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Obama finally starts to ask the tough questions

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
37
91
I don't know what took him so long but he really needs to be sharper when confronting people. Hillary has ran away with the experience argument for far too long. 35 years of experience is a huge lie and it's time she mans up to that.

A bit off-topic but I finally heard the cackling that people have been complaining about. I had to lower the volume cause it really is annoying and awful.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/...ut_a_joint_ticket.html

Obama says it is 'premature to talk about a joint ticket'


Speaking to reporters on his plane before leaving San Antonio for Chicago, Sen. Barack Obama hinted at taking a tougher line against Clinton in the coming weeks, telling reporters that she must back up her experience argument with details, my colleague Carrie Budoff Brown reports.

"I hope people start asking is what exactly is this foreign experience she is claiming," he said. "Was she handling crises during this period of time? I haven?t seen any evidence that she is more equipped to handle a crisis.

"She made the experience argument and her ability to handle a crisis, so I think it is important to examine that claim and not just allow her to assert it," he added. "She has made the argument that she is thoroughly vetted. If the suggestion is somehow that on issue of ethics or disclosure or transparency that she is somehow going to have a better record than I have or could (better) withstand Republican attack, then that should be tested."

"I believe I am in a much stronger position to run against Republicans," he said.

On the media:
"Complaining about the refs apparently worked a little bit this week. So in addition to my call to [Saturday Night Live producer] Lorne Michaels, hopefully now people think everything has evened out."

On a joint ticket:
"We are just focused on winning the nomination. That is my focus. I respect Sen. Clinton. She has been a tenacious opponent. It is premature to talk about a joint ticket."
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
2
0
Obama is not only currently winning, but WILL win the pledged delgates. Whatever he has been doing has worked and worked very well. There is a time for everything.

Personally I see a trump in pushing what experience she says. If she says it was in the Whitehouse, he can turn this around Bill likely to act in the same way she says she did, and then the rhetorical "Are we voting for you or for Bill?"
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
1
0
Why did he/voters EVER accept being first lady as more valid experience than the Illinois state legislature? Why did the media accept her non-answer regarding the tax records at the debate? Why do Clinton supporters continue to ignore the polls showing that Obama can beat McCain while she can't? Why do they run red phone ads touting experience that McCain has the most of?
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
34,993
5,039
126
Obama is a sore loser. As far for dealing with crisis, we just saw Hillary deal with one in her campaign and knock Obama on his butt :D
I'll take Hillary's experience as first lady over Obama's community organizer, present-voting state legislator one. The Clintons successfully ran this country for 8 years, while Obama couldn't even be bothered to vote one way or another to run Illinois :D
Also, Obama has not won either Florida or Ohio, the two states that cost Democrats the election last time.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
heh. tenacious.

nice code word.

Why do Clinton supporters continue to ignore the polls showing that Obama can beat McCain while she can't?
because national polls are meaningless at this point, especially when Obama is only just now starting to face the onslaught. just ask Rudy about poll accuracies 8 months in advance.
 
Dec 10, 2005
21,047
2,528
126
Originally posted by: senseamp
Obama is a sore loser. As far for dealing with crisis, we just saw Hillary deal with one in her campaign and knock Obama on his butt :D
I'll take Hillary's experience as first lady over Obama's community organizer, present-voting state legislator one. The Clintons successfully ran this country for 8 years, while Obama couldn't even be bothered to vote one way or another to run Illinois :D
Also, Obama has not won either Florida or Ohio, the two states that cost Democrats the election last time.

1) Florida moved their primary ahead against DNC rules, so Obama didn't campaign there, and therefore not really a valid result.
2) Last time I checked, Bill was the president for 8 years, not Hillary and Bill, just Bill.
3) Experience as first lady? So she has more experience living in the White House and that's about it. Oh yeah, and that health care initiative that she was put in charge of and promptly ran it into the ground....
4) Obama as a community organizer is important as it shows he understands what people are going through and he can get people to work together for the better. And it's not just that experience that Obama has, he was also a State Legislator.
5) Voting present has its purposes, such as approving of a bill's intentions but not its execution:
Text:
Unlike Congress and the legislatures of most other states, each chamber of the Illinois Legislature requires a ?constitutional majority? to pass a bill. The state Senate has 59 members, so it takes 30 affirmative votes. This makes a ?present? vote the same as a no. If a bill receives 29 votes, but the rest of the senators vote ?present,? it fails.
 

