nVidia Trying to Fool People?

GTaudiophile

Lifer
Oct 24, 2000
29,767
33
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Hellbinder over at Rage3D Forums has this to say:

In a nut shell. Nvidia has changed the names of their AF modes to match ATi's names. In their new drivers call Ballanced AF *Quality* and Aggressive AF *Performance*. Thus intentionally misleading averyone as to what AF on the Nv30 is actually doing. Undoubtedly this will skew Benchmark results from this day forward. If NV30 is not set to *application* it does not properly use Trilinear, and there are other subtle differences that have a big affect on performance.

Thus imo Nvidia has now crossed the line Further than any stupid Quak thing ever did. You will especially see this in the upcomming 9600pro comparrisons to the 5600/5200. Digit life and Hardocp have both shown the detailed results of what Nvidias AF modes offer. While there are clearly differences in each IHV's approach to AF. Clearly for what each final product offers to the user to the naked eye ballanced is not comparable to Ati's Quality.

This is DIRECTLY related to ATi products, and the affect the upcomming reviews will have on benchmark results. As it seems that all results will be Ati's Quality mode on the 9600pro unfairly compared to Nvidias ballanced mode which has now been renamed to *Quality* in the drivers intentionally and deceptively by Nvidia. It seems that they were paying attention to the MaxPC thread and H articles regarding the confusion about AF settings. Instead of Fixing their AF, they have chosen to enable all the MaxPC's of the world, and all reviewers who just go by what Nvidia tells them to do. From now on reviews will say "Quality" AF Vs "Quality" AF. Making it look like a completely fair comparrison.. when in reality nothing could be further from the truth. Just be aware of how far that is going to Skew Benchmark results especially in the higher resolutions.


He points to this Beyond3D thread as a reference.

Edit: How long until Chizow...
 

Sid59

Lifer
Sep 2, 2002
11,879
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interesting .. would be nice to see this thread expand with varying view points. thanks for the link.
 

BentValve

Diamond Member
Dec 26, 2001
4,190
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I would not rely upon what some member of Rage3D has to say. I am not saying he or she is wrong because I do not know
but its not too smart to take one persons word as truth.
 

fyleow

Platinum Member
Jan 18, 2002
2,915
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I don't see a real problem with it. Would you be bothered if ATI renamed Hyper Z III to Lightning Fast Memory Architecture? It's just names, they don't really matter. Besides it cuts down on confusion.

It's probably better for the less informed joe sixpack. "No! My video card is better than yours, it has QUALITY anti aliasing" "No, aggresive is OBVIOUSLY better than quallity"
 

First

Lifer
Jun 3, 2002
10,518
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As long as reviewers make sure to compare NVIDIA's application, performance, and quality modes modes versus ATI's performance and quality modes in the same AA + AF scenarios, I don't see what the problem is. HardOCP's 5200/5600 review is an excellent example of what you should see in a full-fledged IQ/FPS comparison.
 

DaveSimmons

Elite Member
Aug 12, 2001
40,730
670
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This does look like an attempt to intentionally mislead uneducated buyers, and "tech reviewers" for less sophisticated sites like Gamespot.

nVidia's PR will probably soon be turning out ads with review clippings that compare the speed of their "quality" mode against ATI's.



<--happy with my GeForce3, and the GeForce2 before it
 

Shalmanese

Platinum Member
Sep 29, 2000
2,157
0
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*shrug*. Back in the Geforce/Radeon days, everyone was saying Gof rot eh GeForce if you want performance and go for the Radeon if you want 2d quality. Its the same as they will now.
 

FishTankX

Platinum Member
Oct 6, 2001
2,738
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Yeah. They'll say get the Geforce for performance. Get the Radeon for 3d and 2d quality. I think the modern argument goes..

Get the 9700 for performance/quality

Get the Geforce FX for better drivers and the classic Nvidia compatibility.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,402
8,574
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Originally posted by: FishTankX
Yeah. They'll say get the Geforce for performance. Get the Radeon for 3d and 2d quality. I think the modern argument goes..

Get the 9700 for performance/quality

Get the Geforce FX for better drivers and the classic Nvidia compatibility.

nvidia + compatibility + classic = 3 word i never thought i'd ever hear in one sentence.

anyway, i think the ati's usually toss the nvidia's around with no AA or AF on, which with nvidia's crappy implementation you might as well not even use it.
 

Agent004

Senior member
Mar 22, 2001
492
0
0
What's new?

This is the same thing nVidia has been doing since the early days of detonators 2 and onward. Special optimisations (read: turning off/lower details) for more 3dmarks and other popular games and benchmarks (hence I don't get the idea why everyone made a big deal out of ATI's quack issue, it's not like nVidia wasn't doing the same for an even longer period)

The fact nVidia comes to this again don't surprise me at all.
 

Mem

Lifer
Apr 23, 2000
21,476
13
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What's new?

To be honest I don`t really care,as long as the drivers are solid and my games run fine I`m one happy gamer which`s the main reason why I use my video card for,not for benchmarks or 3Dmark results etc ;).

:)
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
9,140
67
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As long as reviewers make sure to compare NVIDIA's application, performance, and quality modes modes versus ATI's performance and quality modes in the same AA + AF scenarios, I don't see what the problem is.

Does that mean that we can expect that from AnandTech in the future? Talking about LOD bias is a very nice addition to a review. Saying that a comparison of LOD bias is somehow about anisotropic filtering is dumbfounding.
 

arcenite

Lifer
Dec 9, 2001
10,660
7
81
No I think it goes more like...

Get a 9700 Pro if you want performance/quality

Get a GeforceFX if your lawn has alot of leaves on it ^^

Bill
 

AtomicDude512

Golden Member
Feb 10, 2003
1,067
0
0
Having IBM fab chips will help a lot. With IBM they can go all the way to .09 fabbing. I bet IBM's will OC better also. :)