Obama Goes Around Constitution (Again) To Disarm US

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Obama made with his "nuclear" agreement with his comrades in Russia by subverting Constitution

"MOSCOW -- With the clock running out on a new US-Russian arms treaty before the previous Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty, or START, expires on December 5, a senior White House official said Sunday said that the difficulty of the task might mean temporarily bypassing the Senate?s constitutional role in ratifying treaties by enforcing certain aspects of a new deal on an executive levels and a ?provisional basis? until the Senate ratifies the treaty."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/polit...cation-for-treaty.html




Concerning the same agreement, UK Telegraph writers could hardly contain their scorn for the "Looney Tunes" irrationality of it all.


One writer for the Telegraph (Nile Gardiner) wrote a story titled "Is Obama The Most Naive president in history ?"

Gardiner wonders just what the US gains from Obama's defense cut since it serves to reduce US nuke capability to Russia's advantage:

"The whole agreement makes no sense, and is little more than a vanity exercise for Barack Obama who has ludicrously pledged to carve out a nuclear-free world. Surely a better strategy would be to further build up America?s defences, including a global missile defence shield, rather than cut defence spending and further gut the superpower?s nuclear capability.

At this rate, even Jimmy Carter looks like General Patton compared to the dove-like current U.S. president. Why cut nuclear weapons at a time when rogue regimes such as North Korea and Iran are busy building their own programmes? Does the President seriously believe this move will encourage the likes of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong Il to renounce their nuclear designs? What evidence is there in history that a unilateral policy of disarmament will prompt tyrannical regimes to change their behaviour?...

The Obama administration?s naive approach will strengthen the resolve of America?s enemies such as Iran to aggressively pursue their nuclear ambitions and exploit the weakness of a president who is gravely undercutting American global power in an increasingly dangerous world."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/n...esident-in-us-history/



Concerning the same gutting of defense, another writer in the Telegraph (Gerald Warner) writes " the Looney Tunes President?s sell-out of US and Western interests is proceeding at such a speed that it is difficult to keep pace". His supposed missile deal with Vladimir Putin..is very satisfactory to Russian ambitions and realpolitik..


For America voluntarily to reduce its nuclear superiority is madness. Bien-pensant talk of a nuclear-free world displays total stupidity in a global situation where nuclear weaponry is proliferating, not receding. There is even a nuclear bomb in Pakistan, which is teetering on the brink of failed statehood at the hands of Islamist insurgents. Is this a time for America to disarm, to ?sell the store? as one trenchant right-wing commentator has already described Obama?s posturing in Moscow?

For Obama, success is not the delivery of watertight nuclear security for America; it is a feel-good news conference and photo opportunity that will create huge approval ratings on liberal campuses where the delusions of 1968 and the anti-Vietnam war movement still linger on in these isolated Jurassic Parks.

It seems certain Obama will sacrifice the anti-missile shield in Europe that would have been our defence against a nuclear Iran after the ayatollahs, with Russian help, emerge as potential vapourising agents of the infidel. The interceptor missiles do not even carry warheads: they rely on an impact at 14,900mph to destroy any incoming missile, so Russian hysteria about this ?threat? is synthetic."

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/n...ar-defences-in-moscow/


While Obama was on tour it was interesting to note the Russians also thought Obama was more style than substance. One student quoted in NY Times said:

"We don?t really understand why Obama is such a star,? said Kirill Zagorodnov, 25, one of the graduates. ?It?s a question of trust, how he behaves, how he positions himself, that typical charisma, which in Russia is often parodied. Russians really are not accustomed to it. It is like he is trying to manipulate the public.?

Another young Russian described a split over Obama's election: ?Students in Moscow, they are pretty positive about this,? he said. ?It?s cool, modern, progressive. All the students know American history, they know about segregation, so it shows us about democracy, how it can be.?

But the same cannot be said for average Russians, he said, adding: ?It looks weird to them. They just think that America has gone crazy.?


