Question NVMe on PCIe v1

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,365
1,118
106
I looked at that and a bunch of different cards to expand M2 on Intel.

Seeing your signature on a full browser makes it even less possible as most requirements will need something significantly more recent.

PCIe-Bandwidth.png


I would keep it cheap and try something like this instead.

If you want to run more than a single drive then there are other options that have a PLX bridge on them that allow more than one drive to talk to the system but, you only get the speed of a single drive on most of them topping out at 3.5GB/s. Some cards though with PLX hit higher speeds up to 10GB/s

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CVGZZCS - this will do 3x4 speeds
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07HYZY7P2 - this goes up to 6.5GB/s
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D3N4WS4 - up to 3x8 / 4 drives
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B083GLR3WL - 6.5GB/s
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0847N8B5B - 6.5GB/s

At some point it makes more sense to use AMD based systems to use the cheaper bifurcation cards that don't need the PLX chips.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09F31ZXKQ 4- drives for ~$40

The problem is always economics. You have a working system and a new build is going to be ~$1000 for Intel and maybe $1500 for an AMD based system. If you don't have extensive needs for 3+ drives then Intel makes more sense but, if you want to expand cheaper then AMD makes more sense.
 
  • Like
Reactions: igor_kavinski

pcm81

Senior member
Mar 11, 2011
581
9
81
Thank you for extensive reply and research.
Looks like my mobo PCIe is actually version 2, not 1 as i thought, so 4x would be 2GBps. I am currently running from SanDisk Ultra Plus 256GB SATA 6.0GB/s 2.5-Inch; so anything modern will be an upgrade.

I might replace the system in couple of years with the new build. The dam thing is refusing to die!!! and since i run linux and play minecraft, it kinda is not an issue.
 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,365
1,118
106
Yeah, tech lasts a long time when you don't punish it. I keep within a couple generations of the latest though just to not lose money on the purchases when upgrading. Depreciation can be a beast when it comes to tech.

V2 is better but still 3 versions behind what's out now. V3 would be what most are running unless they've upgrade in the last 2 years. Laptops right now only do V4 and only a handful of MOBO's do V5 M2 slots.

AFAIK nothing has a native V6 yet

Everything is kind of in limbo though when it comes to Gen5 since Intel doesn't natively support it even in RPL 13th gen but, you can get slto cards to reap the speed benefits but, you're wasting 12 lanes in the process. The MOBO that supports it natively is the ASRock Z690 Velocita and I haven't come across any others that do.

AMD on the other hand seems to be supporting Gen5 with X670

It's a mess right now for pairing up products at the same speeds. Even with AMD supporting it the M2 slot cuts the X16 down to X8 to share bandwidth.
 

pcm81

Senior member
Mar 11, 2011
581
9
81
Yeah, my plan was to wait until intel gets 2nm process figured out and then look at upgrades from intel or AMD. The $4K i spent on my rig in 2011 definitely paid themselves off. Kind of funny but at the moment the computer i built for my mom and the laptop i got her are way more powerful than mine; and that is the way i like it, because i get less tech support calls LOL.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,365
1,118
106
Support calls.... There's a reason I do networking and PC support.

There's a ton of crap coming up. Most of which the major changes come in 2024 for Intel and this month AMD. It's a bit of a mixed bag as things transition though. Adopting some tech and leaving others behind for the moment.

ADL isn't that pricey at this point and you could build a foundation system for about $1k and then add whatever GPU you want above that.

I picked up a barebones laptop for $1300 with a 3060 inside and added ram/WiFi/4k120 screen to it for an all in under $2k for what a completed system would run twice that. Mostly because they would pair it with a 3090 due to the panel resolution.
 

