Nvidia?s heavy-handed attitude triggers backlash among graphics card makers

[powervr2]

digitimes

nvidia need a serious kick from either ati or kyro/st (imagination)

 

[pidge]

That is such a stupid article.



<< On the other hand, Lung Hwa noted that since Nvidia tends to unveil a large range of products within a short time, downstream manufacturers are confused about different specifications and thus have difficulty formulating marketing strategies. Therefore, it has decided to adopt KYRO-II graphics chips and forge a strategic alliance with ST. >>



This company must be full of idiots working for them. Each company has 3 or 4 different categories, budget PC, mainstream and high end, and possible workstation. NVIDIA already says they like to refresh their product lines every six months. So if you know this, how hard can it get? This company is just lame.



<< These moves are expected to cause ripples in the graphics card market. >>



<laughing>Oh no. I am sure the move of Lung Hwa is starting to scare other graphic companies. </laughing>

I really loved what the register had to say:



<< Well-known names (ahem) Club 3D, Chance-I, Ennyah, InnoVision, Joytech, Kifer,Lung Hwa, MPlusTech, OJU CTN and Suma today all announced Kyro II-based boards. Expect to see them in no-name PCs real soon now. >>



This article is basically about no name companies that are upset. These are companies that because they are small are always upset that they don't get as good of treatment as bigger companies. I don't put much weight on what they have to say.

The article also mentions Trident? Please. Who the hell wrote this dumb article. Talk about Matrox or ATI, then I might be interested.

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

Taiwanese manufacturers like to manufacture 1 or 2 types of cards... instead of 6... OEM manufacturers don't care how *lame* they seem, they want simplicity and profitability.

Kyro's flightpath is a little easier to follow than nVidia's, which does include a lot of different chips, all of which fluctuate wildly in price.

Kyro's prices should be more stable since ST is not aggressive as nVidia in their product development cycles.

But this is not the whole story as to why the Taiwanese are moving away from nVidia... check out theregister.co.uk and theinquirer.net - They're usually on the mark.

 

[UKtaxman]

Who do you think manufacture all those dirt cheap mx boards, or all the OEM stuf??? Yep, its the Taiwanese- this is a little more serious for Nvidia than you might imagine. Where do you think Nvidia make all their money??? Yep, its the OEM and no name cheapo boards that are sold en-mass. Maybe someone could do with being fired in their PR section?

 

[pidge]

This is different though. You are referring to small companies that sell their video cards to some small mom and pop system builders. Dell, Gateway, Compaq, HP etc., they buy their chips from NVIDIA than contract a Fab company to manufacture their video cards for them. This does not hurt NVIDIA nor will it hurt ATI as they change their business model to that of NVIDIA.

 

[Eug]

Not a money or business expert, but here's my 2 cents:

While I dislike nVidia's business practices of late and agree that they've been too heavy handed, I don't think Lung Hwa's opinion alone is going to sway nVidia. That is too bad actually. However, if more join the fold, I wonder if nVidia will change its tune. A company of that size can still churn out 10's of thousands of Kyro II a year, and that's nothing to sneeze at.

 

[PotNoodle]

advocate ,

? Kyro's prices should be more stable since ST is not aggressive as nVidia in their product development cycles. ?

Ummmm ? why do you say that? Perhaps its best to wait a little while before making those assumptions, after all ST only re-entered the graphics scene last year. First they produce KYRO, and then 6 months later they produce KYROII ? isn?t this according to NVIDIA?s scheme of things?

pidge,

?The article also mentions Trident? Please.?

Did you not notice the news a few days back??

http://www.digit-life.com/news.html

&quot; Saturday, 26 May 2001
Press release - InnoVISION announces Inno3D Blade Series 3D Graphics Accelerator

The Inno3D BladeXP128 is a 128bit wide graphics card aimed at the cost-conscious consumer, but its performance will appease performance-demanding users, featuring very impressive 3D / 2D and multimedia performance statistics. Inno3D BladeT64 is a 64bit memory bus version, mainly target for System Integrators.&quot;

Apparently Inno feel they can make enough off it for them to only just be releasing a card ? Inno is one of the more well known far east vendors as well.

 

[Killrose]

I like Nvidia products. I've had a TNT1, Geforce1 SDR, (2) Geforce1 DDR, one which I still have. But I don't think you can call a very successful, high geared product release cycle &quot;heavy Handed&quot;. This industry, like any other is market driven and video card buyers are fickel and want the fastest, most feature packed products and we want them yesterday. Now the Intel/Via balloon thing, thats heavy handed.
But I do agree we need more, highly successful chip manufactures in the market place. But we need to support them as well. Notice my card in my sig? I don't think I'll buy another card fo awhile, but when I do, chances are it will not be an Nvidia based card. However I do have my eyes on that Crush thing for a second system......

 

[DevilsAdvocate]

potnoodle - Kyro 1 is older than 6 months old. What I meant by my statement is that since there are not as many product refreshes so far in the Kyro line, there is not as much pressure to lower prices every few months when a new product is released, like there is in the nVidia line (MX, MX200, MX400, GTS, GTS Pro, Ultra, etc...). Everytime one of these cards is released it has a significant effect on the pricing for the entire line.

If a smaller manufacturer buys from a company that does not put out as many versions of chips, there is less exposure to the rapid depreciation that occurs whenever next generation hardware is announced, which happens frequently with nVidia. This makes costs more predictable, and can allow the OEM to buy a higher volume of chips, which allows him to make more boards for less.

 

[pidge]

PotNoodle,
I don't think ATI, Matrox or NVIDIA are worried about Trident. Look at how long Matrox and ATI have lasted and how good NVIDIA is doing (which I believe NVIDIA's track record over the last 3 years is simply amazing). My point is, no need to fight over and worry over the scraps when you already own the main course. If all of a suddent, Trident or Kyro II got design wins from HP, Gateway, Dell, Compaq, NEC, Fujitsu Siemans, SGI, IBM, Sony, Micron and had add in board manufacturers like Hercules (one point for KyroII), Elsa (which will probably stick with NVIDIA since they cater to workstation market and rely heavily on NVIDIA), Asus, Leadtek, Visiontek, Gainward, eVGA and many of the well known companies, then NVIDIA can start worrying.

 

[Eug]

Isn't Visiontek making Kyro II's? By the way pidge, several of those latter companies you've listed aren't really huge as I understand it, in the greater scheme of things, especially when you consider the Asian market. Could be wrong though. Haven't checked the stats lately.

 

[pidge]

My whole point was that this was just a drop in the bucket and nothing to really get worried about. That article is blowing things out of proportion.

 

[jobberd]

i am curious as to why powervr2 is so negative towards nvidia and always pro choice to kyro? If you look at the posts in these forums, you'll see that he does nothing but bash nvidia or promote the kyro. I think he should get his facts together, and realize that Nvidia is a powerful, wise, and beneficial company, just like any other company out there. You complain about underhand tactics? I bet not one company has not used a srategy or ploy that would not be considered &quot;fair&quot; to others in the past. Every company has its own to offer. ATI has its truform. Kyro has its tile based rendering. Nvidia has its crush chipset. In other words, what I'm saying is that Nvidia does not need a &quot;serious kick from ati or kyro&quot;. They have been contributing far more as of late then most companies. so back off

 

[rake]

Barrons in March reported that in actual fact 30% of Nvidia's total sales were to Edom, a Taiwanese supplier to white-box computer makers. Nvidia CEO Jen Hsun Huang also stated that in the future Taiwan will make up 60% of Nvidia's sales in two years (source : Bloomberg).

As much as Hercules / Elsa etc deals catch the eye of gamers and forum contributors increasingly the Far East is where the graphics chip revenue is at.

Rake

 

[PotNoodle]

advocate,

?Kyro 1 is older than 6 months old.?

It wasn?t by a huge deal by the time KYROII was released ? KYRO had been heard about early in 2000, but it was actually released at retail very late.

? What I meant by my statement is that since there are not as many product refreshes so far in the Kyro line, there is not as much pressure to lower prices every few months when a new product is released, like there is in the nVidia line (MX, MX200, MX400, GTS, GTS Pro, Ultra, etc...). Everytime one of these cards is released it has a significant effect on the pricing for the entire line.?

Personally I would contest that many of those are ?product refreshes? ? most of them are line diversifications using different memory configurations; is there any reason that a similar thing may not happen with ST?s line? How do you know there isn?t a KYROII Ultra round the corner?

But this is probably what was menat by one of those comments made in the article quoted ? NVIDIA haven?t really made any ?product? changes to MX / GTS they have just made vendors diversify their line up with NVIDIA stipulating which memory MUST be bundled with the chips they buy.

? If a smaller manufacturer buys from a company that does not put out as many versions of chips, there is less exposure to the rapid depreciation that occurs whenever next generation hardware is announced, which happens frequently with nVidia.?

This may well be true ? but would it be an issue for the board vendors if nVIDIA weren?t being so heavy handed in the first place and allowed them to trade with other suppliers? Ironically for those board vendors who wanted to go with KYROII but were put of for fear of loosing any revenue stream by NVIDIA turning off their supply, the recent ATI announcement will could come as a godsend ? now they can go for a supplier who they know will produce regular product refreshes, and they can also go for other vendors chips as well.


pidge,

?I don't think ATI, Matrox or NVIDIA are worried about Trident.?

I didn?t say they need to be, I?m just making the point that apparently vendors believe they can make money from these chipsets, to the point that they still release them now!