Obama gives up on getting an Israeli settlement freeze.

[Lemon law]

Although not yet a hard fact, it does look like President Obama has given up all hopes of bribing Israeli into accepting even a partial 90 day extension of a settlement freeze. As Israel
has done nothing yet, so Obama's Bribes also die with the lack of Israeli action.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/08/world/middleeast/08diplo.html?ref=global-hom

The question becomes, will there be a US plan B, which may come 12/10, or will be Obama just give up and join a long list of past failed US Presidents?

But to some extent, if some other nation takes up the role of mid-east peace talks mediators, they may not have to face internal anywhere near comparable to the pressure from pro-Israeli lobbyists as found in the USA.

And therefore that other state is far more likely than the US to forge a world consensus for a Palestinian State on far less friendly to Israel terms. And if the US then defies the rest of the world to save Israeli butt, it can only further Isolate the USA and estrange it from their allies.

 

[Infohawk]

The real plan is the same that's been going on for years. The US will allow Israel to slowly colonize all of what was formally Palestine. Presidents have been giving you a song and dance to the contrary for years but nothing else is going to change. The world might care more if the Muslim world wasn't so busy exploding themselves and killing people.

 

[EagleKeeper]

Officials said the administration decided to pull the plug because it concluded that even if Mr. Netanyahu persuaded his cabinet to accept an extension — which he had not yet been able to do — the 90-day negotiating period would not have produced the progress on core issues that the administration originally had hoped for.

“There were different expectations on the terms of moratorium, the issues to be discussed during the moratorium, and what would happen after the moratorium expired,” said a person briefed on the decision.

Obama was hoping for more than what could be deliverred in that time frame.

Israel may have understood the Palestiinian mindset more than Obama does.

Let us see what the Plan B is

Or we are back to the Palestinians wanting preconditions to talk and Israel stating that they froze once with no result, therefore no more freezes.

 

[Lemon law]

It may be hard to disagree with Eaglekeeper per say, but ome minor quible with the EK statement of, "Israel may have understood the Palestiinian mindset more than Obama does." Or is it that Israel knows how more how to wag the tail of the US dog than Obama does?

But the Obama brokered peace talks have effectively temporarily halted the freedom flotillas and other world opposition to Israel actions that were starting to boil last summer, and if Obama just gives up, what happened last summer may come back with a renewed vengeance.

The other thing to point out is that one now longer good Obama pledge was a promise to veto any UN resolution declaring a Palestinian State, and now what Brazil recently did in endorsing such a Palestinian State may now be followed by a large number of other countries in the UN.

 

[Zebo]

The real plan is the same that's been going on for years. The US will allow Israel to slowly colonize all of what was formally Palestine. Presidents have been giving you a song and dance to the contrary for years but nothing else is going to change. The world might care more if the Muslim world wasn't so busy exploding themselves and killing people.

Palestinian mandate was for a Jewish national home that includes Judea an Samaria. Even says so in charter. How can you take land from a non country BTW? That's like taking land from the moon. Oh but the -so-called Palestinians (arabs) don't want to declare borders. Stops them in their primary objective of taking Israel. Fuck em.

 

[Nebor]

The real plan is the same that's been going on for years. The US will allow Israel to slowly colonize all of what was formally Palestine. Presidents have been giving you a song and dance to the contrary for years but nothing else is going to change. The world might care more if the Muslim world wasn't so busy exploding themselves and killing people.

Huge :thumbsup: to this whole post.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Haha LL you remember when I told you the freeze would be over and nothing would happen? So here it is, to the second degree. No one take the Palestinians seriously; not after the stunts pulled by Arafat, the violence and takeover of Gaza made by Hamas and the incompetence of Abbas. They are a nuisance, nothing more.

 

[Lemon law]

Sammy, in only a week there are three states following Brazil's lead, by the end of the year it may be up to 30+.

Sammy, your delusion may be that the world gives a shit about Israel when they are the greatest threat to mid-east stability.

After 43 years of occupying land Israel can't ever own, all Israeli excuses are worn ever ever thinner. Abbas and even Hamas are behaving far better than Israel right now.

As for your delusion that the world will blame the Palestinians for refusing to participate in the Israel charade of talk and talk while grubbing ever more land, that Israeli charade died its final death at Annapolis, and like any produce, that product has only limited shelf before its unsellable.