Shmee

Memory & Storage, Graphics Cards Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 13, 2008
7,382
2,419
146
Hello, any PCIe x4 to m.2 adapter card will be limited to x4 gen 2, as you pointed out. I believe the Rampage III is an X58 board? Those can be great boards, but I believe they all lack UEFI support. AFAIK, most NVMe drives require UEFI support to boot, assuming you want to use this as a boot drive. It may depend on what OS you are using as well. I see you mention you run Linux, but support may vary depending on how recent your kernel is. All this is something to keep in mind.

So if you want to get an NVMe m.2 drive with a cheaper PCIe x4 gen 3 adapter, that would be fine IMO. But I might be doing some additional research on how your board does with your current Linux OS when trying to boot from an NVMe. Though you could also just use it as a storage drive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Insert_Nickname

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,365
1,118
106
most NVMe drives require UEFI support to boot
I was running my NVME in MBR prior to switching to ADL. They work fine in either mode but, newer CPU's require GPT / UEFI to work. There's supposed to be CSL for MBR but, I couldn't get it to work and converted the existing system to GPT with a few painless commands on Linux. Of course I also had to shift the partition to the right and add a 50MB EFI partition for it to boot along with creating the EFI files needed by running another command.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: igor_kavinski

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,691
136
I have an old ASUS Rampage III Formula mobo with avaiable 16x PCIe slot. I believe it is still version 1. I am planning to install: ASUS Hyper M.2 X16 PCIe 4.0 X4 Expansion Card with Kingston NV1 2TB M.2 2280 NVMe PCIe Internal SSD. My question is: is this thing going to run at speed of 4 PCIe v1 lanes or at 16x PCIe v1 lanes? In other words, does the card distribute data across 16 lanes or just map 4 lanes to a drive?

Is there a particular reason for using such an old X58 board? You may want to look at getting something newer, as even a basic APU will blow anything Nehalem/Westmere-based out of the water.

Otherwise, Shmee is right on the money.
 

pcm81

Senior member
Mar 11, 2011
581
9
81
Is there a particular reason for using such an old X58 board? You may want to look at getting something newer, as even a basic APU will blow anything Nehalem/Westmere-based out of the water.

Otherwise, Shmee is right on the money.
The reason for using it is because it hasn't died yet.
I have a 12 bay case with water cooling on cpu and both radion 6990s. removable drive bays etc; basically the whole sha-bang. It was a $4K build back in 2011; so at this point i am just curious to see how long it runs. I feel like it deserved/earned that much respect... lol. I am also running linux mint and the most intense thing i do is play minecraft. LOL When i build a new system it will probably be another 12 bay water cooled monster with top of the line stuffs.
 

pcm81

Senior member
Mar 11, 2011
581
9
81
Hello, any PCIe x4 to m.2 adapter card will be limited to x4 gen 2, as you pointed out. I believe the Rampage III is an X58 board? Those can be great boards, but I believe they all lack UEFI support. AFAIK, most NVMe drives require UEFI support to boot, assuming you want to use this as a boot drive. It may depend on what OS you are using as well. I see you mention you run Linux, but support may vary depending on how recent your kernel is. All this is something to keep in mind.

So if you want to get an NVMe m.2 drive with a cheaper PCIe x4 gen 3 adapter, that would be fine IMO. But I might be doing some additional research on how your board does with your current Linux OS when trying to boot from an NVMe. Though you could also just use it as a storage drive.
My current plan is to put linux mint onto PCIe adapted MVNe drive and stick GRUB onto some other, bootable, drive.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,691
136
The reason for using it is because it hasn't died yet.
I have a 12 bay case with water cooling on cpu and both radion 6990s. removable drive bays etc; basically the whole sha-bang. It was a $4K build back in 2011; so at this point i am just curious to see how long it runs. I feel like it deserved/earned that much respect... lol. I am also running linux mint and the most intense thing i do is play minecraft. LOL When i build a new system it will probably be another 12 bay water cooled monster with top of the line stuffs.

X58 really is an indestructible platform. My 2009 Nehalem system still runs just fine, I just won't turn it on with current electricity pricing here. My current Ryzen 5700X/Radeon 6600XT system uses as much power full-on gaming then it does idle.

