Obama commutes sentences...

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
26,968
35,582
136
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es-record-breaking-214-commutations/88007750/

"The early release of the 214 prisoners, mostly low-level drug offenders, is part of Obama's effort to correct what he views as unreasonably long mandatory minimum sentences. Some date back decades, ..."


*applause*

With our idiotic war on drugs, I can't help but hand it to Obama for this. So what it's a huge number all at once?

What say you AT? Anyone want to hazard a guess on what this will also save taxpayers?
 
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master_shake_

Diamond Member
May 22, 2012
6,430
291
121
that's bs!

"small amount of drugs" is what is keeping the bad guys away from good god fearing people.

/s
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
68,847
26,626
136
Let me play devil's advocate here...







I got nothing. The war on drugs is that stupid and counterproductive.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I've thought for awhile that Obama will have a mass sentence commute (or commuting?) once the elections are done. I'm thinking he'll throw some kind of bone to Snowden too.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...es-record-breaking-214-commutations/88007750/

"The early release of the 214 prisoners, mostly low-level drug offenders, is part of Obama's effort to correct what he views as unreasonably long mandatory minimum sentences. Some date back decades, ..."


*applause*

With our idiotic war on drugs, I can't help but hand it to Obama for this. So what it's a huge number all at once?

What say you AT? Anyone want to hazard a guess on what this will also save taxpayers?
A nice gesture.

Be a great day when people like this never make it to prison.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
Hopefully these low level drug offenders aren't serious criminals who had their sentences reduced to a low level drug offense.
 

Subyman

Moderator <br> VC&G Forum
Mar 18, 2005
7,876
32
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Giving these people back their lives is great, but just think also about the savings from just these 200. That's around $7 million per year... And that doesn't include the loss of productivity that these people would provide to the economy. Housing so many people for idiotic drug crimes is one of the biggest stains on America IMO
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
I support lower sentences for non violent drug offenders, particularly possession, but then i read this:

Some date back decades, including 71-year-old Richard L. Reser of Sedgwick, Kan., who was given a 40-year sentence for dealing methamphatamine and firearm possession in 1989. He'll be released Dec. 1.
How many lived did this person destroy as a dealer? Marijuana is kind of a joke but meth is not. Firearm possession as well. These are the types of people we do want off the streets. I am sure there is a very human story behind Richard's path, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for dealers. I say pardon all the users and victims but if you are a dealer, the law needs to remain strong.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,494
15,729
136
I support lower sentences for non violent drug offenders, particularly possession, but then i read this:


How many lived did this person destroy as a dealer? Marijuana is kind of a joke but meth is not. Firearm possession as well. These are the types of people we do want off the streets. I am sure there is a very human story behind Richard's path, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for dealers. I say pardon all the users and victims but if you are a dealer, the law needs to remain strong.

He may be one of those guys who is a completely different person today. I don't know but I'd guess there is something exceptional about this guy.
 

dainthomas

Lifer
Dec 7, 2004
14,572
3,401
136
I support lower sentences for non violent drug offenders, particularly possession, but then i read this:


How many lived did this person destroy as a dealer? Marijuana is kind of a joke but meth is not. Firearm possession as well. These are the types of people we do want off the streets. I am sure there is a very human story behind Richard's path, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for dealers. I say pardon all the users and victims but if you are a dealer, the law needs to remain strong.

40 years though? You could actually kill someone (or more than one) and get less.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
40 years though? You could actually kill someone (or more than one) and get less.
Becomes a question of how you define justice. To me selling meth is comparable to murder. How many people did this guy get hooked on meth? What happened to them? What was the impact to their families?

I get that for some drugs, the war on drugs is a bit ridiculous. But there are other drugs, and i would consider meth one of them, that have a far more extensive and corrupting impact on society. Look at what crack did to inner cities in the 90s. Look at what heroin is now doing yet again in many blue collar suburbs.
 

Cozarkian

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,352
95
91
I support lower sentences for non violent drug offenders, particularly possession, but then i read this:


How many lived did this person destroy as a dealer? Marijuana is kind of a joke but meth is not. Firearm possession as well. These are the types of people we do want off the streets. I am sure there is a very human story behind Richard's path, but I don't haven't a lot of sympathy for dealers. I say pardon all the users and victims but if you are a dealer, the law needs to remain strong.

So we drop a virtually unemployable (old felon) into the economy with no social security accrual for at least 26 years to fund his retirement and most likely no place to live.

It seems irresponsible to release people like that without doing more to help them find a way to survive without reverting to crime.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,494
15,729
136
So we drop a virtually unemployable (old felon) into the economy with no social security accrual for at least 26 years to fund his retirement and most likely no place to live.

It seems irresponsible to release people like that without doing more to help them find a way to survive without reverting to crime.

Agreed in many ways but what's the answer.
Imagine having a new hire at work whose never used a computer or even email in a work setting.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
are you advocating that we simply execute people for low level drug offenses?

I could had worded that better. What I meant to say was it will be a great day when people like this never have to go to prison for drugs.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
45,884
32,668
136
Becomes a question of how you define justice. To me selling meth is comparable to murder. How many people did this guy get hooked on meth? What happened to them? What was the impact to their families?

