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Obama Admin. May Have Violated Posse Comitatus Act

Sacrilege

Senior member
Sep 6, 2007
647
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0
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Did-Military-Use-Spy-Planes-to-Illegally-Track-Times-Square-Terrorist-3527/

what if the military used high-flying, communications-sensing spy planes to track the phone? If so, it could violate the Posse Comitatus Act, which since 1878 has made it illegal for the U.S. military to join in a domestic law enforcement operation.
Some reports say that the military's RC-12 spy plane was used to follow Shahzad in the hours before his arrest; the White House denies the aircraft was deployed. Here's the debate about what happened and what it could mean.
Most Americans do not think this is a big deal. The ends justify the means when dealing with terrorists.

It could even be argued that terrorists, militias, Japanese Americans, etc. give up their constitutional rights when engaging in war against America. Perhaps their constitutional rights can be declared null and void if they are declared enemies of the state, no physical actions required. The Hutaree Militia Thought Crime case comes to mind.

I guess from now on, one just has to hope their religious/ethnic/political/etc. group doesn't fall out of favor with the US government.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
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The classic means of getting around this is for the military to 'lend' the stuff to another organization.

If there's one thing that would make me a raving tea-bagger it's an honest-to-God violation of Posse Comitatus;

The president has no place using his power over the military to control the population; the ends never justify the means if the means are the establishment of a military dictator.
 

Lemon law

Lifer
Nov 6, 2005
20,984
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IMHO there are two possible holes in the link.

1. There is no direct evidence Posse Comitatus was violated by such a military spyplane.
Hence even the link author used the word if.

2. Since this was a case of domestic terrorism, there are almost certain to be posse comititatus exceptions in the more recent homeland security act.
 

irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
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IMHO there are two possible holes in the link.

1. There is no direct evidence Posse Comitatus was violated by such a military spyplane.
Hence even the link author used the word if.

2. Since this was a case of domestic terrorism, there are almost certain to be posse comititatus exceptions in the more recent homeland security act.
For once I'm actually agreeing with LL. More likely (and simpler) is that they tracked/tapped his cell via the carrier.

Oh and you want posse comitatus violations? Remember the Cold War? lol
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
181
106
The classic means of getting around this is for the military to 'lend' the stuff to another organization.

If there's one thing that would make me a raving tea-bagger it's an honest-to-God violation of Posse Comitatus;

The president has no place using his power over the military to control the population; the ends never justify the means if the means are the establishment of a military dictator.
Ten years too late on one hand, thirty years too late on the other to cry about this.
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
7,628
181
106
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/opinions/view/opinion/Did-Military-Use-Spy-Planes-to-Illegally-Track-Times-Square-Terrorist-3527/





Most Americans do not think this is a big deal. The ends justify the means when dealing with terrorists.

It could even be argued that terrorists, militias, Japanese Americans, etc. give up their constitutional rights when engaging in war against America. Perhaps their constitutional rights can be declared null and void if they are declared enemies of the state, no physical actions required. The Hutaree Militia Thought Crime case comes to mind.

I guess from now on, one just has to hope their religious/ethnic/political/etc. group doesn't fall out of favor with the US government.
Japanese Americans did not give up their constitutional rights that was the hysterical racist over-reaction of White America. A burden which White America has a lot to answer for.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,928
1,262
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The tea-baggers are already at the black helicopter conspiracy stage. Oklahoma City bombing II is probably not too far off in the future.

BTW Bridgeport, CT (where the bomber lived) is the largest city in CT (by far) and is essentially part of metro NYC. Tracking one individual by air in that locale would be like trying to keep track of one ant in an anthill. It's also a heck of a busy airspace, I can't imagine the aviation hazard secret drone flights would cause there.

But don't let reality interfer with the paranoid delusions.
 

TwinsenTacquito

Senior member
Apr 1, 2010
821
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Every protection US citizens think they have have been loopholed. None of them mean anything at all anymore. If they want you, they say you're a suspected terrorist and they can literally do anything they want to you. And it's been this way for 20 years. The only difference was that before they needed a liberal judge to rubber stamp their forms, today they don't even need a form, they just do it.
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
68,488
3,597
126
Is it thus Illegal to scramble the Air Force to intercept suspicious Civilian Passenger Aircraft?

I suspect not.
 

Thump553

Lifer
Jun 2, 2000
11,928
1,262
126
Every protection US citizens think they have have been loopholed. None of them mean anything at all anymore. If they want you, they say you're a suspected terrorist and they can literally do anything they want to you. And it's been this way for 20 years. The only difference was that before they needed a liberal judge to rubber stamp their forms, today they don't even need a form, they just do it.
If you ever have a chance to talk to a federal prosecutor or any federal agency law enforcement officer, ask them about their experience as to whether a "conserative" judge is less likely to approval a warrant than a liberal one. With the rise of so-called social conservative agenda-which is the true backbone of the GOP today-following the law and order mantra of the GOP in the seventies and eighties, a conservative who cares a hoot about individual liberties is a rare find indeed.
 

Sacrilege

Senior member
Sep 6, 2007
647
0
0
Miranda may need changing....

the Obama administration said on Sunday it wants to work with Congress on possible limitations of the constitutional rights afforded terrorism suspects — even for American citizens.
And just as I predicted:

bipartisan legislation introduced in both houses of Congress last week that would strip terrorism suspects of U.S. citizenship.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100509/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_times_square_miranda;_ylt=AsaJZ0eJ9LUaW5SbWiz2Ayis0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTNyYXY0MzNjBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTAwNTA5L3VzX3RpbWVzX3NxdWFyZV9taXJhbmRhBGNjb2RlA21vc3Rwb3B1bGFyBGNwb3MDNgRwb3MDMwRwdANob21lX2Nva2UEc2VjA3luX2hlYWRsaW5lX2xpc3QEc2xrA2hvbGRlcm1pcmFuZA--

Sen. Joe Lieberman, I-Conn., defended the citizenship legislation, saying terrorist organizations were showing a pattern of using American citizens.
To recap:

-The administration wants to curtail the bill of rights for American citizens who are terrorism suspects.
-A bipartisan group in Congress wants to strip American citizen terrorism suspects of their citizenship, and therefore all constitutional rights.
-The Posse Comitatus Act is skirted by technicalities consistently and no one really cares anymore.

In the near future the Obama administration could have the powers to declare the Tea Party a domestic terrorist group, instantaneously strip all those American citizens of all of their rights, and utilize the military to round them up and detain them indefinitely as foreign combatants.
 
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