head.

If that's the case, a simple "I don't know" would have been the correct answer. No need to try and stall or obfuscate, just a simple yes/no/idk would be fine.

But wait, there's more. I also learned that BLS doesn't actually define specific jobs at all when gathering data for the report. Rather, it requires each company that may qualify as having "green" jobs to self-report how many of those jobs it has. If a company's revenue comes entirely from qualified products or services, 100% of its employees are counted as "green" jobs, regardless of what they do. If not, the company reports a percentage of its total FTEs based on the percentage of their revenue that comes from green-qualified products and services.

So basically what you're saying is that the point Issa was trying to make was 100% right, the statistics used for measuring "green" jobs are complete BS. Issa did a great job getting that point made in just a few moments.

Issa cut him off when Galvin tried to provide full and accurate answers.

No, Galvin tried to provide more spin BS and dance around the answer. Issa apparently did a masterful job, he got us to see that the "green" jobs stats are a complete joke and waste of time, and exposed the lies of the administration.

Thanks for helping us understand how great of a job Issa did with this.

 

[Bowfinger]

If that's the case, a simple "I don't know" would have been the correct answer. No need to try and stall or obfuscate, just a simple yes/no/idk would be fine.

Trying to provide accurate, informative answers is obfuscation only in the minds of blind partisans. Issa's questions were fundamentally bogus, demanding a yes/no answer to a flawed premise. Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no, those are your only options and if you start to "obfuscate" I'm going to cut you off.

It was pure theater, playing to the RNC faithful. Sadly it's a tactic that works all too well.

So basically what you're saying is that the point Issa was trying to make was 100% right, the statistics used for measuring "green" jobs are complete BS. Issa did a great job getting that point made in just a few moments.

No doubt that's what you heard. It is not at all what I said, however.

No, Galvin tried to provide more spin BS and dance around the answer. Issa apparently did a masterful job, he got us to see that the "green" jobs stats are a complete joke and waste of time, and exposed the lies of the administration.

Thanks for helping us understand how great of a job Issa did with this.

Don't thank me. I had nothing to do with it. The partisan faithful formed their "understanding" long ago, then religiously filter facts and data that contradict it. I cannot penetrate that blind faith any more than one can use facts and data to change someone's religious beliefs. My posts are for those with open minds and good critical thinking skills, to ensure they hear a balanced story so they can make informed judgments.

 

[Exterous]

If that's the case, a simple "I don't know" would have been the correct answer.

Yeah and I am sure they would let him off so easy on an 'I don't know' answer.

Issa: "So...wait - let me get this straight. You are the commissioner in charge of this and you don't know the answers to simple questions? Just what, exactly, are you doing with your time?"

I am not saying its right or wrong but that is too easy of an opportunity to pass up for pretty much any politician

 

[Ninjahedge]

Lesson learned here is that the people have to stop swallowing this stuff hook line and sinker, commend their reps for questioning things that are overstated, but CRITICIZE THEM FOR OVERSTATING/ FABRICATING THEIR OWN POSITIONS!!!

Geez. The ONLY way these guys will do what we want is if we start telling the ones we supported to knock it off. This is not a war zone. War zone politics is one of the easiest ways to gloss over your own parties shortcomings and point a finger at "them" in hopes that your baby beating is ignored "for the greater good".

Both parties do this and the sheeple follow.

 

[PokerGuy]

Issa's questions were fundamentally bogus, demanding a yes/no answer to a flawed premise.

Flawed premise? It's a very simple yes / no question. Is <insert job here> tallied as a green job or not. Yes or no. The premise is irrelevant, unless you're trying to stall or obfuscate.

Have you stopped beating your wife? Yes or no, those are your only options and if you start to "obfuscate" I'm going to cut you off.

Sure, because asking a specific question about how something is tallied is the same as asking about criminal behavior. Delusional indeed.

It was pure theater, playing to the RNC faithful. Sadly it's a tactic that works all too well.

No, not sadly, it's a good thing. He effectively got to the core of the issue very quickly. No smoke and mirrors, no "it depends on what your definition of is is" type nonsense. Straight forward, in a few seconds we can all see that the stats touted by the administration are BS. Simple and effective.

Don't thank me. I had nothing to do with it.

Yep, you did, you helped show how Issa did an excellent job getting right to the core of the matter.

The partisan faithful formed their "understanding" long ago, then religiously filter facts and data that contradict it. I cannot penetrate that blind faith any more than one can use facts and data to change someone's religious beliefs.

The funny (and ironic) thing is, what you posted about the partisan faithful actually refers to you, but you can't see it.

 

[Bowfinger]

Yeah and I am sure they would let him off so easy on an 'I don't know' answer.

Issa: "So...wait - let me get this straight. You are the commissioner in charge of this and you don't know the answers to simple questions? Just what, exactly, are you doing with your time?"

I am not saying its right or wrong but that is too easy of an opportunity to pass up for pretty much any politician

Sadly, Issa's not even that honest. From the transcript, any time Galvin said he didn't know the answer Issa immediately interrupted and testified for him, always insisting that "Yes", BLS does count that as a green job. It makes one wonder why Issa held the hearing at all, given that he already thought he knew the answers to his questions.

Pure political theater.

 

[Bowfinger]

Flawed premise? It's a very simple yes / no question. Is <insert job here> tallied as a green job or not. Yes or no. The premise is irrelevant, unless you're trying to stall or obfuscate. ...

Have you stopped beating your wife? It's a simple yes/no question. Come on! Answer! Answer now! Yes or no? Answer right this second or I'll tell you the answer I want to hear.

No, they were NOT simple yes/no questions. Had you actually bothered to read what I posted, or even gone directly to BLS as I did, you would have learned that BLS itself does NOT count specific jobs. They create definitions of eligible INDUSTRIES. Then companies within those industries self report based on the source of their revenue. Can you get that? Does any of that penetrate your partisan filter? Issa's questions could not be accurately answered with a yes or a no, even though that's how he framed them. It's like asking how tall are you, yes or no?

The questions were inherently dishonest, and required more than a yes/no answer.

No, not sadly, it's a good thing. He effectively got to the core of the issue very quickly. No smoke and mirrors, no "it depends on what your definition of is is" type nonsense. Straight forward, in a few seconds we can all see that the stats touted by the administration are BS. Simple and effective. ...

Indeed. Simple and effective ... for simple minds who care more about their party than about accurate information. It was great propaganda, and you've lapped it up just as Issa expected.

The funny (and ironic) thing is, what you posted about the partisan faithful actually refers to you, but you can't see it.

Lulz. I'm the one who said straight out that the Obama administration has overstated the number of green jobs it's created. You're the one who never, ever says anything that doesn't strictly toe the RNC line, who consistently ignores all facts and data in favor of your emotional beliefs. Physician, heal thyself.

 

[ElFenix]

That is our political system in a nutshell. One party makes a claim that is 10% truth and 90% lies, the other party calls them on the 90% lies and then adds its own 90% lies.

I'd say any job selling used items is more or less a green job, since it's recycling something that would otherwise be thrown away and presumably bought new.

it's not sexy or glamorous but it's probably correct. the greenest car is the one you already have.

 

[cybrsage]

All the workers at a solar plant need to count as "green jobs", for without the guy cleaning the plant, it would not be able to operate. This is no different from any other industry.

 

[cybrsage]

it's not sexy or glamorous but it's probably correct. the greenest car is the one you already have.

Dunno about that. My friend has an 11 MPG old pickup which both burns and leaks oil.