O.C. Rescue Team Told to Go Home

[gsaldivar]

Seems like there is plenty of airport room and fuel in Haiti these days to ferry in hundreds of reporters and news crews from around the world...

But not enough for our local search and rescue team:

http://www.ocregister.com/news/team-229610-mckeown-force.html

"An Orange County urban search-and-rescue team has been sent home after being marooned for four days at a reserve air force base waiting for a cargo plane to the devastated island of Haiti, authorities said...

"The federal task force, which had been stationed at March Air Reserve base in Riverside County, received word from the Federal Emergency Management Agency on Sunday night, informing members they would be sent home without fulfilling their mission, said Capt. Greg McKeown of the Orange County Fire Authority...

"The delay in dispatching the team was blamed on a logistical logjam that left the Caribbean nation's main airport flooded with planes that delivered rescuers, food and medicine but couldn't take off because there wasn't enough fuel to refuel them...

"Orange County's task force is made up of 80 people, including doctors, paramedics, structural engineers and specially trained rescuers. Stranded in Riverside, the Orange County task force members spent their time training at the base. Four search dogs assigned to the team were kept alert with constant preparation, said Battalion Chief Dave Phillips, a task force leader...

"According to official dispatches provided to the media by Task Force 5 and the Orange County Fire Authority, Task Force 5 kept busy Friday "restacking the equipment to fit inside the military aircraft. Meanwhile, the dog handlers took the dogs to a local training center to keep them ready by getting them some exercise..."

What ever happened to the "72-hour window of opportunity" to find people buried under the earthquake rubble...?

 

[ProfJohn]

Sad story, but can you imagine the logistical nightmare that is currently going on in Haiti??

As the old saying about warfare goes "Amateurs talk about tactics, but professionals study logistics."

 

[sandorski]

Ya, that is unfortunate. I think part of the issue is likely because it is now very unlikely to find many more survivors.

It is nice that so many Nations were willing to help, even Venezuela and Cuba sent/wanted to send help(for eg), but Logistically speaking the situation simply couldn't handle that much sudden inflow. Seems to me this is the perfect type of situation where the UN or some kind of International body would be best suited to coordinate and manage the most efficient response. This Body would have an updated list of Resources from willing Nations and have Pre-Planned Strategies for quick response. It alone would Request/Grant Resources/Clearance for any International Disaster Relief to a stricken area. As a counter-balance, the Stricken Nation(s) would be able to refuse Aid or Restrict Aid from the Organization.

Kinda like an International version of FEMA.

 

[Vette73]

Seems like there is plenty of airport room and fuel in Haiti these days to ferry in hundreds of reporters and news crews from around the world...

But not enough for our local search and rescue team:

Maybe if you did some looking yourself you would know that reporters and such flew into the dominican republic and drove to haita.

Even some aid is being told to fly to the DR as the airport is already ruinning at max in Haita.

 

[StageLeft]

Why couldn't they fly them into Florida and find a boat for them? I mean it, why have to fly into Haiti? Then transport them onshore from that boat via smaller ones, you don't even need a dock. wtf

 

[rudder]

They likely got stranded for 4 days because the log jam of aircraft going Haiti. The Haitian aviation authority could just not handle it. It is smoothed out now with the U.S. military handling air traffic now... and each plane is allowed 2 hours to land, unload, and get out of there.

 

[rudder]

Why couldn't they fly them into Florida and find a boat for them? I mean it, why have to fly into Haiti? Then transport them onshore from that boat via smaller ones, you don't even need a dock. wtf

That rescue team would have been ineffective without their supplies. Haiti is a good distance from Florida. Probably would have taken just as long to find a ship, get cargo transferred and make the trip, unload, etc.

 

[ichy]

And yet they're sending this crap:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/01/19/2796032.htm?section=justin

"The Proclaimer is self-powered and can play the Bible in the jungle, desert or ... even on the moon!"

Uh, the moon has no atmosphere. Good luck transmitting sound up there.

 

[StageLeft]

That rescue team would have been ineffective without their supplies. Haiti is a good distance from Florida. Probably would have taken just as long to find a ship, get cargo transferred and make the trip, unload, etc.

I came up with a good idea and you're just haitin'.

