Obama at odds with Petraeus over identifying enemy as "Islamic"

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Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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This is hilarious. Despite the Qu'ran being essentially a warfare manual Obama does not want policymakers to even mention the word Islamic when mentioning terrorists! What ever happened to the axiom of know the enemy? Patton read Rommel's book and most sane people read Mein Kampf for a glimpse into mind or a terrorist. Obama's approach essentially amounts to is an attempt to pretend that things are other than what they are which is doomed to fail.


http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...-odds-with-petraeus-doctrine-on-islam/?page=1

The Petraeus counterinsurgency manual takes the position that, to understand the enemy, commanders must recognize terrorist links to Islam -- its leaders in some cases, its fundraising and its infrastructure. Forces must fight "Islamic extremists," it says, differently from the Viet Cong or followers of Saddam Hussein.

"Islamic extremists use perceived threats to their religion by outsiders to mobilize support for their insurgency and justify terrorist tactics," the manual states.

In a section on the ideological source for Islamic terrorists, the doctrine says, "For many Muslims, the Caliphate produces a positive image of the golden age of Islamic civilization. This image mobilizes support for al Qaeda among some of the most traditional Muslims while concealing the details of the movement's goal. In fact, al Qaeda's leaders envision the 'restored Caliphate' as a totalitarian state similar to the pre-2002 Taliban regime in Afghanistan."

The manual also discusses support networks for "Islamic extremists:"

"A feature of today's operational environment deserving mention is the effort by Islamic extremists, including those that advocate violence, to spread their influence through the funding and use of entities that share their views or facilitate them to varying degrees. These entities may or may not be threats themselves; however, they can provide passive or active support to local or distant insurgencies."

Meanwhile idiots in lala land

"Once you attach a religious thing, you're basically saying somehow or other this is caused by the religion," Mr. Korb said. "Most Muslims are not that way."

Well fuckin duh... what else would someone send their children in to blow others up for?

Blind leading the weak.
 
Oct 27, 2007
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"Once you attach a religious thing, you're basically saying somehow or other this is caused by the religion,
Yes, that's what you're saying. Yes, it is correct.
. "Most Muslims are not that way."
Obviously also true. But the OP is right, burying your head in the sand and ignoring one of the core causes of terrorism is bone-headed and will lead to failure.
 

Munky

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Feb 5, 2005
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Someone miss the memo? Militant Muslims are no longer terrorists... that word now refers to any US citizen who opposes the government.
 

IGBT

Lifer
Jul 16, 2001
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the obozo refuses to identify the enemy or establish a reason why he's there.
 

Throckmorton

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Aug 23, 2007
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I don't see what the issue is. Everybody knows the reality of Islam, that it's reverted to a point where the rightwing extremists are violent because they take the Korean literally.

Not belaboring that point in public documents is a good thing.

Ever notice how Christians on this forum react when you point out the killing and terrorism Christianity has caused?
They'll argue, deny, disown, and end up feeling animosity toward the person who said it. They'll swear up and down that for example the abortion doctor killer isn't a "true Christian" and then accuse you of persecuting Christians. What reason would you have to believe Muslims react differently when you point out the terrorism that Islam has caused?

Nobody changed the COIN manual.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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I don't see what the issue is. Everybody knows the reality of Islam, that it's reverted to a point where the rightwing extremists are violent because they take the Korean literally.

Not belaboring that point in public documents is a good thing.

Ever notice how Christians on this forum react when you point out the killing and terrorism Christianity has caused?
They'll argue, deny, disown, and end up feeling animosity toward the person who said it. They'll swear up and down that for example the abortion doctor killer isn't a "true Christian" and then accuse you of persecuting Christians. What reason would you have to believe Muslims react differently when you point out the terrorism that Islam has caused?

Nobody changed the COIN manual.
LOL typical puss can't recognize a threat in front of his face and would probably die via pissing his pants as sword is lowered on nonsensical infidel head. ( I got videos I love stupid liberals that get heads sawed off on film and screaming like bitches).. None of these kinds of objections gets to the heart of the matter today in the here and now: Terrorists on a global scale today are using the Quran, not the Bible or the Bhagavad Gita or the Book of Mormon, to justify violence and to convince others that they should act violently - what are you going to do about it?
 
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Moonbeam

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Bismillahir-Rahmanir-Rahim, in the name of God, Most Merciful, Most Compassionate. May all praise and praisings be to Allah alone. May we give all responsibility to God, the One of limitless grace and incomparable love, the One who gives us of His undiminishing wealth of grace. As-salamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu, may the peace, the beneficence, and the blessings of God be upon you.