 

[Zebo]

What gives Brazil or even 30 nations the right to give what is not theirs?

I guess they could come in and take it. In the meantime.

 

[Infohawk]

Sammy, in only a week there are three states following Brazil's lead, by the end of the year it may be up to 30+.

Sammy, your delusion may be that the world gives a shit about Israel when they are the greatest threat to mid-east stability.

After 43 years of occupying land Israel can't ever own, all Israeli excuses are worn ever ever thinner. Abbas and even Hamas are behaving far better than Israel right now.

As for your delusion that the world will blame the Palestinians for refusing to participate in the Israel charade of talk and talk while grubbing ever more land, that Israeli charade died its final death at Annapolis, and like any produce, that product has only limited shelf before its unsellable.

I think it's sad that you have so much hope for Palestine. You're only going to be disappointed. Stop wasting your life and focus on something else, like how evil the TSA for not wanting plastic explosives to be taken on planes.

 

[Lemon law]

I think it's sad that you have so much hope for Palestine. You're only going to be disappointed. Stop wasting your life and focus on something else, like how evil the TSA for not wanting plastic explosives to be taken on planes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How dumb can you get Infohawk?

Don't you realize that the US unconditional enabling of Israeli thievery if one of the reasons we need the TSA to prevent angry terrorists from retaliating against the USA.

The USA may have blown it on 911, but the notion that either Israel or the USA will be 100% successful in preventing terrorist attacks from getting through is a fools delusion.

But terrorism is only a symptom of social injustice, and if we want to reduce terrorism, the way is to reduce social injustices.

Like Duh, the USA is bleeding blood and treasure in our so called war on terrorist, and all we have done is to increase the net level of terrorism.

 

[Infohawk]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How dumb can you get Infohawk?

Don't you realize that the US unconditional enabling of Israeli thievery if one of the reasons we need the TSA to prevent angry terrorists from retaliating against the USA.

The USA may have blown it on 911, but the notion that either Israel or the USA will be 100% successful in preventing terrorist attacks from getting through is a fools delusion.

But terrorism is only a symptom of social injustice, and if we want to reduce terrorism, the way is to reduce social injustices.

Like Duh, the USA is bleeding blood and treasure in our so called war on terrorist, and all we have done is to increase the net level of terrorism.

I'm not so dumb that I keep screaming into the wind about something that's not going to change.

It sounds like you're saying support Palestine or more Muslims will blow themselves up. Guess what? Muslims are going to blow themselves up anyway. Not interested in being blackmailed.

 

[irishScott]

I'm not so dumb that I keep screaming into the wind about something that's not going to change.

It sounds like you're saying support Palestine or more Muslims will blow themselves up. Guess what? Muslims are going to blow themselves up anyway. Not interested in being blackmailed.

I'd say "screaming into the wind about something I can't change" but beyond that completely agree.

Even if LL's wet dream came true and the US backed a Palestinian state and withdrew all support from Israel, the terrorists would simply see it as their Gettysburg. Israel is not the only policy issue terrorists have with the US by far. So where exactly does it stop? Sounds like LL thinks we should just comply with terrorist demands to prevent terrorism.

 

[Sinsear]

I keep seeing this "30+" by year end being thrown around. Please tell which countries does this "30+" include?

 

[Lemon law]

Info hawk asserts, "I'm not so dumb that I keep screaming into the wind about something that's not going to change."

Funny Infohawk, that is exactly what South Africa Apartheid fan boys thought too, and
they had a far longer run at it than the mere 62 years Israel has thus far enjoyed.

 

[Drift3r]

Palestinian mandate was for a Jewish national home that includes Judea an Samaria. Even says so in charter. How can you take land from a non country BTW? That's like taking land from the moon. Oh but the -so-called Palestinians (arabs) don't want to declare borders. Stops them in their primary objective of taking Israel. Fuck em.

Bingo! We have a winner.

 

[Infohawk]

Info hawk asserts, "I'm not so dumb that I keep screaming into the wind about something that's not going to change."

Funny Infohawk, that is exactly what South Africa Apartheid fan boys thought too, and
they had a far longer run at it than the mere 62 years Israel has thus far enjoyed.

Bad analogy because the situations are different.

Can you tell me more about how terrorism is blackmail? Interesting perspective.

 

[senseamp]

So what's the Israeli plan down the road if there is no 2 state solution?
-One, but no longer majority Jewish state?
-Ethnic cleansing?
-Perpetual Apartheid?

