NY Times Gets a decade of Trumps Tax Figures

[fskimospy]

Trumpist Revisionist History Lesson #478:

“Trump losing billions in Manhattan/AC real estate was just him getting started pwning the coastal elite libs!”

'Think how much money you have to have in order to lose a billion dollars. He must be a genius!'

 

[zinfamous]

How the actual fuck do you manage to lose over 1B in the fucking 90s, especially in real estate. All he had to do was sit on his hands, property, especially in NY, appreciated like crazy IIRC.

It's because he is unquestionably the worst fucking "businessman" that has ever existed on this planet, you see.

 

[K1052]

The impression I get is it's "Yes, this is illegal, but everyone does it to some extent, so it's rarely prosecuted."

Laws are for the poor and non-white.

 

[Thump553]

Losing money, especially on that scale, in those go-go years toke a special kind of talent.

The real interesting thing would be '95-'05, which is likely when the Russians became his benefactors. Much greater chance of financial crimes then (on behalf of the Russians even if Trump was otherwise squeaky clean) and we would learn how much control they have over him (as if that control isn't already apparent to anyone who doesn't have their head buried in the sand).

 

[fskimospy]

Matt Yglesias as usual sums it up pretty well:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1126124112810782720

 

[zinfamous]

I like how he predictably tweets admissions of fraud. We could set our clocks to this boob's incompetence.

 

[Greenman]

Also Trump's 'defense' of his conduct is that he was taking massive depreciation write-offs and such that were not real monetary losses. That is also illegal and reasonably likely to be tax fraud.

So yeah, we really, REALLY need to see his tax returns now to determine the scope of this.

If the tax code allows deprecating real property, then it's not illegal at all.
I'm very curious to see what an actual CPA or tax attorney has to say about the released information. If Trumps losses were depreciation on real property, it's a non story as those losses only exist on paper. If he was actually incurring multi million dollar losses every year for ten years I'd like to know where that money came from.

 

[hal2kilo]

If the tax code allows deprecating real property, then it's not illegal at all.
I'm very curious to see what an actual CPA or tax attorney has to say about the released information. If Trumps losses were depreciation on real property, it's a non story as those losses only exist on paper. If he was actually incurring multi million dollar losses every year for ten years I'd like to know where that money came from.

You're starting to get it.

 

[fskimospy]

If the tax code allows deprecating real property, then it's not illegal at all.
I'm very curious to see what an actual CPA or tax attorney has to say about the released information. If Trumps losses were depreciation on real property, it's a non story as those losses only exist on paper. If he was actually incurring multi million dollar losses every year for ten years I'd like to know where that money came from.

Not illegal insofar as those losses booked represent real depreciation. It is highly likely they are wildly exaggerated, which would be tax fraud.

Also, as the NYT notes even the depreciation he claimed wouldn't remotely cover the staggering scope of his losses.

 

[interchange]

Trump has always been about using his image to advance his power on the backs of others. Thing is, his image was never about accountability or trustworthiness. His image is about power. Every time his sleaze is exposed, he gets seen as being more powerful for taking advantage of the weak. It is only when the scale of his actual incompetence is seen in totality where he is truly exposed. But that's nearly impossible if people are motivated to see the power instead because they draw from it through affiliation.

I think the fundamental problem here is leadership from someone with contrasting values whom others can draw power from through affiliation. In a strange way, if Obama were a candidate now instead of preceding Trump, I think things might be different. But he no longer represents a source of growing power.

 

[K1052]

I intended to lose a billion dollars, much of it loans, through depreciation on assets with inflated basis seems a curious business strategy. Like crime.

I think the banks considered their losses real since none but DB (though a rather shady wealth arm) will do business with him anymore.

 

[hal2kilo]

Losing money, especially on that scale, in those go-go years toke a special kind of talent.

The real interesting thing would be '95-'05, which is likely when the Russians became his benefactors. Much greater chance of financial crimes then (on behalf of the Russians even if Trump was otherwise squeaky clean) and we would learn how much control they have over him (as if that control isn't already apparent to anyone who doesn't have their head buried in the sand).

Yea, the good old days when Kudlow was probably going threw through an 8 ball every other day. Only the best for this admin.

 

[woolfe9998]

Is that $1.17 billion in today's dollars or in 1985-1995 dollars? If it isn't adjusted real dollars then Trump lost closer to $2 billion.

 

[fskimospy]

Is that $1.17 billion in today's dollars or in 1985-1995 dollars? If it isn't adjusted real dollars then Trump lost closer to $2 billion.

Not adjusted real dollars so yes, closer to $2 billion.

 

[kage69]

So the guy whose dad created more than 300 revenue streams for him is also the single biggest loser in American financial history.

What a sorry fuck up this guy is. He rested on daddy's wealth, and when his lack of brains, character and business acumen pissed it all away and banks wanted nothing to do with him, he went to Russia.

Trump voters are the biggest damn suckers in history. Fuck all you people for making our country pay for your stupidity.

 

[SMOGZINN]

If Trumps losses were depreciation on real property, it's a non story as those losses only exist on paper.

If the losses were not real losses of actual value of the property then it is not legal to claim it.
In other words, if the value of the property did not actually go down, reducing it's ability to make income or sell for more than he bought it for, then he is not allowed to depreciate it. Either he lost real money, even if it is potential money (what he could sell the property for) or he is not allowed to write it off. If he depreciated the property and then it gained value later then he would have to claim that appreciation as income.

If he was actually incurring multi million dollar losses every year for ten years I'd like to know where that money came from.

That is the question, isn't it?