"In Russia, Obama?s Star Power Does Not Translate"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07...ope/08russia.html?_r=1
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
should be interesting to see what happens. doing a end run around the constitution is not a good idea. but if its just a stop gap until congress can agree and vote i don't see the issue.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,092
53,443
136
None of these cuts in any way impact our ability to annihilate North Korea and Iran a dozen times over. Obama is not circumventing any part of the treaty ratification process by reducing these arms, and it is totally within his executive authority unless there is some explicit Congressional action that requires him to maintain a certain number of warheads. Are you aware of any such action? The purpose of the Senate ratifying the treaty is so that Obama can't go back and increase warhead counts in the future and so it would act as a future restriction on executive action. Implementing parts of a treaty that you already have power over is nothing of the sort.

I also find it interesting that Russia cannot fathom how Obama can be so popular when they had such a cult of personality around Putin that the whole country was fawning over shirtless pictures of Putin. Really Russia?
 

NeoV

Diamond Member
Apr 18, 2000
9,504
2
81
I am pretty sure that this Barry guy is one of Butterbean's highly medicated personalities
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
For those who might be confused by this 'comrades is Russia' rhetoric, START was originally the brainchild of the Reagan administration in 1982, and START II was signed by GHW Bush in '93.

In addition, for the executive to enforce certain aspects of treaty that is certain to be ratified by the Senate prior to its actual ratification is a practice that dates back to George Washington.

So IOW, the OP is an alarmist dipshit spreading his usual partisan rhetoric, nothing new to see here. Personally, what I don't like about people like the OP is that they're 'wolf criers.' God forbid something really serious actually happen, they've cried wolf so many times...
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,613
6,169
126
Originally posted by: Vic
For those who might be confused by this 'comrades is Russia' rhetoric, START was originally the brainchild of the Reagan administration in 1982, and START II was signed by GHW Bush in '93.

In addition, for the executive to enforce certain aspects of treaty that is certain to be ratified by the Senate prior to its actual ratification is a practice that dates back to George Washington.

So IOW, the OP is an alarmist dipshit spreading his usual partisan rhetoric, nothing new to see here. Personally, what I don't like about people like the OP is that they're 'wolf criers.' God forbid something really serious actually happen, they've cried wolf so many times...

Reagan, part of the Hollywood Elite, was obviously a Soviet double Agent!! :laugh:
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
I guess this Barry troll..is a brother of Butterbean or possibly Winnar111...sad
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Another epic failure by the OP. Please stay gone this time and peddle this garbage elsewhere.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: waggy
should be interesting to see what happens. doing a end run around the constitution is not a good idea. but if its just a stop gap until congress can agree and vote i don't see the issue.

That would make sense with a normal "America First" president but as we know Obama has said himself he regards the Constitution as cumbersome and a hindrance to hasty action (as it was designed to do). Obama has also never met a US enemy or risk agent he didn't have sympathy for.

Keep in mind Obama knows how to play between the margins of the Constitution and will ignore any strict adherence if he doesn't get called out on his actions in a meaningful way. Obama is already off the farm with his 28 "czars" that work inter-departmentally, are not reviewed by Congress and answer only to Obama. The self described "rowdy black nationalist" an Marxist,"Green jobs" czar Van Jones is one person who could never pass an FBI check but is working for Obama.

Democrat Sen Robert Byrd said these czars are unconstitutional and President Obama?s ?czar strategy? is an unprecedented power grab centralizing authority in the White House, outside congressional oversight and in violation of the Constitution.

Of course Obama also kicked Constitution to the curb when he cheated legal creditors of their investments and gave it to unions at Chrysler - a real Chavez moment.

He also flirted with Constitutional prohibitions against Bills Of Attainder ( inflicts punishment on a person through an act of legislation, without a trial) with his threat to tax AIG execs who were given bonuses that the Obama folks basically had them take in the first place. That was a Kabuki show to stoke masses.

James Madison wrote: ?Bills of attainder, ex-post-facto laws, and laws impairing the obligation of contracts, are contrary to the first principles of the social compact, and to every principle of sound legislation. The two former are expressly prohibited by the declarations prefixed to some of the state constitutions, and all of them are prohibited by the spirit and scope of these fundamental charters.?

