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NYTimes: In Battle Of Consoles, Nintendo Gains Allies

jpeyton

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July 17, 2007
By MATT RICHTEL and ERIC A. TAUB

SANTA MONICA, Calif. ? In the competition among the makers of video game consoles, momentum is building for the Wii from Nintendo among its crucial allies: game developers and publishers.

Inspired by the early success of the Wii, the companies that create and distribute games are beginning to shift resources and personnel toward building more Wii games, in some cases at the expense of the competing systems: the PlayStation 3 from Sony and Xbox 360 from Microsoft.

The shift is closely watched because consumers tend to favor systems that have many compelling games. More resources diverted to the Wii would mean more games, and that would translate into more consumers buying Wii consoles later.

Jon Goldman, chairman and chief executive of Foundation 9 Entertainment, an independent game development company, said that he was hearing a growing call for Wii games from the publishers and distributors that finance the games that his firm creates. ?Publishers are saying: Instead of spending $15 million or $20 million on one PS3 game, come back to me with five or six Wii pitches,? he said.

?We had one meeting two weeks ago with a publisher that was asking for Wii games,? said Mr. Goldman, who declined to identify the video game publisher that he met. ?Three or four months ago, they didn?t want to hear Word 1 about the Wii.?


Nintendo said that titles would be coming from several major developers, like Activision and Ubisoft, that are making an enhanced commitment to the platform.

The interest in the Wii follows a period of uncertainty about the console by developers and publishers. They were initially cautious because the Wii was less technologically sophisticated, and they worried that consumers would not take to its unorthodox game play, which uses a motion-controlled wand that players move to direct action on the screen. For example, to serve balls in the tennis game, players circle their arms overhead as they would in real tennis.

History gave developers and publishers reason for caution, too. Nintendo?s last system, the GameCube, was initially a hot seller, but was ultimately outsold ? and by a considerable margin ? by the PlayStation 2 and Xbox. Also, Nintendo has historically made many of the popular games for its own systems, in a way that has discouraged heavy participation by other developers and publishers.

The shift does not represent any shunning of the Xbox or Sony consoles, but rather an elevation of the Wii?s status ? one that was clear in many conversations with developers and publishers at E3, the video game industry?s annual trade show in Santa Monica, Calif.

It is early in the current console product cycle, given that these machines are intended to be on the market for more than five years. Industry analysts say they do not expect to declare a victor anytime soon. Nevertheless, the trend is clear: Nintendo is getting growing support from game developers.

?We?re seeing a big shift at E3,? said John Davison, editorial director of 1UP Network, a network of video game Web sites and magazines, ?and we?ll see more later this year.? He said he was seeing some game publishers putting less emphasis on the PlayStation 3. ?But they?re not going to talk about that,? he added.

Since its first appearance in stores in November, the Wii has been outselling the Xbox 360 and PS3, which came out the same month, and it continues to be in short supply. The NPD Group, a market research firm, reported that as of May, Americans had purchased 2.8 million Wii systems, compared with 1.4 million PS3s. About 5.6 million Xbox 360 consoles have sold, but it hit the market a year earlier.

The Wii has clearly benefited from a price advantage; it costs $250, compared with $300 for the least-expensive Xbox 360 and $479 for the top-of-the-line machine. The PS3 sells for $500, after a price cut by Sony to clear inventory in advance of the Christmas selling season, when its new $600 device will be offered. Microsoft has been hampered of late by widespread product failures, and the company said it would spend $1.15 billion to repair individual machines.

While the growing size of the Wii?s customer base is attractive, developers are favoring Wii for other reasons. They are able to create games in less time than is needed for rival systems, because Wii?s graphics are less complex.

Colin Sebastian, a video game industry analyst with Lazard Capital Markets, said that in rough terms, it cost around $5 million to develop a game for the Wii compared with $10 million to $20 million to make a game for the Xbox 360 or PS3. Mr. Sebastian said that given the cost differences, a developer would need to sell 300,000 copies of a Wii game to break even, compared with 600,000 of a game for the PS3 or Xbox 360.

?Wii development costs certainly are cheaper than the other consoles,? said Scott A. Steinberg, a vice president for marketing at the game developer Sega of America. The company has a number of original Wii projects under development and uses 15 to 25 programmers to develop a Wii title, compared with 50 or more for a PS3 or Xbox 360 game.