For all three worlds, the world of awwal, the time of creation, dunya, the world in which we live, and akhirah, the hereafter, God has given us the most precious treasure. He created what is known as Adam (A.S.), then He made the world, and He gave explanations of the hereafter. We, the children of Adam (A.S.), must realize this.

We were all born as one family. Whether we live in the east, west, north, or south, the human generation is one race. And what is called God or Allah is one. The one God sent down His teachings to all the prophets. Out of all the prophets that came, twenty-five were specially selected, and out of these, eight were the chosen ones, having the greatest clarity: Adam, Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Moses, David, Jesus, and Muhammad, may the peace of God be upon them all. Through these eight prophets God proved His secret to the people. Finally, all the teachings and commandments that were sent down from the beginning to the time of Muhammad, the Rasul (Sal.), were gathered together in what is called the Qur’an.

We must look at the Qur’an in two different ways. There are the opposites of khair and sharr or good and evil, dhat and sifat God’s grace or essence and the manifested creation, and halal and haram or permissible and impermissible. One section exists as the laws and justice of God, and the other exists as the section of darkness.

In this state, we who are the children of Adam (A.S.) must realize that we must discard all that is evil and accept and act upon only what is good. That is the law of righteousness. We must simply discard what is evil; we need not denounce or attack anything.

What is called Islam was brought as perfect purity by the Qur’an. It is brotherly unity. Islam is to bring together as one family all the children of the one mother who have divided into four separate sections. The Qur’an teaches us to see what is good as good, while discarding what is evil. It is the law of justice. It shows us patience, inner patience, contentment, surrendering all to the will of God, and giving all praise to God. We, the children of Adam (A.S.), must understand this.

The Qur’an and its explanations are very deep in meaning. Therefore, we who are the children of Adam (A.S.) should not hold up the Qur’an as a banner for the slightest reason. We should not quote from the Qur’an and use it for waging wars, for our fights and quarrels, for our anger toward others, or to gain things of this world. The world is sharr, evil, and has to be discarded. The opposite, khair, which is goodness, must be accepted and put into action. The Qur’an should only be used for what is good. It shows brotherhood and unity, not divisiveness and discrimination. It soothes those who are weeping in sorrow. It gives solace to those who are suffering and makes them smile. It comforts those who are ill and protects them. It explains the wealth of God to those who are poor. It gives peace to those who are mentally ill. It gives wisdom to those without wisdom. It creates faith in those without faith and makes them bow in reverence to God. What is called the Qur’an is, in reality, something that has great value and very deep meaning.

The true meaning of Islam and the Qur’an is quite different from what people accept today, in the midst of so much fighting and strife. People quote Islam and wave the Qur’an as a banner for their wars. This is not correct. The Qur’an discards what is evil and shows only goodness, unity, and tolerance. Tawakkul-‘alalläh, giving all responsibility to God, and giving all praise to God, saying, “Al-hamdu lilläh,” with every breath is the Qur’an and Islam.

No matter how large the ocean is, it cannot quench our thirst, can it? The ocean cannot quench the thirst of any life. But if there is a pond, however small it may be, it can comfort many lives, appeasing thirst and dispelling fatigue. Like that, the Qur’an comforts so many lives, dispelling fatigue and hunger and clearing away the dirt. This is the meaning of the Qur’an and Islam. When you quote from the Qur’an, those words must only demonstrate peace and equality. When you say “Islam,” you must show patience, equality, and peace. When you show what is good, that goodness points to Islam, but when you show what is evil, that evil is something that has been discarded from the Qur’an .

The treasures, kingdoms, and titles of this world are all sharr and have been discarded from the Qur’an. Fighting and waging war for these worldly things, seeking vengeance, committing treacherous acts, telling lies for worldly gain, eating haräm or impermissible foods, lying out of jealousy for the sake of titles and positions—all these cannot be called Islam. And you cannot quote the Qur’an, saying that these actions appear there, because these actions are totally contrary to the Qur’an.

The Qur’an shows the brotherhood where we live as one family and eat off the same plate in unity. The Qur’an shows the brotherhood where we live in harmony, the way it is in the church or the mosque, where the beggar and the king are equal. It shows the brotherhood where we embrace each other, whether in the place of prayer or in the home. If two people have a fight, the next time they meet, they will look each other in the face and embrace and beg forgiveness from each other. The Qur’an and Islam tell us to ask forgiveness from God for our own faults, to dispel our anger, and to embrace each other in the next moment.

