NYPD spying on innocent Muslims

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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
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Clearly being Muslim isn't the only factor, but if you go back and check on the criteria that other govt. agencies have used for surveillance on Islamic groups in the past, some of their reasoning is pretty hilariously bad. While I doubt it is as bad as throwing darts at a board, I feel it's pretty likely that they are stupidly wasting fairly sizable resources.

If you go back to my first post, you'll see in the very first sentence I acknowledge that their reasons may be quite bad. An educated guess would be that some students at these universities allege that they have heard extremist remarks from members of these groups, and called the cops.

While your point is valid, I am having a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge that other reasons exist, who asserts innocence and claims he need not prove his assertion, and who keeps claiming that "all" Muslims are being surveilled. I feel like if there's a valid point to be made here, it can be made absent such hyperbole.

My own view of the situation is that this is really a matter of government accountability for how they are spending our tax dollars. No doubt the NYPD has a terrorism division/task force these days with its own budget that is probably sizable for obvious political reasons, and they conduct these activities with low success probability because they need something to do with that budget and there isn't anything more compelling. If this is the best they can do with the money, then maybe their budget needs to be re-assessed.
 
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fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,503
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If you go back to my first post, you'll see in the very first sentence I acknowledge that their reasons may be quite bad. An educated guess would be that some students at these universities allege that they have heard extremist remarks from members of these groups, and called the cops.

While your point is valid, I am having a discussion with someone who refuses to acknowledge that other reasons exist, who asserts innocence and claims he need not prove his assertion, and who keeps claiming that "all" Muslims are being surveilled. I feel like if there's a valid point to be made here, it can be made absent such hyperbole.

I would agree with that.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
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You are mixing up investigating with searches and wiretaps which require a warrant. The standard required to investigate is far lower than for searches.

Spying on someone for 3 to 5 years is investigating? I don't think so. Following someone for maybe 1-2 months is investigating.
 

GarfieldtheCat

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2005
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You keep using the word "all." They aren't spying on "all" Muslims. Clearly they don't have that capability. It's unlikely they are spying on more than a tiny fraction of Muslims even in their own geographical area. Your premise seems to be that they're spying on all Muslims, but with non-Muslims, they would only spy if they had good reasons, the difference being prejudice. But that just cannot be the case.

They are spying on a fair percentage (way out of proportion to spying on non-Muslims). How's that? Doesn't really change anything though. And spying on them for 3+ years. That is a long term ongoing operation, not a one time check on people. Sounds pretty systemic to me.

EDIT: I don't think I ever said anywhere that the NYPD is spying on ALL Muslims anyway, that would be impossible

I don't doubt that stereotyping is a factor in their selection criteria here. But they can't spy on all Muslims, so if the fact of them being Muslim is the only factor here, then they are essentially throwing darts at a board to decide which Muslims to spy on. If that is the case, then what a colossal waste of the limited budget and resources they have at their disposal. If that is truly what's going on, then not only are they prejudiced, they're also amazingly stupid. Even an Islamaphobe can see that spending time surveilling a randomly chosen Muslim is exceedingly unlikely to yield a conviction or even an arrest.

- wolf

So it's wrong, correct? Stereotyping and continuing to spy for years with no reason (certainly no arrests) is a waste of time and money, and probably harassment to boot. Perhaps illegal if taken to court?

But they continue to do it, and refuse to comment. Gee, I wonder why? Caught doing something wrong again, so they clam up and claim "secrecy" so they don't have to defend themselves. Typical.
 
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nanette1985

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 2005
4,209
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The folks who live in the condo above me are brownish and dress funny and speak accented English. Shortly after i moved in we (condo residents) noticed that there were a lot of NYPD folks hanging around watching and taking pictures etc. I try to be nice to the upstairs neighbors, so I chat with them and make small talk. Also, they had a plumbing problem back when I first moved in (water dripping into my kitchen from their dishwasher) There were plumbers and pipe fitters all over the place having technical discussions. Now I'm concerned that I might find my picture on a suspected terrorist accomplice pin-up board somewhere. How to prove my innocence?
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
26,907
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Its a well-known fact that bomb making causes dishwasher leaks.

Be scared, very scared.

Fern
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
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Spying on someone for 3 to 5 years is investigating? I don't think so. Following someone for maybe 1-2 months is investigating.

This is speaking from your experience in law enforcement and counter-terrorism? Or just your experience as a terrorist sympathizer?