I get that for some drugs, the war on drugs is a bit ridiculous. But there are other drugs, and i would consider meth one of them, that have a far more extensive and corrupting impact on society. Look at what crack did to inner cities in the 90s. Look at what heroin is now doing yet again in many blue collar suburbs.

Because treating the drug problem as a crime issue instead of a public health/social issue has really landed us where we want to be...

You know how heroin got to be so big in the suburbs? Pharmaceutical companies pushed doctors to prescribe addictive pain pills for anything and everything to people. Consequently they also became a drug go choice for those people's kids due to sheer availability. Once the government started clamping down on the supply people turned to the next best thing: heroin.

Even a cursory look at our drug policy reveals the unmitigated disaster that's cost us billions of dollars and untold lives on the false premise that we can punish our way out of this.
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,494
15,729
136
Because treating the drug problem as a crime issue instead of a public health/social issue has really landed us where we want to be...

You know how heroin got to be so big in the suburbs? Pharmaceutical companies pushed doctors to prescribe addictive pain pills for anything and everything to people. Consequently they also became a drug go choice for those people's kids due to sheer availability. Once the government started clamping down on the supply people turned to the next best thing: heroin.

This I am amazed that drug companies haven't been held liable. I remember them making a return and the drug companies insisted the new formulas were non habit forming.
 

rudder

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
19,441
85
91
I agree on commuting the sentences for non violent drug offenses.... but some of the people getting pardons also were convicted of illegal firearms possession. I would also be hesitant to pardon someone who was sent to prison for trafficking large amounts of cocaine, heroin, or meth. But I don't know all the details of all the people being pardoned.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,095
513
126
I agree on commuting the sentences for non violent drug offenses.... but some of the people getting pardons also were convicted of illegal firearms possession. I would also be hesitant to pardon someone who was sent to prison for trafficking large amounts of cocaine, heroin, or meth. But I don't know all the details of all the people being pardoned.

You would have to evaluate case by case. Illegal weapons possession can result from the drug conviction.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,188
14,090
136
Becomes a question of how you define justice. To me selling meth is comparable to murder. How many people did this guy get hooked on meth? What happened to them? What was the impact to their families?

I get that for some drugs, the war on drugs is a bit ridiculous. But there are other drugs, and i would consider meth one of them, that have a far more extensive and corrupting impact on society. Look at what crack did to inner cities in the 90s. Look at what heroin is now doing yet again in many blue collar suburbs.

No, selling dangerous drugs is not tantamount to "murder." Murder is a wholly non-consensual act of taking someone's life. If one is selling a dangerous drug, the buyer has some choice in the matter. Drug dealers don't "get people hooked." People choose to use it themselves. No one is addicted until they have at least used by choice for awhile, and even once addicted, it isn't impossible to stop.

Meth is perhaps nasty enough that I would agree the seller is morally culpable to a degree, but not to the level of murder, unless he was selling to kids. Yeah, 40 years is excessive, even in the case of meth. Your logic would extend to sellers of cigarettes as well. Oh, meth is more dangerous than cigarettes? Perhaps, but not more dangerous to the tune of 40 years+ versus no time at all.
 
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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,001
126
I support lower sentences for non violent drug offenders, particularly possession, but then i read this:


How many lived did this person destroy as a dealer? Marijuana is kind of a joke but meth is not. Firearm possession as well. These are the types of people we do want off the streets. I am sure there is a very human story behind Richard's path, but I don't have a lot of sympathy for dealers. I say pardon all the users and victims but if you are a dealer, the law needs to remain strong.


There is a demand, the dealer did not create the market for meth. Many people take meth (and other amphetamine mixtures) every day without issue, ever see what is in Adderall? Street drugs full of unknown chemicals that destroy the body and of unknown strength cause problems, pharma-quality drugs are much less likely to do so. Does the cashier at Taco Bell feel bad for selling you 1200 calories of fats and chemicals?
 

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,785
6,032
136
This I am amazed that drug companies haven't been held liable. I remember them making a return and the drug companies insisted the new formulas were non habit forming.

It's primarily a US problem, we have less than 10% of the world's population yet we consume over 70% of the prescription drugs produced.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,511
29,091
146
I've thought for awhile that Obama will have a mass sentence commute (or commuting?) once the elections are done. I'm thinking he'll throw some kind of bone to Snowden too.

He can't. As much as I thoroughly dislike Obama's treatment of whistleblowers and leakers (Seems like an Obama mandate), the Snowden case is different, and Obama's actions here are tied to his office, not to the man (not that I have any reason to think that Obama would act differently if that were not the case).

Too often critics rag on presidential decisions based on the individual, when they are simply bound by US policy as determined by international treaty, constitutional duty, and historical precedent.

It seems to me that Obama can and very much should be more lenient and supportive of whistleblowers in general, but Snowden's actions were technically treasonous, whether or no you agree with his actions and believe that history will judge his actions as positive for this country (I do).

President Bush or Clinton or Clinton or McCain would have had no choice but to treat Snowden the same as Obama.

A fantasy Trump-ollini president? well....whotheeff knows? He would be just as likely to execute the guy on prime time as he would be to offer him a half-year's discount rate on Mar a Lago timeshares. The guy doesn't care about the country or its laws, so you never could know.