NY Times Deceptive Editing of Bundy Remarks

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shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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I don't see what him being racist has to do with the core issue which he is fighting against. It gets annoying to have someone's character assassinated to draw attention away from what they are fighting against in the first place. It happens on both sides, just like Julian Assange.

You're right. Being a racist in no way detracts from Bundy's message that people who own cattle should be able to graze for free on government property. In fact, what makes Bundy's message even more powerful is his amazingly perceptive observation that the effects of living on the government's largesse are even worse than living as a slave, and that's why he should be allowed to graze his cattle on the government's largesse. Because, obviously, Bundy views himself as being "the negro," and grazing his cattle for free is Bundy's way of punishing himself, because no one will allow him to live an idealized existence as a cotton-picking slave.

Any thinking person would clearly be able to understand this line of reasoning if all of Bundy's comments had been provided.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
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I always took his statement to mean that the welfare culture created by the government is so hideously bad, that it is even worse than the slavery they endured before.
 

row

Senior member
May 28, 2013
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the bottom line is about the only thing the msm doesn't spin or outright lie about, print or otherwise, is in the food section. lemmings here eat this shit up when it reinforces the progressive agenda.
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
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I always took his statement to mean that the welfare culture created by the government is so hideously bad, that it is even worse than the slavery they endured before.

Yes, that's a reasonable interpretation. But the point is that believing that living in slavery could in any way, shape, or form be better than living under today's welfare state is the very definition of racism and ignorance.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Yes, that's a reasonable interpretation. But the point is that believing that living in slavery could in any way, shape, or form be better than living under today's welfare state is the very definition of racism and ignorance.

I see someone is unfamiliar with:

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/hyperbole

Seems to me the liberals have just redefined racism to mean anything that makes them feel uncomfortable.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
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Yes, that's a reasonable interpretation. But the point is that believing that living in slavery could in any way, shape, or form be better than living under today's welfare state is the very definition of racism and ignorance.

ignorance? perhaps. his thought can be debated. though i would say overall they are better off today. how much more is the debate.

racism? no. if people think its racism then we can't talk at all about blacks in any way that may have a negative to it all of it would fall under "racism".
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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I've seen the full quote posted a few times, I still find it racist as hell and it isn't hyperbole, even if it was, it is still racist.

The proof to me that it was racist is why did he even feel the need to talk about race? He gazing "rights" (theft) has nothing to do with race, so why even talk about it? And if asked, why not keep your mouth shut?

But, just like all racists I know, he couldn't help himself, he had a microphone in front of him and he just had to get diarrhea of the mouth and tell people what he really thought. Just like my racist cousins that you can't talk to for more than 10 minutes without race coming up some how.
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
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I am not a racists, but,.... bunch of racists things = racist.

How and why are so many people having trouble getting this?
 

schmuckley

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2011
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The comments he made were not racist.They are pretty much what anyone with powers of observation would say.
 

Olikan

Platinum Member
Sep 23, 2011
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I always took his statement to mean that the welfare culture created by the government is so hideously bad, that it is even worse than the slavery they endured before.

yeah, that's what IMO he meant... still very wrong in any shape and angle
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
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Yes, that's a reasonable interpretation. But the point is that believing that living in slavery could in any way, shape, or form be better than living under today's welfare state is the very definition of racism and ignorance.

I think you need to look up the definition of racism.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
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Im going to post this again, because I dont think anyone has answered it yet.


"You cant say that it was hyperbole when you place everything in context, Ironic I know.

Below is what you are saying is hyperbole.

"And I’ve often wondered are they were better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things? Or are they better off under government subsidy?"

Now, before this, he talks about what he saw. Everything that he listed was objectively negative. All of this is happening under welfare and not slavery. So he paints the picture of bad things. And after all of this, he adds the below statement


"You know they didn’t get more freedom, uh they got less freedom – they got less family life, and their happiness -you could see it in their faces- they were not happy sitting on that concrete sidewalk. Down there they was probably growing their turnips – so that’s all government, that’s not freedom."

So to break it down. First they had slavery, and now they have welfare in his view. He explains how he does not think welfare is as good of a situation as slavery, because under slavery they had more happiness.

Furthermore, even the site you links posts this as a statement and not a question.

"They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never, they never learned how to pick cotton."