A good article about this fiasco was in Wall St journal

Chrysler and the Rule of Law
The Founders put the contracts clause in the Constitution for a reason.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124217356836613091.html


With regard to the nuke treaty, the excuse that a deadline was coming up means little since the present agreement could have been extended. It was already in and out of adherence when Russia protested Iraq invasion.

The "White House Coordinator for Weapons of Mass Destruction" (Gary Samore) mentioned in article is one of the Czars . ABC's Tapper describes what Samore said about a situation where Senate has not acted to ratify treaty:


"Samore said administration lawyers are exploring the 'different options that are available. One option is that both sides could agree to continue the inspections by executive agreement; that would work on our side. On the Russian side, as I understand it, that would require Duma approval."

Ah so Russia needs Duma approval but the US can continue by executive agreement.


Senate ratification may not be a slam dunk either because Obama's pact goes against a recent amendment to NDAA:


"Baker Spring, a national security expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation, predicted that ?potentially it can be very difficult? to get the Senate to agree to a nuclear treaty with Russia.

Spring noted that last month the House adopted an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act prohibiting the use of funds for implementing an agreement with Russia to reduce nuclear forces unless Obama certifies that it does not limit missile defense systems, space capabilities or advanced conventional weapons.

The tentative agreement between Obama and Medvedev already appears to violate that provision by calling for a limit on delivery vehicles, such as submarine-based missiles and bombers, which can be used to deliver conventional payloads."


http://thehill.com/leading-the...weapon-2009-07-07.html


John Bolton calls the delivery system cuts particularly dangerous

"Not only are the proposed cuts in nuclear weapons levels dangerous, but the reductions in delivery systems are even more reckless, as the United States now significantly relies on such systems to deliver conventional warheads. Russia does not.


Obama's approach weakens our nuclear and conventional capabilities, while leaving Russia exactly at levels to which it would otherwise be driven by its own bleak economic realities"

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped...eakens-us-posture.html

Obama is basically cutting US strength and not getting anything in return. Obama is sacrificing US security for a feel good political moment. Obama always sees the US as the problem and needing to make concessions - even in the face of real and growing threats.














 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: eskimospy
None of these cuts in any way impact our ability to annihilate North Korea and Iran a dozen times over. Obama is not circumventing any part of the treaty ratification process by reducing these arms, and it is totally within his executive authority unless there is some explicit Congressional action that requires him to maintain a certain number of warheads. Are you aware of any such action? The purpose of the Senate ratifying the treaty is so that Obama can't go back and increase warhead counts in the future and so it would act as a future restriction on executive action. Implementing parts of a treaty that you already have power over is nothing of the sort.

I also find it interesting that Russia cannot fathom how Obama can be so popular when they had such a cult of personality around Putin that the whole country was fawning over shirtless pictures of Putin. Really Russia?


Do you must practice sounding like you know what your talking about? You demonstrate a naive and puerile perspective on national defense by limiting debate to how many times the US could hit NK or Iran.

Obama is well ahead of himself on his little pact. He makes commitments without waiting for an up-to-date "nuclear posture review," the definitive mechanism for assessing America's strategic needs.

http://blogs.usatoday.com/oped...eakens-us-posture.html



As mentioned in my post above Obama is already at odds with recent amendment to NDAA


"Baker Spring, a national security expert at the conservative Heritage Foundation, predicted that ?potentially it can be very difficult? to get the Senate to agree to a nuclear treaty with Russia.

Spring noted that last month the House adopted an amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act prohibiting the use of funds for implementing an agreement with Russia to reduce nuclear forces unless Obama certifies that it does not limit missile defense systems, space capabilities or advanced conventional weapons.

The tentative agreement between Obama and Medvedev already appears to violate that provision by calling for a limit on delivery vehicles, such as submarine-based missiles and bombers, which can be used to deliver conventional payloads."

http://thehill.com/leading-the...weapon-2009-07-07.html


Obama is committed to a weak US - if he has to fudge the lines that's just ok with him. Obama is like US anti-logic personified. Whatever is best for the bad guys and harmful for USA - well Obama is down with it. He "rules" like a hostile from another country.

