Nvidia to sell their own branded Geforce cards

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dzoner

Banned
Feb 21, 2010
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Imho, NV's situation is not dire (what it lost in low-margin chipsets it can gain back and more in mobile/GPGPU in the long run; it also has a deathgrip on the professional graphics market; and though Fermi might not be making much money, it's competitive with ATI's offering and GF104 is doing a good job of holding the fort w/r/t market share). But NV is a troubled company, I agree. That's in part because NV's CEO is an arrogant jerk who seems to enjoy burning bridges, whether it's by calling out INTC publicly ("can of whoop ass" and intelsinsides.com, and who knows what he said privately before then), severing XFX from its AIB stable, or acting rather ambivalently during bumpgate (which contributed to NV losing contracts with Apple).

Going into direct competition with your own AIBs is a pure short term profit desperation move. There's no other way to spin it. Probably has to do with the numbers that are projected to appear on a not distant quarterly report without that move.

Nvidia in it's present form is in a death spiral.
 

dzoner

Banned
Feb 21, 2010
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Your statement on margins are all guesses and assumptions. We DON'T know what Nvidia's margins are and we don't know what they pay per wafer from TSMC. What we do know is that they are TSMC's number 1 preferred customer, so while they are at a disadvantage with larger dies for the performance compared to ATI, they may be getting better pricing from TSMC to make up for it.

"We' know for a dead certainty Nvidia's margins are far smaller than AMDs.

Everything Nvidia has does in the consumer GPU market lately reeks of desperation and competing directly with their AIBs reeks the hardest.
 

n0x1ous

Platinum Member
Sep 9, 2010
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"We' know for a dead certainty Nvidia's margins are far smaller than AMDs.

How do you know this for a fact? Do you work for AMD?

Im not saying that I know for sure that they aren't smaller, all I am saying is there is no way to know this info unless one works for either company.
 

SickBeast

Lifer
Jul 21, 2000
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How do you know this for a fact? Do you work for AMD?
NV's die sizes are considerably larger than AMD's, to the point that even if the manufacturer cuts them a deal, it probably won't make up the difference. At the end of the day, if the manufacturer isn't making enough money on NV GPUs, they'll simply go with AMD exclusively.
 

Will Robinson

Golden Member
Dec 19, 2009
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It's not NVDA that ATI/AMD supporters want to see go out of business.
After all, they make good video cards and their technology is usually top notch.

It's their fanboys and focus groups that need to go out of business.:biggrin:
 

n0x1ous

Platinum Member
Sep 9, 2010
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NV's die sizes are considerably larger than AMD's, to the point that even if the manufacturer cuts them a deal, it probably won't make up the difference. At the end of the day, if the manufacturer isn't making enough money on NV GPUs, they'll simply go with AMD exclusively.

whether or not a manufacturer deal makes up the difference, a good amount would be offset by massive profits per unit of Quadro (and Tesla too, but they probably don't sell too many of those yet)
 

n0x1ous

Platinum Member
Sep 9, 2010
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It's not NVDA that ATI/AMD supporters want to see go out of business.
After all, they make good video cards and their technology is usually top notch.

It's their fanboys and focus groups that need to go out of business.:biggrin:

but if that happened, who would the ATI fanboy's have to argue with? :p
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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There are other areas where AMD could make money though, such as SOC's for things like the iPhone.

No, actually, they can't. In all their infinite stupidity on business fronts, AMD sold off their UP division to Qualcom- you might have heard of it- Snapdragon. Yeah, the SoC that was dominating the UP market for a decent run. The massive sum of money they got for this market dominating technology? $65 million. Yep, a rounding error. This wasn't just the designs, they sold the entire division, IP- staffing- all gone. Fastest growing market by orders of magnitude- decisive technological edge- given up for a rounding error on their books. Choices like this are why nVidia is sitting on more cash right now then AMD has ever had in positive cash flow in their existance.
 