 

[K1052]

At one point the FAA had stopped people from filing flight plans to Haiti since they ran out of ramp space and fuel. Toussaint really isn't that big of an airport.

Some people are getting around it by flying into the Dominican Republic and trucking across the border.

 

[Hacp]

Why couldn't they fly them into Florida and find a boat for them? I mean it, why have to fly into Haiti? Then transport them onshore from that boat via smaller ones, you don't even need a dock. wtf

Because that would be too logical.

 

[jackschmittusa]

We've already got a carrier off the coast making fresh water. The carrier also almost certainly has several tanker aircraft aboard. Although their capacity is somewhat limited, it would seem an obvious solution to refueling out-of-gas planes on the ground. It would not even be necessary to top off the stranded planes, enough to fly to Florida or other suitable destination with refueling facilities. Since the carrier is close enough to supply water, the tankers could easily make the round trip on their own tanks. A carrier has a lot of fuel and can be re-supplied at sea.

 

[StageLeft]

At one point the FAA had stopped people from filing flight plans to Haiti since they ran out of ramp space and fuel. Toussaint really isn't that big of an airport.

Some people are getting around it by flying into the Dominican Republic and trucking across the border.

I didn't even mention that because it seems so obvious I assumed roads were destroyed or something.

Puerto Rico's west coast looks several hundred miles from Haiti. You could do it within a day of sailing and it must have a lot of good airports and ports. I remember hearing in WWII regular joes with their yachts were being recruited to shuttle troops back to England. Is solo volunteering even allowed or does everything have to go through an overburdened bureaucracy? I just can't believe that these 80 specially trained and eager people with supplies honestly had no way to get to Haiti. It really is like people's lives depend on it.

 

[ProfJohn]

Ya, that is unfortunate. I think part of the issue is likely because it is now very unlikely to find many more survivors.

It is nice that so many Nations were willing to help, even Venezuela and Cuba sent/wanted to send help(for eg), but Logistically speaking the situation simply couldn't handle that much sudden inflow. Seems to me this is the perfect type of situation where the UN or some kind of International body would be best suited to coordinate and manage the most efficient response. This Body would have an updated list of Resources from willing Nations and have Pre-Planned Strategies for quick response. It alone would Request/Grant Resources/Clearance for any International Disaster Relief to a stricken area. As a counter-balance, the Stricken Nation(s) would be able to refuse Aid or Restrict Aid from the Organization.

Kinda like an International version of FEMA.

That is a joke right??

The UN do something efficiently? The UN is probably one the worst bureaucracies in the world. They are so worried about upsetting or offending anyone that they can't make any decisions at all. If the US offered five C-5 cargo plans full of food and Cuba offered a Cesna full of food the UN would tell the Americans to only send four planes in order to make room for the Cuba plane, after all we don't want to offend anyone who is offering help.

The US military should have been more involved from the start. This team could have been taken to a military base, flown to NAS Key West and then flown to the Carl Vinson via a C-2 and then taken ashore on a helicopter.

 

[K1052]

I didn't even mention that because it seems so obvious I assumed roads were destroyed or something.

Puerto Rico's west coast looks several hundred miles from Haiti. You could do it within a day of sailing and it must have a lot of good airports and ports. I remember hearing in WWII regular joes with their yachts were being recruited to shuttle troops back to England. Is solo volunteering even allowed or does everything have to go through an overburdened bureaucracy? I just can't believe that these 80 specially trained and eager people with supplies honestly had no way to get to Haiti. It really is like people's lives depend on it.

That's fine for people but with most of the meaningful port facilities destroyed and a relatively small airport capacity the the options for logistical support become extremely limited. They need supplies and heavy equipment to get into the country equipment to really be effective.

 

[sandorski]

That is a joke right??

The UN do something efficiently? The UN is probably one the worst bureaucracies in the world. They are so worried about upsetting or offending anyone that they can't make any decisions at all. If the US offered five C-5 cargo plans full of food and Cuba offered a Cesna full of food the UN would tell the Americans to only send four planes in order to make room for the Cuba plane, after all we don't want to offend anyone who is offering help.

The US military should have been more involved from the start. This team could have been taken to a military base, flown to NAS Key West and then flown to the Carl Vinson via a C-2 and then taken ashore on a helicopter.

UN Rant-o-Fail

 

[Pens1566]

Rescue at this point is highly unlikely ... non story.

 

[ProfJohn]

Rescue at this point is highly unlikely ... non story.

The OC team sat there for four days, so it is a story.

Had they made it to Haiti the day they were ready maybe they could have made a difference.

 

[EagleKeeper]

The lack of fuel is an excuse.
A plane can land, disembark the load (people/cargo) and take off to refuel in Puerto Rico.

Aircraft are not coming in on dry tanks. They are landing and parking while their passengers head out for photo ops.

The aircraft could then be shuttled over to PR and parked on terminal overflow strips until needed. 1 hr flight and the ability to have fuel and maintenance as needed.

 

[nobodyknows]

The OC team sat there for four days, so it is a story.

Had they made it to Haiti the day they were ready maybe they could have made a difference.

Speaking of stories,

Cruise ships still find a Haitian berth

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/jan/17/cruise-ships-haiti-earthquake

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2042781

 

[WHAMPOM]

Seems like there is plenty of airport room and fuel in Haiti these days to ferry in hundreds of reporters and news crews from around the world...

But not enough for our local search and rescue team:

http://www.ocregister.com/news/team-229610-mckeown-force.html

"An Orange County urban search-and-rescue team has been sent home after being marooned for four days at a reserve air force base waiting for a cargo plane to the devastated island of Haiti, authorities said...

"The federal task force, which had been stationed at March Air Reserve base in Riverside County, received word from the Federal Emergency Management Agency on Sunday night, informing members they would be sent home without fulfilling their mission, said Capt. Greg McKeown of the Orange County Fire Authority...

"The delay in dispatching the team was blamed on a logistical logjam that left the Caribbean nation's main airport flooded with planes that delivered rescuers, food and medicine but couldn't take off because there wasn't enough fuel to refuel them...

"Orange County's task force is made up of 80 people, including doctors, paramedics, structural engineers and specially trained rescuers. Stranded in Riverside, the Orange County task force members spent their time training at the base. Four search dogs assigned to the team were kept alert with constant preparation, said Battalion Chief Dave Phillips, a task force leader...

"According to official dispatches provided to the media by Task Force 5 and the Orange County Fire Authority, Task Force 5 kept busy Friday "restacking the equipment to fit inside the military aircraft. Meanwhile, the dog handlers took the dogs to a local training center to keep them ready by getting them some exercise..."

What ever happened to the "72-hour window of opportunity" to find people buried under the earthquake rubble...?

The window ran out and the mission was cancelled.

 

[K1052]

The lack of fuel is an excuse.
A plane can land, disembark the load (people/cargo) and take off to refuel in Puerto Rico.

Aircraft are not coming in on dry tanks. They are landing and parking while their passengers head out for photo ops.

The aircraft could then be shuttled over to PR and parked on terminal overflow strips until needed. 1 hr flight and the ability to have fuel and maintenance as needed.

The airport was basically out of commission until the USAF came in and took it over. No comm, ground security, or power. Couple that with pretty limited ramp/apron space and there is going to be problems.

It would probably be best to ship everything through Homestead and use C-5/C-17s to get it out there.

 

[JTsyo]

We've already got a carrier off the coast making fresh water. The carrier also almost certainly has several tanker aircraft aboard. Although their capacity is somewhat limited, it would seem an obvious solution to refueling out-of-gas planes on the ground. It would not even be necessary to top off the stranded planes, enough to fly to Florida or other suitable destination with refueling facilities. Since the carrier is close enough to supply water, the tankers could easily make the round trip on their own tanks. A carrier has a lot of fuel and can be re-supplied at sea.

No, they don't. There's no way a loaded tanker is taking off from a carrier. look at the size of one.

 

[EagleKeeper]

No, they don't. There's no way a loaded tanker is taking off from a carrier. look at the size of one.

The Airforce uses different platforms (KC130,KC135,KC10,KC17) than the Navy(A3/A6/S-3)

However, the Navy has oilers to refuel the carrier. One of those oilers could put into port and offload jet fuel.

Will the Navy jet fuel be compatible with the civilian fuel??

You are not going to put potable water into any fuel tank unless the tank has not been used.

 

[Sacrilege]

The plane had to be turned back because Bill and Chelsea Clinton were there making sure to get some good photo ops in....