These are the explanations of the laws of the Qur’an from the beginning of creation to the hereafter. Lying, vengeance, treachery, jealousy, and murder should never be done in the name of Islam. Islam is brotherly unity, tolerance, and peacefulness. It is to purify each heart with the water of the Kalimah which the Rasul (Sal.) brought, washing away the darkness and creating peace.

But there are some people who hold up the Qur’an with anger, jealousy, and selfishness, using the Qur’an and Islam for their own self-gain and pride. The Qur’an should never be mentioned with these qualities, but should be mentioned only where there is righteousness. Anger, treachery, deceit, discrimination, divisiveness, and all that is impermissible have been thrown out of the Qur’an. All these sections belonging to the world have been eliminated from the Qur’an, and they must be eliminated from man, too. Man must take what is khair and eliminate what is sharr. In this way, the Qur’an must be used to show what is good and to eliminate what is evil, and this is Islam. Just bringing to the lips the words Qur’an and Islam for the slightest reason is not correct. The word Islam means unity, brotherhood, and harmony. It does not see differences among people; it only sees peace and harmony among all lives. This is Islam. This is the Qur’an. Every one of the children of Adam (A.S.) must realize this.

The words of the Qur’an are the divine words of Allah. If we take even one atom from the Qur’an, we will find countless meanings, beyond our understanding. If we split that one atom with our wisdom and then divide it into ten million pieces and take one of those pieces and examine it, we will find ninety-nine, ninety-nine particles revolving round and round without one touching another. These are His wilayats, His powers, revolving around each other inside that tiny particle. If we take one of those particles and divide it into five million pieces and then take one of those particles and examine it, there too we will find ninety-nine, ninety-nine particles revolving one around the other without touching one another. If we take that particle and divide it into two and a half million pieces and then take one particle and examine it, we will find ninety-nine particles revolving around each other without touching. If we take one of those pieces and cut it into a million particles and take one of those and examine it, we will find ninety-nine, ninety-nine particles revolving one around the other without touching. If we take one of those particles and divide it into five hundred thousand pieces, each of those particles will show ninety-nine, ninety-nine revolving one around the other. If we take one of those particles and cut it into one thousand pieces, again we will see ninety-nine, ninety-nine particles revolving round and round without one touching the other. If we take a particle from that and cut it into one hundred pieces and examine it from the station of wisdom within wisdom, again we will see ninety-nine, ninety-nine particles revolving one around the other without touching. As we keep examining these, we find it going deeper and deeper within, while the power is becoming greater and greater.

These ninety-nine are the Asma'ul-Husna, the divine names of Allah. God has three thousand divine attributes and ninety-nine wilayats or powers. Everything is in the form of atoms, and every particle contains the qudrat, the power of Allah. Everything moves through His power. We who are Islam must realize this. This is the Qur’an. This is His wilayats.

One who calls himself Islam will never harm anyone, take revenge, or be treacherous toward anyone. We must realize this. Islam must realize this. The name “Islam” has very deep meaning and is of inestimable value, and it should never be held up for falsehood, robbery, or murder. Islam is brotherly unity that can appease the thirst of the entire world. This is the Islam which was brought by Prophet Muhammad (Sal.). All of everything, all the universes, and all of creation is contained within the Qur’an. But failing to understand this, we hold up and quote the Qur’an and Islam for the slightest reasons.

We who are in the world must realize that the Qur’an is the divine law of righteousness, which was given to show brotherly unity, to make lives peaceful, to forgive in the presence of faults, to teach patience and compassion and to comfort all lives. We must have sabur, shakur, tawakkul, and al-hamdu lillah. This is the Qur’an and Islam. All my brothers and sisters who have iman, perfect faith in God, must realize this. Amin. Amin.


M. R. Bawa Muhaiyaddeen
 

Zebo

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I never pictured you as stupid moonie. Guess I was wrong. Suck up bitch I'm a rebel.

Freedom is my creed and anything that offers total explanation of the universe and regulation of life, not to mention punitive death for non compliance has no quarter w/ me.
 
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Zebo

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We have a fundi aboard who is engaging in "taquia" which is straight faced lying as is permissible in Islam to deceive you infidels to true intentions.

Lets look at the facts shall we? Nevermind over 18,000 terror attacks since 911 and Islams borders and innards being bloody wherever you look.. disregard that - we are after motive here and for that I present the bloody filthy murderous Qu'ran. Feel free to read it in it's entirety here: http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/


Some select religion of peace passages:

009.005
YUSUFALI: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
SHAKIR: So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

008.039
YUSUFALI: And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do.
PICKTHAL: And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is all for Allah. But if they cease, then lo! Allah is Seer of what they do.
SHAKIR: And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah; but if they desist, then surely Allah sees what they do.