 

[hal2kilo]

Matt Yglesias as usual sums it up pretty well:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1126124112810782720

Like the comment about Trumps loyalist "they won't stick with a loser, but will stick with a cheater". Sounds about right.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Mofo will just say its fake news.

Yup, one of his lawyers already used the fake news card that insures the faithful will now disregard all factual evidence. - "
On Saturday, after further inquiries from The Times, a lawyer for the president, Charles J. Harder, wrote that the tax information was “demonstrably false,” and that the paper’s statements “about the president’s tax returns and business from 30 years ago are highly inaccurate.” He cited no specific errors, but on Tuesday added that “I.R.S. transcripts, particularly before the days of electronic filing, are notoriously inaccurate” and “would not be able to provide a reasonable picture of any taxpayer’s return.”

Mark J. Mazur, a former director of research, analysis and statistics at the I.R.S., said that, far from being considered unreliable, data used to create such transcripts had undergone quality control for decades and had been used to analyze economic trends and set national policy. In addition, I.R.S. auditors often refer to the transcripts as “handy” summaries of tax returns, said Mr. Mazur, now director of the nonpartisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center in Washington.

In fact, the source of The Times’s newly obtained information was able to provide several years of unpublished tax figures from the president’s father, the builder Fred C. Trump. They matched up precisely with Fred Trump’s actual returns, which had been obtained by The Times in the earlier investigation."

 

[hal2kilo]

Yup, one of his lawyers already used the fake news card that insures the faithful will now disregard all factual evidence. - "
On Saturday, after further inquiries from The Times, a lawyer for the president, Charles J. Harder, wrote that the tax information was “demonstrably false,” and that the paper’s statements “about the president’s tax returns and business from 30 years ago are highly inaccurate.” He cited no specific errors, but on Tuesday added that “I.R.S. transcripts, particularly before the days of electronic filing, are notoriously inaccurate” and “would not be able to provide a reasonable picture of any taxpayer’s return.”

Mark J. Mazur, a former director of research, analysis and statistics at the I.R.S., said that, far from being considered unreliable, data used to create such transcripts had undergone quality control for decades and had been used to analyze economic trends and set national policy. In addition, I.R.S. auditors often refer to the transcripts as “handy” summaries of tax returns, said Mr. Mazur, now director of the nonpartisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center in Washington.

In fact, the source of The Times’s newly obtained information was able to provide several years of unpublished tax figures from the president’s father, the builder Fred C. Trump. They matched up precisely with Fred Trump’s actual returns, which had been obtained by The Times in the earlier investigation."

What so pathetic about all of this history, is except for acutually having the tax returns, this information has been in the press for years. Also sad is that this angle doesn't work for the deplorables. They think it's cool that Trump cheated the big old bad government.

 

[nOOky]

So the guy whose dad created more than 300 revenue streams for him is also the single biggest loser in American financial history.

What a sorry fuck up this guy is. He rested on daddy's wealth, and when his lack of brains, character and business acumen pissed it all away and banks wanted nothing to do with him, he went to Russia.

Trump voters are the biggest damn suckers in history. Fuck all you people for making our country pay for your stupidity.

Yes, but he got them their conservative Supreme court picks, and lowered the corporate tax, and cut taxes for the wealthy, and killed anything good the previous administration did. These are huge in comparison to anything else he has done good or bad. We're all squabbling over what they perceive as "minor" compared to what he has "accomplished".

 

[Starbuck1975]

I need to look back at how many times you supported this fraud.

Distancing yourself already??

How soon before Trump turns into the coffee boy to his loyal base here??

Please, by all means go back and cite the posts where I support Trump. My post acknowledges him as a fraud and questions why NBC legitimized him as a real estate mogul, which began his path to the Presidency.

In your perpetually triggered TDS state, I suppose your post makes sense.

 

[woolfe9998]

So the guy whose dad created more than 300 revenue streams for him is also the single biggest loser in American financial history.

What a sorry fuck up this guy is. He rested on daddy's wealth, and when his lack of brains, character and business acumen pissed it all away and banks wanted nothing to do with him, he went to Russia.

Trump voters are the biggest damn suckers in history. Fuck all you people for making our country pay for your stupidity.

Trump has only ever had one real talent, if you can call it that. His willingness to lie, about everything, all the time, without shame, without apparent concern for ever facing the consequences. He's literally built his entire life around it. From his image as a great businessman to his "success" as POTUS and everything in between.

The sad part is, you don't have to even be good at it. Trump isn't any good at it. He's a crappy liar. It's just the willingness to do it, often enough - that is his true talent. He'd never have gotten anywhere without it. It's truly the (open) secret of his success.

 

[Luna1968]

And? He bought failing businesses and let the go into bankruptcy so he could build them and get them at rock bottom prices. For fucks sake. What does that have to do with how hes running the country? he explained it during the debates. But the sheep will continue to eat the grass fed to it by the wolves.

 

[fleshconsumed]

And? He bought failing businesses and let the go into bankruptcy so he could build them and get them at rock bottom prices. For fucks sake. What does that have to do with how hes running the country? he explained it during the debates. But the sheep will continue to eat the grass fed to it by the wolves.

Well... he did promise to run the country like his businesses, so...

 

[Luna1968]

So the guy whose dad created more than 300 revenue streams for him is also the single biggest loser in American financial history.

What a sorry fuck up this guy is. He rested on daddy's wealth, and when his lack of brains, character and business acumen pissed it all away and banks wanted nothing to do with him, he went to Russia.

Trump voters are the biggest damn suckers in history. Fuck all you people for making our country pay for your stupidity.

"Decade in the red"...still becomes a BILLIONAIRE. Lol