Ldir

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2003
2,184
0
0
Originally posted by: loki8481
Why do Clinton supporters continue to ignore the polls showing that Obama can beat McCain while she can't?
because national polls are meaningless at this point, especially when Obama is only just now starting to face the onslaught. just ask Rudy about poll accuracies 8 months in advance.
No, it is because they are devoted to Hillary and do not want to ruin that with facts.

Here is another fact they want to ignore. Hillary's polling numbers against McCain are as good as they can get. Unlike Hillary Obama has run a pretty clean campaign so far. She has not faced the onslaught of slime like Obama. If she gets the nomination the Republicans will turn the slime machine on high. Her numbers against McCain have nowhere to go but down.
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
Originally posted by: Ldir
Originally posted by: loki8481
Why do Clinton supporters continue to ignore the polls showing that Obama can beat McCain while she can't?
because national polls are meaningless at this point, especially when Obama is only just now starting to face the onslaught. just ask Rudy about poll accuracies 8 months in advance.
No, it is because they are devoted to Hillary and do not want to ruin that with facts.

Here is another fact they want to ignore. Hillary's polling numbers against McCain are as good as they can get. Unlike Hillary Obama has run a pretty clean campaign so far. She has not faced the onslaught of slime like Obama. If she gets the nomination the Republicans will turn the slime machine on high. Her numbers against McCain have nowhere to go but down.
it's funny, I'd say the exact reverse.

Hillary's been in the public spotlight since the early 90's, and republicans have hated her for the entire time... they've already thrown everything there is to throw at her. I don't see her numbers going much lower, because everyone already knows everything there is to know about the Clintons.

if you think Obama's faced a rough campaign from Hillary, you're kidding yourself. she's being nice compared to what he's going to face from the republicans, and he's still a largely unknown quantity to most people. he's got a much lower floor as people learn more and more about him, getting beyond the whole "he's a nice guy and gives a pretty good speech" thing and taking serious looks at his voting record.

Obama's also got a lot more positions that McCain can hammer him on, while Hillary's tried to do her centrist dance the best she can in a democratic primary.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,651
1,883
126
As far for dealing with crisis, we just saw Hillary deal with one in her campaign and knock Obama on his butt
Hillary always had the lead in Ohio and Texas...Obama managed to erode at her lead, and her base, in both states.

I suppose in your eyes, her netting a handful of delegates over Obama across two giant states she was favored to win is a butt kicking.

Arguably, that the Clinton campaign will have to take their case to the DNC is the ultimate butt kicking of all...Obama was a non-entity last summer...what he pulled off, and continues to pull off, is a consistent rejection of Hillary as a candidate.

Just wait until questions like Tax Returns and documents from her time in the White House start hitting the media...she dodged those issues in the past...they will now come front and center.

 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
42,816
83
91
people are going to disagree with me, but I feel like the longer this goes on, the more likely the democrats are to break their pattern of election people without looking at them closely, only to be blindsided by revelations in the GE that should have been exposed in the primary.
 

M0RPH

Diamond Member
Dec 7, 2003
3,305
1
0
Originally posted by: loki8481


Why do Clinton supporters continue to ignore the polls showing that Obama can beat McCain while she can't?
because national polls are meaningless at this point, especially when Obama is only just now starting to face the onslaught. just ask Rudy about poll accuracies 8 months in advance.
Not only are national polls meaningless, they are only an indicator of popular vote, they do not take into consideration the electoral college situations that are important to winning a presidential election. The person to beat McCain will have to do well in battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Michigan, etc.
 

Dari

Lifer
Oct 25, 2002
17,134
37
91
Originally posted by: M0RPH
Originally posted by: loki8481


Why do Clinton supporters continue to ignore the polls showing that Obama can beat McCain while she can't?
because national polls are meaningless at this point, especially when Obama is only just now starting to face the onslaught. just ask Rudy about poll accuracies 8 months in advance.
Not only are national polls meaningless, they are only an indicator of popular vote, they do not take into consideration the electoral college situations that are important to winning a presidential election. The person to beat McCain will have to do well in battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Michigan, etc.
http://www.realclearpolitics.c...latestpolls/index.html
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
13,918
18
81
Originally posted by: SSSnail
Electoral >>>> Popular votes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delegates

Welcome to Politics 101.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27036
Good one.