Because of its simpler graphics, development times for Wii games are also shorter. A Wii game can be created in as little as 12 months, said Kelly Flock, executive vice president for worldwide publishing at THQ, a video game developer based in Agoura Hills, Calif. Games for the two competing consoles typically take two to three years.

He said that the budget for a Wii game ranges from $1.5 million to $4 million, compared with the $10 million to $12 million the company spends on a PS3 or Xbox 360 game.

?The Wii is a godsend,? Mr. Flock said. ?We are aggressively looking for more Wii titles.?

By this holiday season, Nintendo will have added 100 games to its existing 60 titles. Sony has said that it will double the number of titles for the PS3 to 120 by the end of March, while Microsoft said it would have 300 titles for the Xbox 360 by the Christmas selling season. ?I don?t think you?ll see any big shifts to one platform because you?re supporting so many,? said Kathy Vrabeck, president of the casual entertainment division of Electronic Arts. That said, she added that there had been a clear shift in mood at the company toward the Wii.

?There is a clear sense of excitement about the Wii at E.A.,? she said.

George Harrison, Nintendo?s senior vice president for marketing, said, ?Electronic Arts is doing much more for us than they have in the past.?

Sony counters that, to some extent, Wii developers, publishers and game players will get what they pay for: games with less-complex graphics.

?There is some truth to the fact that you can make games for Wii for less than the PS3,? said Peter Dille, senior vice president for marketing at Sony. ?But we still believe that our job is to develop big-budget games.?

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Great news for Wii owners. Developers and publishers played "wait and see" with the Wii, and apparently they've seen enough.
 
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
So basically, the Devs are using the Wii to get easy money by creating minigames?
Give the people what they want and they'll buy it.

I guess that means they want minigames and they don't want a $600 Blu Ray player.
 
2007: a rush to shovel out wii cheap and shoddy games.

2008: 80%-90% of the junk games don't sell, publishers put the resources back into games for the 360 and PS3.

Business out for a quick buck always oversaturates a hot area with a flood of me-too product, like the mini boom in "torture porn" movies following the success of Saw.
 
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
2007: a rush to shovel out wii cheap and shoddy games.

2008: 80%-90% of the junk games don't sell, publishers put the resources back into games for the 360 and PS3.

Business out for a quick buck always oversaturates a hot area with a flood of me-too product, like the mini boom in "torture porn" movies following the success of Saw.
How is that any different than the PSOne or PS2 model? Developers flocked to both systems and shoved out hundreds of shoddy titles, but there were some great ones in there too. Both systems dominated their respected generations because of their large libraries. Nintendo should be flattered if the market gets flooded with games for their system, even crap ones.

If you can read the article, you'll learn that Wii games are cheaper because they need less programmers and development time to make. The development tools have already been there for a generation (many carried over from the Gamecube), and the platform is a lot easier to code for than the PS3.

Try again later.
 
I think that the Wii will get a lot of titles, but since it does take much less resources I believe that many developers will opt to do Wii games on top of the PS3/Xbox 360 games.

Somehow I don't see Team Ninja porting NGS to the Wii.
 
Originally posted by: DaveSimmons
2007: a rush to shovel out wii cheap and shoddy games.

2008: 80%-90% of the junk games don't sell, publishers put the resources back into games for the 360 and PS3.

Business out for a quick buck always oversaturates a hot area with a flood of me-too product, like the mini boom in "torture porn" movies following the success of Saw.

I agree with this statement. Nintendo certainly has come out with an innovative product with a lot of potential, but they do have a few problems to overcome:

1) Get casual gamers to buy a lot of games. Obvioiusly Nintendo does not lose money for each Wii purchased...so they are not in as dire a situation as the other two manufacturers to profit from games...but they still need this revenue.

2) Ensure their control scheme doesn't turn from a novel idea to a gimmick. Obviously the games Nintendo has put out have proven to have good, intuitive controls...but how well will 3rd party developers do in creating games with fun controls? As an example...Ubi didn't do so well with Red Steel...controls seemed forced to take advantage of this "novel" controller

3) Fend off graphics envy as hardware gets cheaper and HDTV's get more popular. As people buy more and more HDTV's, they are more likely to buy video game systems that take advantage of their new TV. Also, MS will be able to greatly reduce their prices on the 360 by fall (the only thing holding them back is the huge charge they took on reliability issues). Someone who sees a AAA 360/PS3 game on a HDTV will have a hard time buying a Wii when they could get either system for under $200.

