NY & NYC Liberals go full Socialist. Raise min wage for JUST fast food workers

[Exophase]

Something you guys aren't commenting on is that (at least according to what little is freely available of this article) this law only applies to workers of fast food chain with over 30 locations. Here's another article that isn't behind a subscription login:

http://www.nbcnews.com/business/bus...wners-consider-suing-n-y-over-minimum-n397776

Which says it's limited to 30 in the state, not 30 nationwide, which makes more sense. It also means it'll apply to a smaller set of chains.

It seems like the spirit here is to go after the most profitable chains. The problem is, many of these are franchises. You can own a single McDonalds and barely be making end's meet and be subject to this new requirement that you can't afford. Meanwhile, another person can directly own 20 stores and be rolling in money and not have to pay their workers more. It's hardly fair.

It would make more sense for them to just legislate a wide minimum wage scale that's proportional to the earnings of the company divided by the low wage workers.

 

[Subyman]

I do live in the rust belt of upstate NY...and $15/hr for some pimply faced high school kid to take a drive through order is completely insane for this part of the state.

What about a 20-something single mother?

 

[cyclohexane]

1. They don't have time machines. It's like locking the barn after the horse has escaped.

2. Even a "stable" family will have trouble making ends meet in the area on minimum wage. You think a guy making minimum wage will make a dent in helping multiple people through child support payments? What happens when they lapse?

3. Where do they get the capital to move? Or the skills to have a better job once they do move? Where do you get the idea that they sit on the couch all day and watch tv? (Hint: most of America's poor have jobs)
And the very idea that it was only their own mistakes that brought them to that situation is laughable? It's a cycle - if they don't get taught in decent schools/parents or have the resources to escape, of course they're not going to learn and escape the cycle.

I am in favor of a minimum wage for all workers. That being said, I still disagree with your arguments.

1. They can, however, stop having any MORE kids. That should be obvious.

2. No argument there.

3. Weak. Where did your grandparents get the capital to move during the dust bowl in the 1930s? How about the the great migration to the west coast during the 1970s when manufacturing jobs dried up in the northeast? If a city becomes too expensive to live in, people will figure out a way to leave and go elsewhere.

 

[Subyman]

I am in favor of a minimum wage for all workers. That being said, I still disagree with your arguments.

1. They can, however, stop having any MORE kids. That should be obvious.

2. No argument there.

3. Weak. Where did your grandparents get the capital to move during the dust bowl in the 1930s? How about the the great migration to the west coast during the 1970s when manufacturing jobs dried up in the northeast? If a city becomes too expensive to live in, people will figure out a way to leave and go elsewhere.

3. How many died of dysentery and fever on their journey? Kind of pointless to compare different eras, eh? You can't simply pack the kids up and walk five states over and then hang out on the streets for six weeks trying to look for an unskilled job. Even professional workers have trouble doing this, which is why many job offers in the professional field come with a moving allowance.

 

[JockoJohnson]

What about a 20-something single mother?

How about not playing on emotions? Why does a business have to pay someone more to someone who made poor life choices?

 

[PokerGuy]

I believe in federalism and the right to determine wage standards at the lowest possible level, but this seems like a compliance nightmare waiting to happen.

Agreed 100%. They tried to so specifically carve out a particular set of employees to get this higher minimum wage that it's going to be a legal and regulatory nightmare. I'm sure it will get challenged in court anyway, but it's just a completely asinine way to try and achieve the goal. Regardless of whether you think the goal itself ($15 min wage) is good, this is a stupid way to go about it.

 

[Mxylplyx]

How's a conservative supposed to eat if he knows the person serving him fast food actually earns a livable wage?

 

[Vic]

The funny thing is in Minneapolis we have several fast food joints in my area advertising 15\hr starting.

What's really funny is that those chains are probably doing better than the chains that pay less.
Just how much does low costs and low prices help a company that has lagging sales because fewer and fewer customers want their low quality products?

 

[michal1980]

How's a conservative supposed to eat if he knows the person serving him fast food actually earns a livable wage?

Ahh the magical living wage.

jobs pay what they are worth. Not what you think they should pay.

 

[CZroe]

Teenagers and adults seeking a little extra money who are already getting a living wage from parents, spouses, second jobs, etc, can kiss their next summer/seasonal part-time fast-food job goodbye. Too many people will be snapping those up as their permanent "pay the bills" living-wage job.

It doesn't matter that they aren't raising a family or doing anything that required a living wage from a job that never pretended to offer it. Someone else decided they they wanted to live on it alone with enough to raise a family and got legislation passed as if they are entitled to being able to do so. They shouldn't have to work harder or find a better job. They don't WANT to.