"The very idea that a 12 delegate advantage from a state like Idaho trumps an 11 delegate advantage from a swing state like New Jersey should be anathema to the party. Nor should racking up a combined 449,000 vote advantage in the ?practically impossible to win? states of Georgia and Alabama be considered more important than a 416,000 vote advantage in a competitive/must-win state like California."

Why is Hillary losing the delegate count?

"While the Clinton campaign has been concentrating its efforts in those states which will be the key to a victory in November, Obama?s people put considerable time and effort into racking up delegates in a slew of states that require a national landslide for a Democrat to win in November."
 

Wreckem

Diamond Member
Sep 23, 2006
9,325
777
126
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: SSSnail
Electoral >>>> Popular votes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delegates

Welcome to Politics 101.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27036
Good one.

"The very idea that a 12 delegate advantage from a state like Idaho trumps an 11 delegate advantage from a swing state like New Jersey should be anathema to the party. Nor should racking up a combined 449,000 vote advantage in the ?practically impossible to win? states of Georgia and Alabama be considered more important than a 416,000 vote advantage in a competitive/must-win state like California."

Why is Hillary losing the delegate count?

"While the Clinton campaign has been concentrating its efforts in those states which will be the key to a victory in November, Obama?s people put considerable time and effort into racking up delegates in a slew of states that require a national landslide for a Democrat to win in November."
Then there is VA which is a swing state now. Obama netted more delegates from VA than she did from Ohio+Texas+RI.

Everyone is saying CA is competitive. It IS NOT competitive this year. The latino vote isnt going to go 60-40. Its going to break 75-25 at best. The latino vote isnt going to vote GOP period.

The swing states for '08 are Missouri, VA, Florida, and Ohio.


 

Fern

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
173
106
Originally posted by: M0RPH
Originally posted by: loki8481


Why do Clinton supporters continue to ignore the polls showing that Obama can beat McCain while she can't?
because national polls are meaningless at this point, especially when Obama is only just now starting to face the onslaught. just ask Rudy about poll accuracies 8 months in advance.
Not only are national polls meaningless, they are only an indicator of popular vote, they do not take into consideration the electoral college situations that are important to winning a presidential election. The person to beat McCain will have to do well in battleground states like Ohio, Florida, Michigan, etc.
That's pure Clinton propaganda.

Only once in the last 100 years or so has the candidate won without the popular vote. So, the popular vote has proven time and again to be extremely important.

Any potential situation giving rise to a popular vote vs electoral collge differnce is far more complex that a few "swing" states.

We only hear this argument because Hillary does well in those states and the average person doesn't understand the electoral college dynamics and can be easily fooled by such nonsense.

Fern
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
11,521
0
76
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Originally posted by: SSSnail
Electoral >>>> Popular votes >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> delegates

Welcome to Politics 101.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/archives_view.php?id=27036
Good one.

"The very idea that a 12 delegate advantage from a state like Idaho trumps an 11 delegate advantage from a swing state like New Jersey should be anathema to the party. Nor should racking up a combined 449,000 vote advantage in the ?practically impossible to win? states of Georgia and Alabama be considered more important than a 416,000 vote advantage in a competitive/must-win state like California."

Why is Hillary losing the delegate count?

"While the Clinton campaign has been concentrating its efforts in those states which will be the key to a victory in November, Obama?s people put considerable time and effort into racking up delegates in a slew of states that require a national landslide for a Democrat to win in November."
Given the fact that the primaries have only pitted Dem vs. Dem, it's very difficult - if not impossible - to correlate the final numbers and make any reliable predictions for November.

The truth of the matter, given the clear lead Clinton had across the entire country six months ago (roughly 20%!), is that Obama has done an amazing job of winning, or dramatically closing the gap, in each and every state primary and caucus thus far.
 

MadRat

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
11,659
43
91
Hillary is an expert on crisis. She's been one big crisis the past 35 years at least.
 

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