Oakland: Jogger throws homeless mans stuff into lake.

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1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
I bet all the people who became homeless because they couldn’t afford housing just forgot to move in with their relatives.

You’re pulling a Paul Ryan right now. Every year he has countless photo ops of him personally helping to feed a handful of people while simultaneously endorsing policies that take food away from far more. It's admirable that both Paul and yourself help to mitigate some of the human suffering your preferred policies inflict on others. It doesn't change the fact that you endorse policies that cause mass human suffering though.

That's why we should build homes for homeless and refugees in the most affluent rich white neighborhoods so the rich puppet masters of our politicians can witness first hand the results of the policies they paid off, oops I mean lobbied their favorite politician for,

conservatives will most likely fight it but I'm sure the rich white liberals will be all for it.

In a wealthy SF neighborhood, residents fight low-income housing
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...-SF-neighborhood-residents-fight-10617213.php

When a nonprofit developer applied to build 150 apartments for low-income seniors in the affluent Forest Hill neighborhood of San Francisco west of Twin Peaks, city housing officials were thrilled. Here at last was an affordable project proposed not for the usual precincts of the Tenderloin or SoMa, but for a quiet corner of the city that rarely sees development of any kind.

“Equity in terms of where we are creating affordable housing is a big issue for the mayor,” Jeff Buckley, senior adviser to Mayor Ed Lee on housing issues, said when the developer pitched the idea in October.

But just a month later, the project is in deep trouble — for reasons that go a long way toward explaining why most of the city’s housing for poor people is in neighborhoods where there are already plenty of poor people.

For many of those who live in the detached, single-family homes in Forest Hill, the five-story, 132,000-square-foot project proposed for Laguna Honda Boulevard is too tall and too dense. They warn that it will increase traffic, noise and crime.

On Monday night, more than 100 residents squeezed into the Forest Hill Clubhouse — a 1919 Arts and Crafts building designed by Bernard Maybeck and owned and maintained by homeowners. The occasion was a neighborhood association meeting devoted to the proposed project. The group, which typically deals with such things as pruning schedules for the elm trees along Magellan Avenue, unanimously voted against the housing development.

460x1240.jpg

Photo: Paul Chinn, The Chronicle

The Forest Hill Christian Church is seen on Laguna Honda Boulevard in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, Nov. 15, 2016. Residents are unhappy with a proposed plan to build 150 units of affordable senior housing on the site.
Joe Bravo, an attorney who is leading the charge against the project, said the opposition “is not a question of being a NIMBY. It’s a question of saving the hill” the pine-tree-dotted knob that gives the Forest Hill neighborhood its name.

“You can’t build 132,000 square feet and make it look like the Arc de Triomphe,” Bravo said. “This is a huge development for the area. It would be perfect for somewhere along the Van Ness corridor next to a Holiday Inn.”

The project, proposed by the Christian Church Homes of Northern California, would put housing on a long, narrow parcel at 250 Laguna Honda Blvd., at the foot of the eastern side of Forest Hill. The site is now home to the Forest Hill Christian Church, a portable classroom that the church uses as a preschool, and a parking lot.

Some residents took pains to say it was the height and density of the building that they opposed, not the fact that it would house low-income seniors, 20 to 30 percent of whom would be formerly homeless. But others openly said residents of the complex would bring with them the sort of quality-of-life problems that neighborhoods west of Twin Peaks are largely immune from.

One resident said at Monday night’s meeting, “We don’t know if there are going to be sex offenders living there.” Another asked Christian Church Homes representatives, “What resources are you going to provide to make sure my 11-year-old girl is safe?”

Jamie Wong, a Sunset District native who has lived in Forest Hill for nearly a decade, said she is worried about the development destabilizing the hillside and changing the feel of the area.

“As a parent, I am concerned about people with mental illness and drug addictions,” she said. “I want my kids to be able to play outside — that’s why we bought a house here.”

The controversy underscores how antidevelopment sentiment tends to squeeze low-income projects into a limited number of dense neighborhoods. Paradoxically, it’s more expensive to build in those poorer downtown districts than in places like Forest Hill, where height limits and more expansive parcels mean projects can use cheaper, wood-frame construction. Sites near downtown tend to be small and pencil out economically only if the structures are tall, which requires costly concrete or steel-frame construction.

Kathleen Mertz, vice president of development for Christian Church Homes, said in an interview that the initial rendering for the Forest Hill project isn’t necessarily representative of what would be built. Plans could change, she said.

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Photo: Scott Strazzante, The Chronicle

Joe Bravo, who has lived in Forest Hill for 21 years, gives a presentation, against the proposed 150 unit Christian Church Homes development, during Forest Hill Board of Directors meeting in San Francisco, Calif., on Monday, November 14, 2016.
“I’m there to listen,” Mertz said before the meeting. “Everyone needs to participate together to help be part of the solutions of the affordability crisis in San Francisco. I would argue that being able to live and thrive and age in place in San Francisco is part of making a holistic and inclusive community. That means having housing for people at all income levels, all family types and all life stages.”