I am a libertarian. I do believe that a welfare state is a bad Idea. I enjoy Thomas Sowell. Having said that, its pretty easy to see that the comments are racist."
 

Attic

Diamond Member
Jan 9, 2010
4,282
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You seem to think that the area in bold letters means something. Saying that blacks might have been better off under slavery than government welfare. Its not some horrific edit because it was not important to the racist part.

You can't say "I love blacks" and the follow it up with "but man, they might be better off as slaves than on government welfare". If you don't understand how that is racist, then you don't understand what racism is.

I disagree. I am stunned at how what he said was edited to remove important context. What he said was harsh, but without context it was made to be something it was not IMO. So it appears to me the removal of some of what Bundy said was malicous.

I'm a bit close to home on stuff like this. I have had similar things done, though more malicious, to edit parts of what I said to cause great personal relationship issues. It's somewhat easy to make someone say what you want them to say by getting them to say a lot and then clipping out parts of significant context and lead up.

Sounds like Bundy's position is that government is oppressive and that he doesn't want minorities to be oppressed because being oppressed is like slavery. He could have delivered it better, but I get what he is saying, and it is clear that the edits of what he said were done for effect rather than putting out Bundy's real viewpoint. He's actually advocating for minority rights, it's just that his approach is going to be foreign to most liberals who think government is the answer to peoples problems. Right or wrong, Bundy is saying government has a role in oppressing minorities. He should have said government has a role in oppressing the non privleged/poor which is what I took his reasoning to lead me to believe. The race card is going to always come out on top though.

In this case the malicious editing from typical liberal rags and the people who they snagged with it is unfortunately,... standard. I had hoped that the proven malicous edits from NBC regarding the trajedy of Treyvon Martin's death would have been a call to stop the editing of tapes to present folks a certain way.

If you are going to get a guy to talk about oppressed people, you might want to include the context of why and what is oppressing them from the guy before putting out the snippet about what the guy compares oppression to.

It is very rare in our time for things to be what they seem. And here from the article in the OP I do not understand how that can be read and then have someone lack the basic understanding that leaving off the context was wrong and significant to the scope of what was said, particularly from a significant media outlet. It's not as much of an issue if an individual is doing this kind of crap, but media ought to be held to a much higher standard even if they continually deliver poor results.

Cliffs: Whether Bundy is racist and bigoted or not, the edits were improper from a news source. The question is why leave those parts out and not deliver a lead up of context to the actual quoted part? Obviously the removed parts were significant to what Bundy was getting at.
 
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DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
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What Bundy said was racist, get over it and quit making excuses for him. If his issues are with the government and the BLM, why in the hell did he offer his opinion on blacks and slavery/welfare? What did that have to do with his issues? Absolutely nothing, it's just conservative Tourette's striking again.

The only reason he mentioned it is because he is a ignorant racist bigot. If you are defending what he said then you just might be one too.
 

Cozarkian

Golden Member
Feb 2, 2012
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If his issues are with the government and the BLM, why in the hell did he offer his opinion on blacks and slavery/welfare? What did that have to do with his issues?

That's the whole point. His full quote is relevant to those very issues. Specifically, he was attempting to provide an example of how the government mistreats black people. The NY times edited the article by using selective quotations out of context to make it seem he was randomly spouting out racist comments about black people, rather than attempting to advocate on their behalf against the government.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
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That's the whole point. His full quote is relevant to those very issues. Specifically, he was attempting to provide an example of how the government mistreats black people. The NY times edited the article by using selective quotations out of context to make it seem he was randomly spouting out racist comments about black people, rather than attempting to advocate on their behalf against the government.

No, I have read his full comments and they have absolutely nothing to do with his issues with the government. He is throwing out something that is completely irrelevant to his 'cause'. There was no taking what he said out of context, it was flat out racist. If you don't think what he said was racist then why don't you go ask some of those very people he was describing and get their opinion on it?

Get back to me and let me know how it goes.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
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What Bundy said was racist, get over it and quit making excuses for him. If his issues are with the government and the BLM, why in the hell did he offer his opinion on blacks and slavery/welfare? What did that have to do with his issues? Absolutely nothing, it's just conservative Tourette's striking again.