008.067
YUSUFALI: It is not fitting for a prophet that he should have prisoners of war until he hath thoroughly subdued the land. Ye look for the temporal goods of this world; but Allah looketh to the Hereafter: And Allah is Exalted in might, Wise.
PICKTHAL: It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
SHAKIR: It is not fit for a prophet that he should take captives unless he has fought and triumphed in the land; you desire the frail goods of this world, while Allah desires (for you) the hereafter; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

009.029
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

This one is one of my favs because it's a corollary of what's featured on ACOGs which everyone made a big stink about bible 8:12 essentially a message of peace but Islam has an 8:12 as well, which is much better suited for a combat optic LOL

008.012
YUSUFALI: Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord inspired the angels, (saying): I am with you. So make those who believe stand firm. I will throw fear into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Then smite the necks and smite of them each finger.
SHAKIR: When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them
 
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Borealis7

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Oct 19, 2006
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The Quran also says, in one form or another, that you should not harm the "descendants of Abraham" yet...they still do...
 

kylebisme

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Mar 25, 2000
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We have a fundi aboard who is engaging in "taquia" which is straight faced lying as is permissible in Islam to deceive you infidels to true intentions.
I'm not even a Muslim, you delusional bigot.

As for what you quoted out of context, one could do the same with the Bible to bash its teaching too. However, I will at least give you credit for citing legitimate translations this time.
 
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Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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I'm not even a Muslim, you delusional bigot.

As for what you quoted out of context, one could do the same with the Bible to bash it's teaching too. However, I will at least give you credit for citing legitimate translations this time.

Keep pretending bro. You act like we are stupid. Muslim or useful idiot - I have no use for either.
 

kylebisme

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Mar 25, 2000
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I'm not pretending, and you are one of the most ignorant bigots I've ever come across. To drive the point home, here is a picture of me with some of undeniably un-Islamic house decorations, and a bottle of my favorite whisky:

sonotmuslim.jpg


I'm just not some dumb hick like you, and rather I studied Islam through a comparative religion class in college. Furthermore, I'd call out your ingorant bigotry regardless of what relgion you were bashing.
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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I'm not pretending, and you are one of the most ignorant bigots I've ever come across. To drive the point home, here is a picture of me with some of undeniably un-Islamic house decorations, and a bottle of my favorite whisky:

sonotmuslim.jpg


I'm just not some dumb hick like you, and rather I studied Islam through a comparative religion class in college. Furthermore, I'd call out your ingorant bigotry regardless of what relgion you were bashing.

Yeah I could break your neck in about 2 secs Point?
 

Zebo

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Jul 29, 2001
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Zebo, I have a simple yes/no question for you. Do you hate Muslims in general?

No. I hate Islam. To the degree Muslims remove themselves from it they curry favor with me as any human being would removing themselves for a homicidal fatalistic sect.
 

mrjminer

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Dec 2, 2005
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I'm not pretending, and you are one of the most ignorant bigots I've ever come across. To drive the point home, here is a picture of me with some of undeniably un-Islamic house decorations, and a bottle of my favorite whisky:

snip

I'm just not some dumb hick like you, and rather I studied Islam through a comparative religion class in college. Furthermore, I'd call out your ingorant bigotry regardless of what relgion you were bashing.

To be fair, I wouldn't really classify him as ignorant, as he's provided the proof for his claims directly from their religious book.

Anyways... I'm not really sure what the problem is with classifying them as "Islamic terrorists" or "Islamic fundamentalists" or whatever. It's no different than, for example, using a country name to identify someone. Surely, not all Muslims are terrorists... just like not all Germans were Nazis.

I'd rather give troops specific information about a large subset of the enemy rather than masking it so Obama can go home and face east at noon
 
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kylebisme

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Mar 25, 2000
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Yeah I could break your neck in about 2 secs Point?
I suggest you post a picture of yourself, and then we can run a poll in off topic to see what the forum consensus is on who could take who. Are you even man enough for that?
 

Red Dawn

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Jun 4, 2001
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I suggest you post a picture of yourself, and then we can run a poll in off topic to see what the forum consensus is on who could take who. Are you even man enough for that?
Uh yeah, if this turns into a pissing match between who has a bigger E-peen I will lock this thread up and hand out some vacations.:twisted:
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
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I suggest you post a picture of yourself, and then we can run a poll in off topic to see what the forum consensus is on who could take who. Are you even man enough for that?

My pics been up plenty of times boy,
 
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