It has become rather pricey. Think $0.93 per KWh.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
4,971
1,691
136
Considering I'm at $0.08/kWh it's over 10X and would make my bill be ~$1000/mo which is most people's mortgage / rent.

We have gone from 0.43DKK last spring to this. So it's almost exactly an order of magnitude. If you happen to have a natural gas boiler, this winter can potentially cost you a ~100.000DKK (~$13.500). Many simply cannot afford that long term. Which kind of lead to;

At this point, you should be looking into ways to generate your own power. I don't think prices are coming down, unless your bureaucrats suddenly decide to feel the public's pain.

My heatpump has started printing money, that's for sure. Anyway, I expect the entire energy system will collapse some time during winter. So I'll see where things are going the next 6 months and take it form there.

Thank </deity> my average electricity use is -low enough- that I can -afford- to not really care. There are plenty of people who are up the proverbial creek without a paddle. Thankfully, I've always been slightly obsessed with efficiency.
 
  • Like
Reactions: igor_kavinski

pcm81

Senior member
Mar 11, 2011
581
9
81
Just an update: As predicted bios does not see the AUSUS HYPER M.2 or the 2TB drive in it. However linux sees it and it benchmarks at 503MBps write and 1.5GBps read and 0.02msec access time.
Next step is to install mint 21 on it and see if GRUB, loaded from a different drive, can see it.
 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,365
1,118
106
503MBps write and 1.5GBps read
Up to 2,100MB/s Read, 1,700MB/s Write

You should be seeing equal speeds r/w not so lopsided. Something's not quite right here. I would try another adapter card or at least double check on another slot / reseat the card and M2.
 

pcm81

Senior member
Mar 11, 2011
581
9
81
Up to 2,100MB/s Read, 1,700MB/s Write

You should be seeing equal speeds r/w not so lopsided. Something's not quite right here. I would try another adapter card or at least double check on another slot / reseat the card and M2.
Yeah i'll look into that in a bit. At the moment still fighting with GRUB. It does not see the drive or new install by default, but it does detect it using nativedisk. Although after using nativdisk if i use ls on that drive i get "pata passthrough failed" response. Booting into previous linux 19 install i can see the drive and the new install of linux 21 on it, just cant make GRUB load it.
 

Tech Junky

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2022
3,365
1,118
106
Try cloning 19 to the new drive and then pop out the existing drive and see what it does and if it works you just run the update / upgrade and you're done. The other option might be a small SSD as your grub drive. Or install 21 to a USB to grub from and use the NVME for storage.

Part of the issue is the adapter and the other part is the old system. Another option would be a SATA adapter / sled for the drive but, then you're capped on speed to 600MB/s.

I've got a SanDisk extreme pro though that pushes 400MB/s that shows up as a SSD and not a normal USB. Works as a good standby bootable Windows drive. There's a thousand ways to do this sort of thing. Just have to figure something out which option works best.
 

pcm81

Senior member
Mar 11, 2011
581
9
81
Try cloning 19 to the new drive and then pop out the existing drive and see what it does and if it works you just run the update / upgrade and you're done. The other option might be a small SSD as your grub drive. Or install 21 to a USB to grub from and use the NVME for storage.

Part of the issue is the adapter and the other part is the old system. Another option would be a SATA adapter / sled for the drive but, then you're capped on speed to 600MB/s.

I've got a SanDisk extreme pro though that pushes 400MB/s that shows up as a SSD and not a normal USB. Works as a good standby bootable Windows drive. There's a thousand ways to do this sort of thing. Just have to figure something out which option works best.
My GRUB is actually installed on another drive than my system drive, so i am effectively doing your usb suggerstion, i have 6 drives counting the new nvme...linux 19 on one, boot loader and old files on 2nd new nvme is 3rd and porn on the rest.