 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
Are you saying that Obama has to abide by a House amendment to the National Defense Authorization Act, which has not been voted on by the Senate or signed, and is not yet law? It's Absurd.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: Vic
For those who might be confused by this 'comrades is Russia' rhetoric, START was originally the brainchild of the Reagan administration in 1982, and START II was signed by GHW Bush in '93.

In addition, for the executive to enforce certain aspects of treaty that is certain to be ratified by the Senate prior to its actual ratification is a practice that dates back to George Washington.

So IOW, the OP is an alarmist dipshit spreading his usual partisan rhetoric, nothing new to see here. Personally, what I don't like about people like the OP is that they're 'wolf criers.' God forbid something really serious actually happen, they've cried wolf so many times...

What Obama is doing now has nothing to do with Reagan or Bush at all - it's certainly as anti Regan as could be. 1993 was along time ago and START II had a very sketchy history.

Obama's "New START" in today's climate is dangerous and retarded. Speaking of wolves, Obama reminds of a Churchill's description of Clement Atlee as "a sheep in sheep's clothing". All the bad guys know Obama wants America weak and neutralized internationally - except maybe showing some gusto for supporting Marxist dictator wannabes like in Honduras. The blood isn't flowing yet but Obama is setting the stage for disaster. He's the worst president we ever had at one of the most dangerous moments.
 

BarrySotero

Banned
Apr 30, 2009
509
0
0
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
So, how many thousands of warheads do we really need?

Enough so that all the other players don't even think about building nukes and winning a nuke war (and they have considered it in past). Why are we measuring our nukes only against Russia? This isn't the 80's when US/USSR nukes numbered 50,000. US has no where near the nukes it used to have and Russia is not only threat.

Who wants to guarantee China doesn't start a drive to do a massive bulk up of nukes? It would entirely fit their program to do that while the US is collapsing into a state of enfeeblement and economic anorexia. I consider China more of a problem than Russia but still consider both along with others.

Obama is like a sheriff with a semi auto who goes into a bar with a half dozen bad guys and figures he can keep the peace better by swapping out the semi for a bolt action since any advantage might be provocative and menacing - oh and he will only keep as many bullets as one of the bad guys - never mind the other 5.

Keep in mind its not just warheads either Obama is busting but delivery.

Worst of all is the bad timing and the crescendo of other Obama moves that I can only describe as a strenuous rush to weakness or peace through vulnerability. He apologizes for America everywhere he goes, sends almost a billion to Hamas/Gaza, sends plane parts to Syria ending an embargo, throws Israel down the well, shows genuine enthusiasm for Chavez, Ortega etc., flips UK the bird, winks off North Korea, turns a blind eye to Iran (got more kids murdered too because of it) stands up for Marxist wanabe in Honduras - and now he rushes ahead of Congress using deadline excuse (present treaty could easily be extended) to gut US strength for nothing in return.

If a president wanted to do maximum damage to US, while preserving a minimum off a tattered excuse for doing so then Obama is that guy.
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,986
3,320
126
Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
So, how many thousands of warheads do we really need?

Enough so that all the other players don't even think about building nukes and winning a nuke war (and they have considered it in past). Why are we measuring our nukes only against Russia? This isn't the 80's when US/USSR nukes numbered 50,000. US has no where near the nukes it used to have and Russia is not only threat.

Who wants to guarantee China doesn't start a drive to do a massive bulk up of nukes? It would entirely fit their program to do that while the US is collapsing into a state of enfeeblement and economic anorexia. I consider China more of a problem than Russia but still consider both along with others.

Obama is like a sheriff with a semi auto who goes into a bar with a half dozen bad guys and figures he can keep the peace better by swapping out the semi for a bolt action since any advantage might be provocative and menacing - oh and he will only keep as many bullets as one of the bad guys - never mind the other 5.

Keep in mind its not just warheads either Obama is busting but delivery.

