• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

NYPD Police Shoots & Kill a Man Near Times Square

Page 3 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
19,273
2,095
126
Plenty of those officers had non-lethal means of disposal on hand, I'm sure.
Ah - if you are so sure - then how many and what type? If you are sure so you must have some supporting evidence right? I think most people underestimate the risk a knife holds inside the 21ft rule that DucatiMonster696 posted about
 

Pr0d1gy

Diamond Member
Jan 30, 2005
7,775
0
76
Ah - if you are so sure - then how many and what type? If you are sure so you must have some supporting evidence right? I think most people underestimate the risk a knife holds inside the 21ft rule that DucatiMonster696 posted about
So you're telling me is that there are all these videos all over the web of police tasering people and out of 20+ officers none of them was carrying a taser?

The burden of proof does not lie with me, I didn't shoot anyone and don't even own a gun. But when you shoot someone after having them outnumbered 20+ to 1 and the crowd is even screaming unjustified, that is pretty damning.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
Actually, it does. You made a claim of something and therefor you need to support it.

It is possible some of them had non-lethal weapons on hand, but I would not bet my life on it if I was the officer the guy lunged at with a knife. I would shoot him down with as many shots as it took to change the direction of his attack.
 

PowerYoga

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
4,603
0
0
You think this is a video game or something? "Just use nonlethal means"? It's like you think all the cops just have a hp pool and they can take a few stabs no problem, they'll eat donuts to recover their hp during break time. :rolleyes:

Put yourself in the cop's position. You want to be the big man and take one for the team bro? Just eat that knife with your gut and hope you don't die, its fine. :rolleyes:
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Administrator
Mar 5, 2001
49,606
162
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
More and MORE cops show up and THEN you decide to shoot the guy? That's for a "when my life is in danger" scenario, your life isn't in danger when 20+ of your homies can back you up with metal sticks over twice the length of ONE assholes knife. Ridiculous.
There was never a time that they wanted to shoot the guy. The guy forced them to by lunging at them with a knife. They tried repeatedly to get him to stop, without resorting to their guns.
As it happens, Iman Morales, 35, was naked and waving a fluorescent light bulb at officers as he stood on a ledge. After a half-hour standoff with the police a Lt. Michael Pigott ordered Officer Nicholas Marchesona to fire his taser. Naked and crazy Mr. Morales fell off head first and died.

Death by taser, right?

Combine a few more such instances and a few incidents where individual officers misused their issued tasers and all of a sudden the good citizens of NYC are up in arms demanding that these less thanoccasionally lethal force devices be held back from the patrol force.
How do you say that his death was directly the result of being tased in one sentence, then two sentences later, say that they can't cause death? 404 error on logic.
This is what happens when the police do not use guns to stop a knife attacker:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUoOzlQqqkg

Four police were injured. Luckily none died.
This is very relevant. A guy was outnumbered and FOUR suffered serious wounds. One stabbed in the stomach. Just a slight change of angle of a knife and that stomach stabbing could have gone upward slightly, piercing the heart or lungs.

20 on one, or hell, 100 on one - I cannot believe that anyone would think that there's zero chance of one of them getting stabbed by a knife. A stabbing has a reasonable expectation to be lethal. And, no one has any idea of the guy holding the knife has average fighting skills, above average fighting skills, or no clue what to do with the knife.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
How do you say that his death was directly the result of being tased in one sentence, then two sentences later, say that they can't cause death? 404 error on logic.
You are misinterpreting what I wrote.

I was being facetious with the statement "death by taser."

The perp died from falling forward and cracking his skull, his death was not directly from the application of electric current from the taser.

Liberal advocates against use of any force, however, do interpret an incidental death like this to be "death by taser," ie if he hadn't been tasered, he wouldn't have fallen and then he wouldn't have cracked his skull and died.

The manufacturer claims that there have been 3 million uses of Taser devices worldwide, with only eight reported incidents of concern, ie documented instances of cardiac arrest. Even those eight incidents don't have clear causality as the subjects had other issues, like drug use, that are likely to be contributing factors.

Amnesty International claims 300 cases, but their methodology is very suspect and documentation very poor. I have no doubt that if used as an instrument of torture with repeated and prolonged applications the target would have significant and likely lasting physical effects.

I believe that as less-than-lethal devices they are quite effective, but they are not perfect as I have stated.
 

Theb

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
3,533
8
76
If you don't want the police to kill you, don't point weapons at them.

 

Sinsear

Diamond Member
Jan 13, 2007
6,434
79
91
I've been to times square numerous times during daytime, it is fucking CROWDED. I would be pissed of cops opened fire near me over something like that. Where the hell were the tasers?
Only ESU cops and some patrol supervisors carry tasers in the nypd; regular cops do not. When confronting a perp with a knife with useof it imminent, deadly physical force is authorized. You don't combat deadly physical force (knife) with non lethal force (taser/baton) But what do i know...It's not like i went through a police academy in new york....
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
13 rules of gunfighting

A) Guns have only two enemies: rust and politicians.

B) It’s always better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.

C) Cops carry guns to protect themselves, not you.

D) Never let someone or something that threatens you get inside arms length.

E) Never say “I’ve got a gun.” If you need to use deadly force, the first sound they hear should be the safety clicking off.

F) The average response time of a 911 call is 23 minutes, the response time of a .357 is 1400 feet per second.

G) The most important rule in a gunfight is: Always win – cheat if necessary.

H) Make your attacker advance through a wall of bullets…You may get killed with your own gun, but he’ll have to beat you to death with it, cause it’ll be empty.

I) If you’re in a gun fight:
If you’re not shooting, you should be loading.
If you’re not loading, you should be moving.
If you’re not shooting, moving or loading, you’re probably dead.

J) In a life and death situation, do something…It may be wrong, but do something!

K) If you carry a gun, people call you paranoid. Nonsense! If you have a gun, what do you have to be paranoid about?

L) You can say ‘stop’ or ‘alto’ or any other word, but a large bore muzzle pointed at someone’s head is pretty much a universal language.

M) You cannot save the planet, but you may be able to save yourself and your family.
Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/cj-grishams-13-rules-of-gunfighting-everyone-should-know-2012-8#ixzz23qtJVegh
 

Exterous

Super Moderator
Jun 20, 2006
19,273
2,095
126
So you're telling me is that there are all these videos all over the web of police tasering people and out of 20+ officers none of them was carrying a taser?
I think you have a reading comprehension problem as I never said that at all. I simply asked you why you were sure in the complete and utter absence of any proof for your claim.

Furthermore all of the evidence seems to completely discredit your claim:

Officials said Monday that officers armed with Tasers were on their way during the standoff but didn't get there before the officers confronting Kennedy decided to fire.
A patrol sergeant and an Emergency Services Unit had the Tasers. NYPD protocols on the use of Tasers allow ESU cops and patrol sergeants to carry the stun guns, not individual patrol officers, officials said.
not one of the 20 officers who chased him was carrying a Taser
So unless you actually have some proof to back up your claim - the burden is indeed on you to prove it as all of the evidence says your claim is wrong at best

It appears as though only 10% are even issued tasers so statistics would appear to back up their claims and not yours

About 3,500 uniformed sergeants and other supervisors on patrol duty will be issued Tasers, costing about $500 each. The NYPD has 36,000 officers.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY