Nvidia`s upcoming Tegra 5 playing Battlefield 3.

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Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
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Its PS3 Arkadrel. Not PS4. :p

I think it depends on how much die space it will be on Tegra 5.

Tegra 4 have doubled from 40mm to 80mm. If Tegra 5 becomes over 100mm Nvidia could pack in a lot of power in that space with Kepler.

Take GT 640M for example. 118mm^2. 460Gflops. PS3 GPU: Around 200Gflops. Shouldn`t be impossible to build a chip that is that capable in the upcoming years.
 
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AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
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I highly doubt a tablet chip, even 2 generations from now (tegra4->5) will be able to beat a PS4's performance.

Nvidia said this:
“The PS3 and Xbox 360 are barely more powerful than mobile devices,” Tamasi told Bit-Tech. “The next click of mobile phones will outperform [them].”
Tegra5 will out perform an 9 year old piece of hardware, oh wow Nvidia very impressive. :sneaky:
 

Arkadrel

Diamond Member
Oct 19, 2010
3,681
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Its PS3 Arkadrel. Not PS4. :p

I think it depends on how much die space it will be on Tegra 5.

Tegra 4 have doubled from 40mm to 80mm. If Tegra 5 becomes over 100mm Nvidia could pack in a lot of power in that space with Kepler.

Take GT 640M for example. 118mm^2. 460Gflops. PS3 GPU: Around 200Gflops. Shouldn`t be impossible to build a chip that is that capable in the upcoming years.

Ahh.... well I can see that then.
Yes 1,5-2years from now a new Tegra 5, beating a PS3 sounds very likely.

The playstation 3, was out in 2005 though.
So its like.... a 10 year differnce in technology.

Sounds like it should be able to squeeze into the power limit,
a tablet has by then.

PS3 level on a tablet will still be a huge jump up, from what today has.
 

Cloudfire777

Golden Member
Mar 24, 2013
1,787
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Nvidia said this:

Tegra5 will out perform an 9 year old piece of hardware, oh wow Nvidia very impressive. :sneaky:

It is actually a great thing. We couldn`t do that before due to ineffective architectures and the size of basically everything since Cell was 90nm. Now we are down to 28nm and have better architectures that can output less heat.

To pack power like a 8-core and a desktop GPU (old one though) inside a slim touchpad that is passive cooled that runs on battery that is expected to last a good while, compared to a massive console with fans that are always connected to AC, is impressive.
 

notty22

Diamond Member
Jan 1, 2010
3,375
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Unoptimized ES hardware running on tablet power levels, alpha software.
I can see why the Vision(less)
images
team is worried. The consoles still 9 months out+ will have competition from cell phones, a year in. Making console tech seem obsolete fast. Good time for youngster gamers at least.
Let's hope average pricing for mobile games stay relative, that will really sway attention.
 

Lonyo

Lifer
Aug 10, 2002
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Did you read the thread?
The last few posts have just been about the fact that in 2 years we might have tablets that beat the PS3.
You are now claiming 1 year into PS4's life it will have competition from cell phones?
Not really any more or less competitin than currently, since the phones will be better and so will the console they are competing against.#

We will go from current phones vs current consoles to future phones vs future consoles.

Also people seem to be assuming that the power of the new SoCs will be taken full advantage of.
How? By whom?
One SoC in an unknown number of products doesn't result in large marketshare that people develop top level games for.
Either you're an Apple with combined and limited hardware/software stack, or you're Sony/Nintendo with a specific hardware configuration, or you end up with a massively fragmented hardware/sofware spectum like Android currently.

How is Tegra 5 going to do anything to set the world on fire if people aren't developing games for it?
It could be 5x as fast as anything else, but if it's only in one product, and everything is developed for all the other SoCs, i wouldn't make any difference.

We know hardware will be faster in 1 years time, and in 2 years time, and in 3 years time, the main thing is how widespread and widely adopted this faster hardware will be, and whether people will actually be able to take advanage of it.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,107
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Fanboy fantasies are the most amusing. This forum seems to have an influx of fresh nvidia fanboy trolls lately.

Sitting at the keyboard trolling all day with made up nonsense, what fun...
 

scott14522

Junior Member
Nov 15, 2009
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All I heard him say was "mobile kepler", are we sure they weren't showcasing something like the razer tablet?
Also, there are a lot of tablet games on ios/android based on the unreal engine, and they all look better than what they demo'd.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
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Considering Tegra 4 isn't going to be released until later this year, Tegra 5 is not going to be out in one years time.

Tegra 4 was pushed back by one quarter in order to push forward Tegra 4i and Tegra 5. So the expectation is that the first Tegra 5 "Logan" variant will indeed be available within ~ one year's time.
 

cganesh75

Elite Member | For Sale/Trade
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Oct 8, 2005
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Please keep this thread civil, personal attack and disrespect to other posters will not be tolerated.

Anandtech Moderator
cganesh75
 

geniusloci

Member
Mar 6, 2012
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Then you are being short sighted. The more powreful tablets become, they can eventually replace low power PCs (which they already are doing). In the medical field surgeons can use the ipad to hone their skills: http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddes.../feb/27/touch-surgery-ipad-app-surgeons-learn Now with a more powreful GPU, it would be even more realistic and thus beneficial.

It could also use wireless (or wired) connection to your TV + a BT controller and serve as an htpc + console anytime you want it to. So you end up with a device that is good for media consumption, work, reading, gaming and productivity if you pair it with a dock. Or with nvidia's new streaming technology, you can beam desktop games directly to a tegra powered tablet for pc gaming. Looks like 2014 will be very interesting.

No, what you end up with is a very powerful closed system toy. Nothing more. All the things you're discussing would require functionality that isn't in the interest of the responsible parties to supply.
 

ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
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The truth is, you're trying to compare the graphics of a 1 year old SOC to the SOC which isn't out for another year, hell, the version BEFORE the one youre talking about isn't even out yet.

That is true, although technically the A6X SoC in ipad 4 has only been commercially available for ~ five months, while the Tegra 4 SoC is supposed to be commercially available within ~ two months from now. Tegra 4 has some of the same API limitations that A6X has in the sense that it obviously cannot run DX11.x or OpenGL 4.x content, but Tegra 4 has more robust CPU/GPU hardware than A6X, and therefore may have improved visual effects in Tegra-optimized games.
 
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ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
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I highly doubt a tablet chip, even 2 generations from now (tegra4->5) will be able to beat a PS4's performance.

Obviously it will take many years for low power mobile SoC's to outperform the upcoming PS4, but low power mobile SoC's next year will outperform the PS3 and Xbox 360 with respect to GFLOPS throughput (for lack of a better performance metric for comparison). So, ironically, a Shield v2 with Tegra 5 next year will be a controller that will finally outperform the full PS3 and Xbox 360 consoles available this year. Yes, the PS3 and Xbox 360 will be replaced very soon and have been on the market for many years, but considering the enormous difference in power consumption between a low power mobile SoC and these consoles, still an impressive achievement nevertheless.
 
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Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
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Pretty funny to think that my Galaxy S V will outperform a PS4 or Xbox 720. That is pretty sad if true.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
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They're smoking something if they believe that. The capabilities may be there in the numbers but to outperform the PS3 you have to make use of it, at 720p.

It's not like you need great graphics with a bunch of crapware swipe swipe tap games.

This is true and this won't change either. People won't buy a full fledged game for $50+ on their tablet when they can download 200 free games and a couple $1 games for the kids and be done with it.
Pretty funny to think that my Galaxy S V will outperform a PS4 or Xbox 720. That is pretty sad if true.

No offense, I have nothing against you're defense of Nvidia but that statement...no. For one the Galaxy line of phones are not tegra powered.
 
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ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
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Pretty funny to think that my Galaxy S V will outperform a PS4 or Xbox 720. That is pretty sad if true.

No no, it won't come close to outperforming next gen consoles. You will probably have to wait for Galaxy S9 or S10 for that to happen.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
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They're smoking something if they believe that. The capabilities may be there in the numbers but to outperform the PS3 you have to make use of it, at 720p.



This is true and this won't change either. People won't buy a full fledged game for $50+ on their tablet when they can download 200 free games and a couple $1 games for the kids and be done with it.


No offense, I have nothing against you're defense of Nvidia but that statement...no. For one the Galaxy line of phones are not tegra powered.

Dude, no offense either, but in what way shape or form was this in defense of anything? Let alone Nvidia? I know the Galaxy line doesn't run on tegra. But things can always change by next year and I might not have a Galaxy S phone then. Could have been any smartphone by any smartphone builder. I just currently have a Galaxy S3.
 

Keysplayr

Elite Member
Jan 16, 2003
21,209
50
91
No no, it won't come close to outperforming next gen consoles. You will probably have to wait for Galaxy S9 or S10 for that to happen.

That's not what we're hearing in this thread. Do you have any info?
 

AnandThenMan

Diamond Member
Nov 11, 2004
3,949
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That's not what we're hearing in this thread. Do you have any info?
Read the thread again, and what Nvidia stated. Then come back and tell us if you still believe a smartphone is going to outperform a PS4 anytime soon, as per your post.
 

cmdrdredd

Lifer
Dec 12, 2001
27,052
357
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Dude, no offense either, but in what way shape or form was this in defense of anything? Let alone Nvidia? I know the Galaxy line doesn't run on tegra. But things can always change by next year and I might not have a Galaxy S phone then. Could have been any smartphone by any smartphone builder. I just currently have a Galaxy S3.

This is about Tegra and you are a focus group member for one. SO it stands to reason you'd defend Nvidia's position. Then you specified Galaxy S V as in V=5? That phone will in all likeliness still run on Samsung's Exynos. Why would samsung give up on it's own SoC and buy chips from someone else? I can't see that.

Next year's phones just simply will not outperform a PS4. They are getting faster and faster, but they have such a small power envelope to work with.
 

blackened23

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2011
8,548
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Pretty funny to think that my Galaxy S V will outperform a PS4 or Xbox 720. That is pretty sad if true.

lol. Someone tell me about this fantasy land when the Tegra 4's GPU is 96Gflops while the PS4 is 1900 Gflops. Wait. Let's backtrack for a second. The xbox 360 from 2005 is 240 Gflops. So the Tegra 4 has 1/3rd of the performance of the xbox 360, oh wait - the Tegra 4 is pixel vertex shaders so it isn't usable for gaming anyway. Modern gaming uses unified shaders. Whoops.

The Tegra 5 MIGHT come close to the xbox 360. MAYBE. Xbox 720? Okay if you say so. Let's just ignore the fact that tegra 4 ISNT OUT YET and here we are talking about the tegra 5 - a smart phone chip - being usable for gaming.

So Tegra 5 is going from 95 Gflops to 1900 Gflops. Okay pal if you say so. So tegra 5 is going to outperform both the PS4 and match the performance of the GTX 670, which is slightly higher than 1900Gflops.. Tell me about this fantasy land you're in. I bet the Tegra 5 will use pixel vertex shaders as well, which ironically enough would make it unusable for gaming. Perhaps you're pushing your company line too hard when you sound this utterly ridiculous.
 
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ams23

Senior member
Feb 18, 2013
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So the Tegra 4 has 1/3rd of the performance of the xbox 360, oh wait - the Tegra 4 is pixel vertex shaders so it isn't usable for gaming anyway.

Right, so the PS3 isn't "usable" for gaming due to non-unified shaders? A unified shader architecture is a more modern shader architecture, but that doesn't mean that a non-unified shader architecture is not usable. In fact, Tegra 4 will probably offer better gaming performance than any other low power mobile SoC available on the market today, irrespective of what shader architecture is used.

The Tegra 5 MIGHT come close to the xbox 360.

The expectation is that Tegra 5 will have > 400 GFLOPS throughput (since Kayla has 384 CUDA "cores" operating at 540MHz and is said to offer similar performance). Obviously not close to the PS4, but certainly more than a match for Xbox 360 and PS3 at least in terms of throughput.
 

Vesku

Diamond Member
Aug 25, 2005
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Will they have an ARM64+Kepler/Maxwell SoC in 2014? If so, my guess would be Q3/Q4 at earliest.