Worst of all is the bad timing and the crescendo of other Obama moves that I can only describe as a strenuous rush to weakness or peace through vulnerability. He apologizes for America everywhere he goes, sends almost a billion to Hamas/Gaza, sends plane parts to Syria ending an embargo, throws Israel down the well, shows genuine enthusiasm for Chavez, Ortega etc., flips UK the bird, winks off North Korea, turns a blind eye to Iran (got more kids murdered too because of it) stands up for Marxist wanabe in Honduras - and now he rushes ahead of Congress using deadline excuse (present treaty could easily be extended) to gut US strength for nothing in return.

If a president wanted to do maximum damage to US, while preserving a minimum off a tattered excuse for doing so then Obama is that guy.

your thinking is that of a juvenile!! The world is NOT better off with nuclear wepons!!
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
350
126
Originally posted by: sandorski

Reagan, part of the Hollywood Elite, was obviously a Soviet double Agent!! :laugh:

Washington Post reviewing:

Ronald Reagan and His Quest to Abolish Nuclear Weapons

Paul Lettow has found the purloined letter of the Reagan presidency: the fact that much of his Cold War policy was driven by a desire to eliminate all nuclear weapons. This aspect of Reagan is part of the public record but has so far been hidden in plain view because it doesn't seem to fit his conservatism and seems so otherwise outlandish.

...Reagan... wanted to do away with nuclear weapons entirely, perhaps because he thought the biblical story of Armageddon foretold a nuclear war...

Many of Reagan's aides were appalled by his "ridiculous" nuclear abolitionism. Such advisers as Secretary of State Alexander Haig and U.S. Arms Control and Disarmament Agency Director Kenneth Adelman occasionally tried to dissuade him from it or at the very least keep him from airing it publicly (both to no avail). Reagan's nuclear aversion ran so deep that his aides got the sense that, incredibly, he didn't even know if he would retaliate against a Soviet first strike...

National Security Adviser John Poindexter, tried to suppress the magnitude of what had been discussed. They were shocked by Reagan's willingness to go to zero.
 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
your thinking is that of a juvenile!! The world is NOT better off with nuclear wepons!!

Actually... it means wars can not escalate to a level they used to. In that case, the world is slightly better off with enough nukes distributed around the world by different powers.
 

CitizenKain

Diamond Member
Jul 6, 2000
4,480
14
76
Originally posted by: BarrySotero


What Obama is doing now has nothing to do with Reagan or Bush at all - it's certainly as anti Regan as could be.

There is nothing nice you could say about anyone then they are anti-Regan.
 

OutHouse

Lifer
Jun 5, 2000
36,410
616
126
Originally posted by: Vic
For those who might be confused by this 'comrades is Russia' rhetoric, START was originally the brainchild of the Reagan administration in 1982, and START II was signed by GHW Bush in '93.

In addition, for the executive to enforce certain aspects of treaty that is certain to be ratified by the Senate prior to its actual ratification is a practice that dates back to George Washington.

So IOW, the OP is an alarmist dipshit spreading his usual partisan rhetoric, nothing new to see here. Personally, what I don't like about people like the OP is that they're 'wolf criers.' God forbid something really serious actually happen, they've cried wolf so many times...

Yip, i was stationed at grand forks air force base North dakota when the Russian inspectors came on base to inspect our ICBM silos and in some cases were given the honor of setting off the explosives that destroyed the silos. it was werid standing in Central Security Control in North Dakota with a Russian Officer. i so wanted to yell "WOLVERINES" LOL. my Capt said if i did that he would have my ass and a few of my stripes.

 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
Originally posted by: Possessed Freak
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
your thinking is that of a juvenile!! The world is NOT better off with nuclear wepons!!

Actually... it means wars can not escalate to a level they used to. In that case, the world is slightly better off with enough nukes distributed around the world by different powers.


right now the fact we have enough nukes to wipe any country off the face of the planet keeps many in line. it worked fo ryears with russia.

i won't say they won't escalate to the level they used to. I wouldnt be shocked to see a WW again. There are very few stupid enough to use nukes against the US and hopefully they never get enough nukes to do anything with.

right now if we went to war with russia it wouldnt end in nukes.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: JEDIYoda
Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
So, how many thousands of warheads do we really need?