 

[CitizenKain]

Teenagers and adults seeking a little extra money who are already getting a living wage from parents, spouses, second jobs, etc, can kiss their next summer/seasonal part-time fast-food job goodbye. Too many people will be snapping those up as their permanent "pay the bills" living-wage job.

It doesn't matter that they aren't raising a family or doing anything that required a living wage from a job that never pretended to offer it. Someone else decided they they wanted to live on it alone with enough to raise a family and got legislation passed as if they are entitled to being able to do so. They shouldn't have to work harder or find a better job. They don't WANT to.

So an insignificant amount of people are now inconvenienced while a large number of people can potentially see their life improve. Truly what a terrible thing.
Its neat when a clueless person like yourself gets to be the arbiter of what jobs people are allowed to work at and have a family. Also you must have been spoiled as a child and have likely never worked hard in your life if you think people working fast food are not working hard. Good thing mommy and daddy did all the work and you can just coast huh?

 

[ctbaars]

They should have made it $15 statewide for all workers. I think there may be politicking going on here. It sounds better to the advocates.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/nyregion/new-york-minimum-wage-fast-food-workers.html
NY is behind in the movement. I'm not so sure why Governor Cuomo say he is leading the nation, really as he declares.

 

[Vic]

Ahh the magical living wage.

jobs pay what they are worth. Not what you think they should pay.

Worth has nothing to do with it. Jobs pay what the employer and the employee are able to negotiate for.
The minimum wage exists solely because some employers take advantage of employees in poor negotiating positions.

 

[CZroe]

So an insignificant amount of people are now inconvenienced while a large number of people can potentially see their life improve. Truly what a terrible thing.
Its neat when a clueless person like yourself gets to be the arbiter of what jobs people are allowed to work at and have a family. Also you must have been spoiled as a child and have likely never worked hard in your life if you think people working fast food are not working hard. Good thing mommy and daddy did all the work and you can just coast huh?

"Insignificant?" Imagine if this was nation-wide like the protesters want.

The "insignificant" people I described are exactly who minimum wage fast-food jobs are for. I can add double-retirees who just want to stay busy to the list of people for whom minimum wage is enough. I can add a fresh out of college kid who was told that he/she has to work if he/she is going to stay with his/her parents out of college. Need I go on?

You aren't supposed to be trying to raise a family at minimum wage. A paper route isn't supposed to pay "a living wage" to a paperboy, no matter how many bread winners take the job and demand it while depriving the worker it was appropriate for.

They based their entire argument on an expectation that was wrong from the very start: the expectation that a minimum-wage job is supposed to pay a living wage. It isn't. It was never supposed to.

 

[mizzou]

will the quality of service stay the same?

 

[Subyman]

How about not playing on emotions? Why does a business have to pay someone more to someone who made poor life choices?

That was my point lol. He said pimply face high schooler to demean those that are employed at fast food restaurants. So I turned it around.

 

[Drako]

This is just going to cause the faster proliferation of the food robots.

 

[Murloc]

They should have made it $15 statewide for all workers. I think there may be politicking going on here. It sounds better to the advocates.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/23/nyregion/new-york-minimum-wage-fast-food-workers.html
NY is behind in the movement. I'm not so sure why Governor Cuomo say he is leading the nation, really as he declares.

well it does look weird. Maybe by implementing it only against the corporate welfare boogeyman it will be able to go through the legislative.

A general minimum wage would be more difficult to swallow for the locally strong businesses.

"Insignificant?" Imagine if this was nation-wide like the protesters want.

The "insignificant" people I described are exactly who minimum wage fast-food jobs are for. I can add double-retirees who just want to stay busy to the list of people for whom minimum wage is enough. I can add a fresh out of college kid who was told that he/she has to work if he/she is going to stay with his/her parents out of college. Need I go on?

You aren't supposed to be trying to raise a family at minimum wage. A paper route isn't supposed to pay "a living wage" to a paperboy, no matter how many bread winners take the job and demand it while depriving the worker it was appropriate for.

They based their entire argument on an expectation that was wrong from the very start: the expectation that a minimum-wage job is supposed to pay a living wage. It isn't. It was never supposed to.

in many countries this philosophy doesn't apply, yet you can still see full time students working in supermarkets during the week-end shifts or working as baristas and stuff.
There aren't any paper boys or gas station attendants or walmart baggers/greeters though, and supermarkets/gas station shops are closed at night. That's the consequence of minimum wage, certain services (such as having your stuff bagged) cannot be accessed by the middle class anymore because there isn't a proletarian class that is much worse off than them.