May 13, 2009
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No, actually, they can't. In all their infinite stupidity on business fronts, AMD sold off their UP division to Qualcom- you might have heard of it- Snapdragon. Yeah, the SoC that was dominating the UP market for a decent run. The massive sum of money they got for this market dominating technology? $65 million. Yep, a rounding error. This wasn't just the designs, they sold the entire division, IP- staffing- all gone. Fastest growing market by orders of magnitude- decisive technological edge- given up for a rounding error on their books. Choices like this are why nVidia is sitting on more cash right now then AMD has ever had in positive cash flow in their existance.

It's hard to take anything you say seriously. I knew before I read your post it would be some anti AMD/pro nvidia garbage. You don't disappoint.

Personal Attacks are not acceptable.

Moderator Idontcare
 
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Davidh373

Platinum Member
Jun 20, 2009
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I don't think this is anything new, really. Most if not all OEM branded video cards from high end DELL/HP (Alienware/Voodoo) systems have nvidia reference cards without any other stickers.

You can buy these on eBay from used systems.

We'll see how much retail markup is included in the Best Buy price. It will probably scare me away.

to address this earlier comment nenforcer, yeah, best buy has about a 30-40% markup, it would be enough to scare me away!!!
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
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"Best Buy" has got to be one of the most ironic names in retail.

Depends... You can get lucky sometimes.

They were running a pretty good sale on Visiontek cards the week that AMD launched the 4-series early, so a brand new Visiontek HD 4850 ended going for $149.99 (MSRP was $199.99).

Best Buy attempted to get into the DIY market by selling a full tower Lian Li built case re-branded as a Rocketfish that didn't end up selling all that great to the average Best Buy customer. So, they sold off the remaining stock for dirt cheap. I had to drive about 65 miles out of the way, but I picked one up for $47. It's top notch Lian Li quality and would be a good deal at $85-100, but it's a total steal for $47. The Lian Li casters and optical drive bezels I added to it cost me more than the case itself.
 

3DVagabond

Lifer
Aug 10, 2009
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The other question I'm asking myself is "who" is building the cards for Nvidia?

This may just be a brand thing and literally nothing more. An AIB may actually be under contract to build/package/distribute/etc these things for Nvidia but because of the target audience the AIB or Best Buy wants them branded no more distinctly than the simple Nvidia branding we see going on here.

We are all assuming this "cuts out" a middleman, maybe it does no such thing. I'd be interested to know who is handling the customer service, warranty, and rma processes. I doubt Nvidia is investing money into building that infrastructure in-house when they have AIB's that already have capable facilities.


[H]ardOCP is reporting that nVidia confirmed to them that Foxconn manufactures the cards. It says on the box "made by nVidia", but apparently it's not an accurate statement.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
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[H]ardOCP is reporting that nVidia confirmed to them that Foxconn manufactures the cards. It says on the box "made by nVidia", but apparently it's not an accurate statement.

Interesting. The same Foxconn that makes Apple's gear I presume?
 

BenSkywalker

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
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I knew before I read your post it would be some anti AMD/pro nvidia garbage.

I apologize, explain to us how it was a good idea for AMD to sell of their ultra portable division to Qualcomm for $65 million dollars, please. I have yet to hear anything resembling logic on this choice-

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9126351/AMD_sells_handheld_chip_unit_to_Qualcomm

http://www.qualcomm.com/products_services/chipsets/snapdragon.html

AMD had very good technology, an area they could clearly be giving nV a serious run for its money in for the forseeable future, an area that is exploding in popularity far beyond the entire PC market in unit share. Please explain how selling off this market for $65 million was a good idea.

I can only assume you must be an insanely rabid nVidia loyalist to applaud such a move by AMD- the only thing it does is hurt them long term in a rather profound manner.
 