Enough so that all the other players don't even think about building nukes and winning a nuke war (and they have considered it in past). Why are we measuring our nukes only against Russia? This isn't the 80's when US/USSR nukes numbered 50,000. US has no where near the nukes it used to have and Russia is not only threat.

Who wants to guarantee China doesn't start a drive to do a massive bulk up of nukes? It would entirely fit their program to do that while the US is collapsing into a state of enfeeblement and economic anorexia. I consider China more of a problem than Russia but still consider both along with others.

Obama is like a sheriff with a semi auto who goes into a bar with a half dozen bad guys and figures he can keep the peace better by swapping out the semi for a bolt action since any advantage might be provocative and menacing - oh and he will only keep as many bullets as one of the bad guys - never mind the other 5.

Keep in mind its not just warheads either Obama is busting but delivery.

Worst of all is the bad timing and the crescendo of other Obama moves that I can only describe as a strenuous rush to weakness or peace through vulnerability. He apologizes for America everywhere he goes, sends almost a billion to Hamas/Gaza, sends plane parts to Syria ending an embargo, throws Israel down the well, shows genuine enthusiasm for Chavez, Ortega etc., flips UK the bird, winks off North Korea, turns a blind eye to Iran (got more kids murdered too because of it) stands up for Marxist wanabe in Honduras - and now he rushes ahead of Congress using deadline excuse (present treaty could easily be extended) to gut US strength for nothing in return.

If a president wanted to do maximum damage to US, while preserving a minimum off a tattered excuse for doing so then Obama is that guy.

your thinking is that of a juvenile!! The world is NOT better off with nuclear wepons!!

He IS a juvenile. He is a teenager posting this tripe from his parents basement on his parents computer via his parents ISP. What more do you expect from a scared, impotent child? It is what it is, crayon scratchings from someone with zero real world experience.
 

JKing106

Platinum Member
Mar 19, 2009
2,193
0
0
Originally posted by: BarrySotero
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
So, how many thousands of warheads do we really need?

Enough so that all the other players don't even think about building nukes and winning a nuke war (and they have considered it in past). Why are we measuring our nukes only against Russia? This isn't the 80's when US/USSR nukes numbered 50,000. US has no where near the nukes it used to have and Russia is not only threat.

Who wants to guarantee China doesn't start a drive to do a massive bulk up of nukes? It would entirely fit their program to do that while the US is collapsing into a state of enfeeblement and economic anorexia. I consider China more of a problem than Russia but still consider both along with others.

Obama is like a sheriff with a semi auto who goes into a bar with a half dozen bad guys and figures he can keep the peace better by swapping out the semi for a bolt action since any advantage might be provocative and menacing - oh and he will only keep as many bullets as one of the bad guys - never mind the other 5.

Keep in mind its not just warheads either Obama is busting but delivery.

Worst of all is the bad timing and the crescendo of other Obama moves that I can only describe as a strenuous rush to weakness or peace through vulnerability. He apologizes for America everywhere he goes, sends almost a billion to Hamas/Gaza, sends plane parts to Syria ending an embargo, throws Israel down the well, shows genuine enthusiasm for Chavez, Ortega etc., flips UK the bird, winks off North Korea, turns a blind eye to Iran (got more kids murdered too because of it) stands up for Marxist wanabe in Honduras - and now he rushes ahead of Congress using deadline excuse (present treaty could easily be extended) to gut US strength for nothing in return.

If a president wanted to do maximum damage to US, while preserving a minimum off a tattered excuse for doing so then Obama is that guy.

Why are you so afraid?

 

Possessed Freak

Diamond Member
Nov 4, 1999
6,045
1
0
Originally posted by: waggy
i won't say they won't escalate to the level they used to. I wouldnt be shocked to see a WW again.

We might get a World War, but I bet the level of death will be less. It will be tricky to find out a suitable level of engagement without *the bomb* used as a determent... "Carpet bomb us and we will drop *the bomb*".