 

[ivwshane]

Agreed 100%. They tried to so specifically carve out a particular set of employees to get this higher minimum wage that it's going to be a legal and regulatory nightmare. I'm sure it will get challenged in court anyway, but it's just a completely asinine way to try and achieve the goal. Regardless of whether you think the goal itself ($15 min wage) is good, this is a stupid way to go about it.

I agree with both of you. This seems like government purposely handicapping certain businesses in a particular industry. At a minimum this should have been a blanket raise across the industry and at best it should have been raised for all minimum wage workers.

I'm guessing this will go to court as an undue burden.

 

[werepossum]

Garbage men often make considerably more than $15 an hour, especially in New York.

The problem with this proposal is that it ignores regional differences. Setting a $15 minimum in NYC is probably fine, but a $15 minimum in some rust belt town upstate? Probably not so fine.

This. One size does not fit all.

 

[Jaskalas]

Ahh the magical living wage.

jobs pay what they are worth. Not what you think they should pay.

Are we not capable of setting the cost of labor?
There is a minimum that employees need to survive. Currently, much of it is redistributed through taxation and welfare.

 

[werepossum]

Worth has nothing to do with it. Jobs pay what the employer and the employee are able to negotiate for.
The minimum wage exists solely because some employers take advantage of employees in poor negotiating positions.

Your first statement actually agrees with him - the worth of a job is what an employer is willing to pay and an employee is willing to accept. Your second statement totally nullifies your first, as poor negotiating positions are relative and common to both sides of the equation. Would you consider a maximum wage to protect employers who wish to hire surgeons or lead burners? Their relative scarcity certainly puts the employer in a poor negotiating position.

 

[CZroe]

well it does look weird. Maybe by implementing it only against the corporate welfare boogeyman it will be able to go through the legislative.



A general minimum wage would be more difficult to swallow for the locally strong businesses.





in many countries this philosophy doesn't apply, yet you can still see full time students working in supermarkets during the week-end shifts or working as baristas and stuff.

There aren't any paper boys or gas station attendants or walmart baggers/greeters though, and supermarkets/gas station shops are closed at night. That's the consequence of minimum wage, certain services (such as having your stuff bagged) cannot be accessed by the middle class anymore because there isn't a proletarian class that is much worse off than them.

Do they have a huge influx of adults seeking full time living wages to compete with them for those jobs? The problem here is that there really are people who will not want more once they have enough, and those people will continue to occupy these positions that were never meant for them.

The minimum wage only went up there for fast food workers. When all of the "living wage" folks take these jobs for the long term, there will not be as many Walmart greeter or grocery-bagger positions to sustain the number of students/kids, part-time second-income spouses, and retirees. Teen employment will go down. Retiree employment will go down. Fewer wives or husbands who aren't the primary income will seek extra spending money with a part time minimum wage job.

Now, imagine if the actual minimum wage went up to $15. A warehouse worker who makes $12.50 at a job that takes more effort and skill now makes $15. Sounds great for him, until he realizes that much easier positions with less responsibility pay the same. There is no incentive to work a more difficult job if the worker can just get a job at McDonald's or a store clerk. Now there are no gas station or Wal-mart greeter or paperboy jobs left for the kids and retirees and 2nd income spouses. The bread winners moved up into their cushy positions. No reason not to.

 

[Moonbeam]

Your first statement actually agrees with him - the worth of a job is what an employer is willing to pay and an employee is willing to accept. Your second statement totally nullifies your first, as poor negotiating positions are relative and common to both sides of the equation. Would you consider a maximum wage to protect employers who wish to hire surgeons or lead burners? Their relative scarcity certainly puts the employer in a poor negotiating position.

Your defective brain puts you in a poor negotiating position to argue with Vic but it would make you a great contender for Colossally Stupid Person of the Year. But then who am I to criticize somebody with a gift that could turn bull shit into mash potatoes and eat a whole bowl.

 

[bozack]

Garbage men often make considerably more than $15 an hour, especially in New York.

The problem with this proposal is that it ignores regional differences. Setting a $15 minimum in NYC is probably fine, but a $15 minimum in some rust belt town upstate? Probably not so fine.

Garbage workers have just been eliminated in my town, now it is all one guy in an automated truck, saved the town 150K/year and got rid of some jobs.

figure the same will happen in the fast food industry, but only after they raise the prices to cover the wage increase, either that or like others said the employees will ask for reduced hours so they can keep collecting their subsidies.