WelshBloke

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
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I apologize, explain to us how it was a good idea for AMD to sell of their ultra portable division to Qualcomm for $65 million dollars, please. I have yet to hear anything resembling logic on this choice-

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9126351/AMD_sells_handheld_chip_unit_to_Qualcomm

http://www.qualcomm.com/products_services/chipsets/snapdragon.html

AMD had very good technology, an area they could clearly be giving nV a serious run for its money in for the forseeable future, an area that is exploding in popularity far beyond the entire PC market in unit share. Please explain how selling off this market for $65 million was a good idea.

I can only assume you must be an insanely rabid nVidia loyalist to applaud such a move by AMD- the only thing it does is hurt them long term in a rather profound manner.

To be fair there Nvidia are not doing that well in the mobile sector, what's Tegra in at the moment? Zune?
And AMD have that CPU thing going on as well so its not as if they arnt diversified.

Better for Qualcomm to make something with that IP than AMD to do nothing with it.
 

Idontcare

Elite Member
Oct 10, 1999
21,110
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I apologize, explain to us how it was a good idea for AMD to sell of their ultra portable division to Qualcomm for $65 million dollars, please. I have yet to hear anything resembling logic on this choice-

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9126351/AMD_sells_handheld_chip_unit_to_Qualcomm

http://www.qualcomm.com/products_services/chipsets/snapdragon.html

AMD had very good technology, an area they could clearly be giving nV a serious run for its money in for the foreseeable future, an area that is exploding in popularity far beyond the entire PC market in unit share. Please explain how selling off this market for $65 million was a good idea.

I can only assume you must be an insanely rabid nVidia loyalist to applaud such a move by AMD- the only thing it does is hurt them long term in a rather profound manner.

My understanding of this transaction at the time was that it was more a management decision made out of concerns over cash-on-hand and reducing the bottom-line cost structure than one of maintaining an investment for sake of its long-term potential.

I never knew/spoke with any of the employees directly involved in the deal but the AMD one's who were not have all spoken the same way about it - it was a decision out of necessity for the perceived survival of AMD. No less different than selling the fabs.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
21,938
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My understanding of this transaction at the time was that it was more a management decision made out of concerns over cash-on-hand and reducing the bottom-line cost structure than one of maintaining an investment for sake of its long-term potential.

I never knew/spoke with any of the employees directly involved in the deal but the AMD one's who were not have all spoken the same way about it - it was a decision out of necessity for the perceived survival of AMD. No less different than selling the fabs.

And, essentially, irrelevant to the entire thread.

I wonder if this will impact non-US operations.
I think in Europe partners who sell to major chains are people like PNY and Sparkle, so I would assume it's just being kept to BB and not spreading elsewhere in the world, although there are some BFG cards being sold by one major electronics retailer (a UK equiv. of Best Buy).
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
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[H]ardOCP is reporting that nVidia confirmed to them that Foxconn manufactures the cards. It says on the box "made by nVidia", but apparently it's not an accurate statement.

Of course it's not accurate. We all know TSMC makes the chips and NVIDIA doesn't have any factories. Then again, we all called them "built by ATI" when ATI sold ATI branded cards actually built by Sapphire. I'm actually guessing that even using the word "built" for video cards is probably a not entirely correct. I imagine that "assembled" is most likely more accurate.

That being said, there is still the fact that NVIDIA designed the chip and the PCB. Even though they are outsourcing the manufacturing of the cards to a third party, they still dictate the specs. It is well known that Apple outsources iPhones and other products to Foxconn, does this make the iPhone a Foxconn phone...? Of course not.

The difference between a Foxconn card and a NVIDIA branded card is that the Foxconn card is built to Foxconn's specs (as much as this is allowed by NVIDIA), and the NVIDIA card is built to NVIDIA's specs. This is probably not such of an issue with video cards because they end up being pretty close anyway, but pop open an Apple laptop and then compare the quality and design to something like a Foxconn Bloodrage motherboard. The differences in materials used and overall design is significant. The point is that Foxconn will build NVIDIA whatever quality card NVIDIA pays them to build, just like they do for all their customers.

I think this venture is really going to boil down to support and warranty, and NVIDIA is going to be hard pressed to compete with EVGA in that area.