Mark Watts, president of the Forest Hill Association Board of Directors, said he supports affordable housing on the site, but that the initial proposal “looks like a Russian gulag.”

Watts added, “People are afraid of formerly homeless people wandering around the neighborhood attacking our kids and pushing our elderly down. That is not something I am worried about, but that is what people are afraid of.”
Tim Colen of the advocacy group Housing Action Coalition lives in Forest Hill and is trying to ease his neighbors’ concerns. He’s hoping to organize a tour of other developments in the city that house low-income seniors.

“People owe it to themselves to go and look at what low-income senior housing is all about, how it’s run and managed,” Colen said. “They are missing an opportunity to extend a welcome to a group of people not currently represented in the neighborhood.”

The project will ultimately need Board of Supervisors approval, which will be less likely if Supervisor Norman Yee, who represents the neighborhood, doesn’t change his mind. Given the lack of community support, he said, “I am unable to support ... this project in its current form.”

It’s been so long since affordable housing was constructed west of Twin Peaks that “it’s something new and unfamiliar” to many residents, said Kate Hartley, deputy director of the mayor’s office of housing and community.

“The fears that some people have expressed will not be realized,” she said. “We want everyone to understand that affordable housing in San Francisco is very high quality and very well done.”





 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
No idea why someone would target a homeless person this way. (Was he living on someone's doorstep and all reasonable requests to relocate exhausted?)

But then again.. Oakland. Strikes me as a place practically devoid of civilization or civility.

One reason I can think of, is that the person sees the homeless person as someone that is unwilling to help himself and gets in the way of others. That is a very common view I have seen living in the Bay Area of CA.

Also keep in mind there are a massive amount of homeless in the Bay Area. Its actually a major political issue right now in SF.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
I'm not deflecting and to answer your question see post 45.
Had I known you were this passionate about the homeless I would have had t-shirts made up.

That is not an answer to my question. How was my definition wrong? The chronic people would be part of unwilling and or unable.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,425
6,086
126
Supply and demand applies to housing. If you build more of it, the costs come down. The staggering cost of housing is people in your area reaping the consequences of decades and decades of underbuilding. I'd be interested to know what you mean by a 'very fast pace' though: how many units per year would you say are being built and what's the approximate population of your town?



Again, you're arguing that supply and demand don't apply where you live. They do. What you're likely noticing is that the small and wholly inadequate amount of new housing that's being built isn't bringing down prices but that's to be expected. It's nowhere near adequate and is probably just slightly mitigating future price increases.

As far as mass transit goes yes, you should build better transit! Here's the thing though, mass transit REQUIRES density to be effective. That's what was nice about SB827, it was trying to tie the two together so they could be built out simultaneously. Anyways, I agree that increased density leads to increased traffic and that's a problem. The good news is that we have very good, tried and tested solutions for that.



Yes, lack of affordable housing is only one aspect of homelessness, I agree. As I said earlier in this thread I also agree that we will always need government supplied/subsidized housing because market rates will never work for everyone. The good news is that increasing density gives you more tax money to pay for exactly that. Everyone wins.



I agree we also need to solve income inequality but that doesn't mean we can't build more housing until we do.



What building denser housing is... is an effective solution to the problem. Refusal to build more housing in California is causing massive, real suffering to huge numbers of people and they need your help. Speaking of which, good news just came in that a pro-development candidate won the SF mayor's election. Hopefully that's a start.
The housing crisis is the result of not letting the homeless make shelter any where they want. All over the world there are massive and economically vibrant slums crammed full of industrial people. You are responsible for wanting the homes of old people to house them in. Let them live where they want. Stop demolishing homeless settlements in city parks and streets, stop incarcerating them as indigent. They don’t want to live in the suburbs, they want to live down town. God damned selfish city people want them pushed out. What can be cheaper than building a home of cardboard. And unlike your high density high-rise, they won’t kill you in an earthquake.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126

What in the world does that have to do with what you called me out for? You seem to believe that I said something factually incorrect.

1. Homelessness used to be a death sentence for a majority of human history. That means that society has only really been dealing with homelessness relatively recently.

2. Society needs to not look away at this problem and deal with it as it is here to stay.

3. The definition of Homeless is someone unwilling and or unable to provide shelter for themselves.

So far you have said that nomads are a thing and thus 1 is false which is stupid. Nomads are self sustaining people that most definitely have a home.

The other thing you did was to say that my definition (3) was somehow narrowing down, and then you provided an drastically more narrow definition. I believe the implication about me narrowing down was to somehow imply I was trying to shift from my statement as you believed it was wrong.

So, explain.
 

Noah Abrams

Golden Member
Feb 15, 2018
1,041
109
76
Nobody moved in with me. I moved out. And I don't see the sacrifice of my home or the 2000 each month as feeding a handful of people. Make it over 3000 with the loss of rent.