 

[Infohawk]

So what's the Israeli plan down the road if there is no 2 state solution?
-One, but no longer majority Jewish state?
-Ethnic cleansing?
-Perpetual Apartheid?

The same plan they've had all along. Cleansing and marginalization of non-Jews in the country so that they can never take political control away from Jews.

 

[Nebor]

The same plan they've had all along. Cleansing and marginalization of non-Jews in the country so that they can never take political control away from Jews.

I agree. The two-tiered citizenship system currently in place is a vital key to the future of Israel.

 

[Zebo]

So what's the Israeli plan down the road if there is no 2 state solution?
-One, but no longer majority Jewish state?
-Ethnic cleansing?
-Perpetual Apartheid?

That's what happened to them in Arab world hence need for Jewish state.

I'll tell you what allow them their lands, now oil fields, back in Saudi before they were butchered and chased out, back in the rest of ME and "Palestinians" can have that worthless spec of dust which amounts to 1/800th of the total land mass where they used to live called Israel.

 

[SamurAchzar]

Sammy, your delusion may be that the world gives a shit about Israel when they are the greatest threat to mid-east stability.

Funny you should say that; so far, Israel has been the largest contributor to mid east stability. Sadly, the hate towards Jews has been a uniting factor for Sunni, Shiites and Salafis. You rarely see such cooperation outside of this context. Israel is also vital for the Arab leaders themselves, as long as it's there and can be blamed for everything (literally; Egyptian officials just blamed the Mossad for releasing a shark near Sinai shores to drive tourism away :hmm, they are free from domestic pressure.

 

[SamurAchzar]

I agree. The two-tiered citizenship system currently in place is a vital key to the future of Israel.

There is no such thing as two-tiered citizenships. The Palestinians aren't Israeli citizens. The Israeli-Arabs living inside the 67 borders are full rights citizens.
I'm amused when Israel is described as an apartheid state, as this term is used to describe discrimination between your citizens, not between you citizens and foreigners.

Things will remain the same for some more years, Gaza in lockdown, some PA hold of the West Bank. I don't see any reason for it to change, the Palestinians are unable to run a country even if Israel would let them.
Like the head of Mossad, Meir Dagan, said in one of the WL cables, the only thing the international monetary assistance to the Palestinians did is to get some individuals into the Fortune 500 list. LOL.

 

[Zebo]

There is no such thing as two-tiered citizenships. The Palestinians aren't Israeli citizens. The Israeli-Arabs living inside the 67 borders are full rights citizens.
I'm amused when Israel is described as an apartheid state, as this term is used to describe discrimination between your citizens, not between you citizens and foreigners.

Things will remain the same for some more years, Gaza in lockdown, some PA hold of the West Bank. I don't see any reason for it to change, the Palestinians are unable to run a country even if Israel would let them.
Like the head of Mossad, Meir Dagan, said in one of the WL cables, the only thing the international monetary assistance to the Palestinians did is to get some individuals into the Fortune 500 list. LOL.

lol didn't arafat have like 3 billion in a swiss account somewhere when he died all while his people lived lived in squalor. Seems trend continues. Stupid leftists in the west sending money to people who just as soon Daniel Pearl them as look at them. true useful idiots.

 

[EagleKeeper]

It may be hard to disagree with Eaglekeeper per say, but ome minor quible with the EK statement of, "Israel may have understood the Palestiinian mindset more than Obama does." Or is it that Israel knows how more how to wag the tail of the US dog than Obama does?

But the Obama brokered peace talks have effectively temporarily halted the freedom flotillas and other world opposition to Israel actions that were starting to boil last summer, and if Obama just gives up, what happened last summer may come back with a renewed vengeance.

The other thing to point out is that one now longer good Obama pledge was a promise to veto any UN resolution declaring a Palestinian State, and now what Brazil recently did in endorsing such a Palestinian State may now be followed by a large number of other countries in the UN.

Obama is the one that is throwing up his hand in surrender.

The WL cables showed that Israel was willing to work with Palestinians on the border even if it was threatening to the government. and Egypt was willing to put pressure on the Palestinians to come to an agreement

With these ideas now out in the open, they could be the nail in the coffin.

It may be best for the UN to declare a Palestinina state and force the Palestinians to shape up. But where are the Arab sponsors that should be clamouring for such?