4) While Wii offers several online options...it is missing the most important online component...the ability to play against your friends online. You can deny it all you want...but this is a major part of gaming as our world becomes more and more connected. For years, this was one of the biggest advantages of PC gaming.
 
If you can read the article, you'll learn that Wii games are cheaper because they need less programmers and development time to make. The development tools have already been there for a generation (many carried over from the Gamecube), and the platform is a lot easier to code for than the PS3.

Sure, making standard-def gamecube games for wii is easier than making a next-generation game for the 360 and PS3, but with the right middleware libraries (unreal 3 engine and others) your one title can sell to both platforms for much, much less than the cost of creating 2 different games.

It's a battle between wii and (360 plus PS3), not wii vs. PS3.

Actually, the PS2 is still in there fighting the wii for the low end as well. Some of the E3 announcements had the 360 and PS3 getting an AAA title while the wii, PSP and PS2 shared a low-end spinoff.

How is that any different than the PSOne or PS2 model? Developers flocked to both systems and shoved out hundreds of shoddy titles, but there were some great ones in there too. Both systems dominated their respected generations because of their large libraries.
The PS2 is still here at half the price and with thousands more games, so people lured by shovelware might buy it and a pile of games instead of the wii.

But you're right that when people make their "4 or 5 wii game" proposals instead of 1 360/PS3 game, there might be a good game in the 4 along with the 3 minigame collections.

It's still an open question how much of an appetite wii owners have for non-Nintendo titles (ignoring launch titles with no competition), and whether people will keep wanting 480p games as more of them upgrade to HDTVs.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton

I guess that means they want minigames and they don't want a $600 Blu Ray player.

Originally posted by: jpeyton

If you can read the article, you'll learn that Wii games are cheaper because they need less programmers and development time to make. The development tools have already been there for a generation (many carried over from the Gamecube), and the platform is a lot easier to code for than the PS3.

Try again later.

I love how you keep your focus on hatred of PS3, yet you don't even mention Xbox 360 even though the article clearly relates to that console as well. :roll:
 
On the Wii, I have only enjoyed: Zelda, Excite Truck, Raving Rabbits, and that is about it. I pretty much beat all 3 of them (raving rabbits has a bug preventing you from unlocking 100% of it.) The rest suxors or doesn't appeal to me. Paper Mario looks great, but not my style.
Can't wait for two nintendo games (SMG and Metroid)
Meanwhile, there is 5 releases I want on the xbox that I can't wait for.
It's 2 different audiences, really.
 
Originally posted by: Dacalo
I love how you keep your focus on hatred of PS3, yet you don't even mention Xbox 360 even though the article clearly relates to that console as well. :roll:
The 360 isn't in any kind of trouble. With a year sales lead and solid monthly sales in North America, they too are getting the attention of developers and publishers (Devil May Cry, Ace Combat, Grand Theft Auto, etc.) that were Sony-only last generation.
 
Originally posted by: foghorn67
On the Wii, I have only enjoyed: Zelda, Excite Truck, Raving Rabbits, and that is about it. I pretty much beat all 3 of them (raving rabbits has a bug preventing you from unlocking 100% of it.) The rest suxors or doesn't appeal to me. Paper Mario looks great, but not my style.
Can't wait for two nintendo games (SMG and Metroid)
Meanwhile, there is 5 releases I want on the xbox that I can't wait for.
It's 2 different audiences, really.

If by "raving rabbits has a bug preventing you from unlocking 100% of it" you mean you've gotten 1000 points in every game in Score Mode and you're still not at 100%... <golf clap> Some of those 1000 point requirements are darn near unachievable.

If by "raving rabbits has a bug preventing you from unlocking 100% of it" you mean that some of the 1000 point goals in Score mode are unachievable... yeah, I agree.

I guess I fall into both audiences. I see the benefits to both approaches, and there are a lot of games (and future games) that I like or am looking forward to on my Wii and my 360.
 