Gosh, you are rich! :) And yet not quite like the rich elite liberal :)
 

hal2kilo

Lifer
Feb 24, 2009
23,425
10,320
136
One reason I can think of, is that the person sees the homeless person as someone that is unwilling to help himself and gets in the way of others. That is a very common view I have seen living in the Bay Area of CA.

Also keep in mind there are a massive amount of homeless in the Bay Area. Its actually a major political issue right now in SF.
Sucks not having cold harsh winters. Got the same problem in Seattle.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
27,274
36,388
136
That's when you jump in and say "You're right! It's a mess, but I got this, I'll pick all this up, don't miss out on your run man." Smile and shake his hand, send him on his way and wait until the homeless guy comes back. He's not a city worker or law enforcement, and that's public property. He gets pushy and belligerent he can cool off in the lake.

You're supposed to respect your elders, regardless of lack of property and income. Good on those folks for getting the guy on film doing it though, maybe what is heading his way will result in him changing his ways. You want to address homelessness? Great, but that's not how you do it.
 
Nov 25, 2013
32,083
11,718
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The housing crisis is the result of not letting the homeless make shelter any where they want. All over the world there are massive and economically vibrant slums crammed full of industrial people. You are responsible for wanting the homes of old people to house them in. Let them live where they want. Stop demolishing homeless settlements in city parks and streets, stop incarcerating them as indigent. They don’t want to live in the suburbs, they want to live down town. God damned selfish city people want them pushed out. What can be cheaper than building a home of cardboard. And unlike your high density high-rise, they won’t kill you in an earthquake.


This is apparently what you are proposing for the US

brazil-estrutural-slum.jpg


RTR38Y6Q-1024x682.jpg


A child jumps on the waste products that are used to make poultry feed as she plays in a tannery at Hazaribagh in Dhaka, Bangladesh, in 2012. Luxury leather goods sold across the world are produced in this slum area of Bangladesh’s capital where workers, including children, are exposed to hazardous chemicals and often injured in horrific accidents. Photo by Andrew
Biraj/Reuters

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/...nd-polluted-rivers-become-a-childs-playground

Makes so much more sense then building housing like this

a-78-unit-temporary-modular-housing-complex-will-open-next-month-at-west-59th-avenue-and-heather-str.jpg


http://www.vancourier.com/news/church-looks-to-welcome-homeless-to-marpole-housing-site-1.23151657

hd-mediaitemid47700-9524.jpg


https://infotel.ca/newsitem/modular-housing-for-the-homeless-still-on-track-in-kelowna/it50443
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,425
6,086
126
This is apparently what you are proposing for the US
It's what I propose people in the cities don't want in their neighborhoods so they push old people out of their homes instead. I don't have homeless people roaming my streets because they don't want to be here. If you want to solve the homeless problem nation wide have all the cities and states send their homeless to DC and put a wall around it.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,133
5,072
136
What in the world does that have to do with what you called me out for? You seem to believe that I said something factually incorrect.

1. Homelessness used to be a death sentence for a majority of human history. That means that society has only really been dealing with homelessness relatively recently.

2. Society needs to not look away at this problem and deal with it as it is here to stay.

3. The definition of Homeless is someone unwilling and or unable to provide shelter for themselves.

So far you have said that nomads are a thing and thus 1 is false which is stupid. Nomads are self sustaining people that most definitely have a home.

The other thing you did was to say that my definition (3) was somehow narrowing down, and then you provided an drastically more narrow definition. I believe the implication about me narrowing down was to somehow imply I was trying to shift from my statement as you believed it was wrong.

So, explain.

You are being dramatic.
Humans are pretty damn resilient. Homelessness has never been a death sentence.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
12,337
898
126
You are being dramatic.
Humans are pretty damn resilient. Homelessness has never been a death sentence.

Currently about 30 years less in terms of life expectancy currently. Currently its about 77 for the non-homeless. So, its about half. Are you telling me you believe in the past it was equal or better? Having your life cut in half is pretty dramatic to most people.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Saying it should be thrown in a dumpster rather than the lake shows some amount of concern for litter pollution of said lake rather than coveting the stuff being throwing away.

I think if he be like to die he had better do it and decrease the surplus population.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
That jogger has been arrested. Not for the throwing clothes but trying to take the guy's phone from him.
"Jogger Joe" was eventually identified as Henry William Sintay,
"The 30-year-old was jailed on on robbery charges and was being held on $100,000 bail at the Santa Rita Jail in Dublin."
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jogger...s-mans-belongings-in-lake-oakland-california/


Not hero "Jogger Joe", the inspiration of compassionate conservatives everywhere! Say it ain't so Joe!
 

brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,120
24,019
136
That's why we should build homes for homeless and refugees in the most affluent rich white neighborhoods so the rich puppet masters of our politicians can witness first hand the results of the policies they paid off, oops I mean lobbied their favorite politician for,

conservatives will most likely fight it but I'm sure the rich white liberals will be all for it.

In a wealthy SF neighborhood, residents fight low-income housing
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea...-SF-neighborhood-residents-fight-10617213.php

NIMBYism knows no political affiliation.