The only reason he mentioned it is because he is a ignorant racist bigot. If you are defending what he said then you just might be one too.
Um, no. He was attempting to open a new line of attack against the federal government. His problem is that he's just not smart enough to realize that hyperbole included, there is absolutely no way to say blacks were better off under slavery than on welfare without sounding racist. Because there is absolutely no way to think that blacks were better off under slavery than on welfare without being racist. Mr. Bundy may not have any racial animosity, but clearly he has a very low opinion of many if not most blacks.

Clearly the NY Times has its own agenda, but it really doesn't matter. I understand what he was trying to say and why he was trying to say it (which has absolutely nothing to do with helping black people or feeling sympathy for those on welfare), but there ain't enough lipstick in the world to pretty up that pig.

I would say he would have been better off sticking to his original attack, but apparently he's got nothing there either.
 

DrDoug

Diamond Member
Jan 16, 2014
3,580
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Um, no. He was attempting to open a new line of attack against the federal government. His problem is that he's just not smart enough to realize that hyperbole included, there is absolutely no way to say blacks were better off under slavery than on welfare without sounding racist. Because there is absolutely no way to think that blacks were better off under slavery than on welfare without being racist. Mr. Bundy may not have any racial animosity, but clearly he has a very low opinion of many if not most blacks.

Clearly the NY Times has its own agenda, but it really doesn't matter. I understand what he was trying to say and why he was trying to say it (which has absolutely nothing to do with helping black people or feeling sympathy for those on welfare), but there ain't enough lipstick in the world to pretty up that pig.

I would say he would have been better off sticking to his original attack, but apparently he's got nothing there either.

If Bundy was looking to open another avenue of attack on the government then why not welfare recipients in general? Why those of a specific race to the exclusion of others? What makes those welfare recipients stand out from the majority of welfare recipients? Skin color. This had nothing to do with him opening another avenue of attack on the federal government and everything to do with drumming up support from fellow racists for his cause. The response of one of his daughters after the press went after him about how this was all the fault of the press and not her father for flapping his trap was typical of someone trying desperately to deflect from the truth.

Yeah, he's a racist. Maybe not a virulent racist but a racist nonetheless.
 

realibrad

Lifer
Oct 18, 2013
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...Obviously the removed parts were significant to what Bundy was getting at.

Your quote was to long, but I wanted to denote who I was responding to.

The issue is not one of context. My post above yours explains the context of his comments.

For example...

I love my Girlfriend. My Girlfriend is not as smart as me because she is a woman.

Taking the 2nd statement and leaving out the first is not taking something out of context. The sexist part is the 2nd statement. The first statement does not make the 2nd statement any less sexist.

What Bundy did was say, I love the blacks, and I fought for their civil rights. But then follows it up with, but they had better things under slavery. Did he explicitly say that, no. If you place his whole conversation in context, he did.

So going back to my example. If I said, I am smarter than my Girlfriend because I am a man... I did not say she is less smart because she is a woman, but in proper paraphrasing.

The only argument is that it could have been hyperbole. Again, my previous post explains why it was not.

You cannot question slavery over the modern blight of the blacks in society. I agree that the welfare system of today does far more bad than good. But that does not mean its even close to slavery. And saying that black culture such as family life under the institution of slavery was better is sickeningly. The sad part is that Bundy does not realize he is a racist.

The big problem people seem to have is that they think racism has to be intentional.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
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Every single post of yours is paranoid lunacy where you either change the subject or blame a phantom "liberal" enemy. You need mental help.

His mind is beyond help I've come to realize. The only thing that will fix his brain is a bullet. But I would never advocate violence as a solution because I'm not a conservative. Thus I've just had to accept that he will continue to be one of the biggest pieces of shit in this nation and quite likely THE biggest piece of shit on this board.
 

momeNt

Diamond Member
Jan 26, 2011
9,290
352
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I've often wondered if Jews maybe would be better off exterminated than forced to suffer in the 21st century of debt collapse, climate change, and natural disasters.

Did we really save them? Did Hitler really hate them?

Am I doing this right?
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
11,112
1,587
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I've often wondered if Jews maybe would be better off exterminated than forced to suffer in the 21st century of debt collapse, climate change, and natural disasters.

Did we really save them? Did Hitler really hate them?

Am I doing this right?

Yep, spot on. I expect Infowars to be contacting you soon to join their staff.