Originally posted by: mugs
Originally posted by: foghorn67
On the Wii, I have only enjoyed: Zelda, Excite Truck, Raving Rabbits, and that is about it. I pretty much beat all 3 of them (raving rabbits has a bug preventing you from unlocking 100% of it.) The rest suxors or doesn't appeal to me. Paper Mario looks great, but not my style.
Can't wait for two nintendo games (SMG and Metroid)
Meanwhile, there is 5 releases I want on the xbox that I can't wait for.
It's 2 different audiences, really.

If by "raving rabbits has a bug preventing you from unlocking 100% of it" you mean you've gotten 1000 points in every game in Score Mode and you're still not at 100%... <golf clap> Some of those 1000 point requirements are darn near unachievable.

If by "raving rabbits has a bug preventing you from unlocking 100% of it" you mean that some of the 1000 point goals in Score mode are unachievable... yeah, I agree.

I guess I fall into both audiences. I see the benefits to both approaches, and there are a lot of games (and future games) that I like or am looking forward to on my Wii and my 360.

I'm with you on that. Neither of those two consoles can supplant one another.

Raving Rabbids, me, my friend and his wife worked for hours trying get 1000 points on everything. Then gave up for a while when learning about the bug. I do think we got the game as high as it can go (within reason) IIRC.
It has been a couple/few months since last played it. We are rabbited out for now.
 
Originally posted by: Dacalo


I love how you keep your focus on hatred of PS3, yet you don't even mention Xbox 360 even though the article clearly relates to that console as well. :roll:

Well I didn't read the entire article, but

#1 this isn't unexpected given sales numbers of the consoles
#2 I scanned it and saw "XBOX" at least 4 times in it so someone else must not have read it either
 
In stark contrast to what the developers in the article are saying, if you look at the various threads on this forum (like this) and see what people here are planning on buying you'll see that the lists are still dominated by 360 and PS3 games. But I guess most of us here aren't in the casual market Nintendo is shooting for.
 
Originally posted by: jpeyton
Originally posted by: tenshodo13
So basically, the Devs are using the Wii to get easy money by creating minigames?
Give the people what they want and they'll buy it.

I guess that means they want minigames and they don't want a $600 Blu Ray player.

IMO, Xbox Live Arcade is a testiment to that.
 
Originally posted by: BlameCanada
I think that the Wii will get a lot of titles, but since it does take much less resources I believe that many developers will opt to do Wii games on top of the PS3/Xbox 360 games.

Somehow I don't see Team Ninja porting NGS to the Wii.

team ninja could port ninja gainden to Wii very easily. and if it keeps selling like hot cinnamon buns they WILL. unless m$ or $ony pay thme no too.
 
Originally posted by: michaels
If Wii is the future of gaming, I am done for good.

why? cuz it pushes the boundries of what gaming is today? because of 10+ years of no innovations (at all) except online and better graphics Wii finally offers something innovative. seriously why ?
 
Originally posted by: tanishalfelven
why? cuz it pushes the boundries of what gaming is today? because of 10+ years of no innovations (at all) except online and better graphics Wii finally offers something innovative. seriously why ?

michaels is a fairly hardcore 360 fanboy. Don't question him, you'll just get garbage spewed at you.
 
Originally posted by: Sraaz
Originally posted by: tanishalfelven
why? cuz it pushes the boundries of what gaming is today? because of 10+ years of no innovations (at all) except online and better graphics Wii finally offers something innovative. seriously why ?

michaels is a fairly hardcore 360 fanboy. Don't question him, you'll just get garbage spewed at you.

ahh rookie mistake. i know all the trolls/fanboys of the video forum. gotta learn the new ones of the gaming forum.
 
It's harder here since many of us own, or plan to buy, multiple "next gen" consoles. I have a PS3 now but plan to also get the 360's 65nm Reliable Edition once it's shipping.

360 + wii is probably most common, and those owners usually have no reason to settle for the wii version of a cross-platform game unless the waggle is so good it can overcome the much weaker graphics. While the wii-only owners try to convince themselves that graphics don't ever matter as long as wagglin' goes on 🙂
 
Well when your graphics look anything like mine do at max detail on a 1920x1600 rez, this wii owner may then care. Until then consoles are still just for quick fun.
 
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