Nvidia ,Rtx2080ti,2080,2070, information thread. Reviews and prices September 14.

[PeterScott]

Tomb Raider devs said the demo had a poor, incomplete version and they're going to address it with a patch. They have 4 weeks until release to properly implement new technology, I'm not holding my breath.

It's too bad that 4 weeks is the hard cutoff, and no patches will ever be allowed in improve it more after that... Oh wait!

First if, then the conviction that it is. Not to be picky, just an observation

The thing is we just don't know. And even if it's good, it cannot be so much better to warrant the approximate 40% price increase.

It's got ~20% shader unit count increase of all new SMs, a clock speed boost, and ~30% memory bandwidth boost, and semantics aside is exactly the same price that the first GP102 cards were when released.

If you are buying the absolute best card on the market, it really isn't about bang/buck anymore, it's about the biggest bang, and this is it, by a significant margin, even in normal non raytraced games.

 

[Hitman928]

Here's another hands on accounting: https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia-rtx-2080-ti-hands-on

The first thing that does need to be said. . . we were obviously playing early versions of the RTX builds of both games, and with relatively early drivers for the RTX 2080 Ti graphics card too.

Tomb raider

We weren’t able to see what settings the game was running at

With the FPS counter on in GFE we could see the game batting between 33fps and 48fps [at 1080p] as standard throughout our playthrough and that highlights just how intensive real-time ray tracing can be on the new GeForce hardware.

While the shadows in my play-time did look pretty good, in that brightly lit instance it’s hard to see where they look that much better than the traditional way that shadows are faked in-game. And to enable the ray traced shadows you’re obviously having to pay a huge performance penalty for the privilege.

I’m not even 100% convinced Shadow of the Tomb Raider was running at max settings at 1080p

Battlefield 5

Playing the new Rotterdam map in Battlefield 5, however, was more convincing of how good real-time ray tracing can make a game look.

And everything has reflections. From the bonnets of cars reflecting the muzzle flash of your rifle, to the puddles on the floor, and the about-to-be-blown-out windows of a Dutch tram reflecting gouts of flame from a red-hot tank. The wooden stock of your gun has low level, ray traced reflections on it, hell, even the watery eyes of your soldier seems to.

But of course there is still a hefty performance hit to the game. . . while we couldn’t bring the fps counter up in the show demo version, we’d bet it wasn’t hitting 60fps either. And in a competitive online shooter visual fidelity is arguably far less important than getting a high frame rate. And running at a higher resolution, without the ray traced reflections, would likely be preferable too as you could actually see more detail at range for those precision shots from downtown.

Kind of a mixed bag for this person. Will be interesting to hear more impressions and see some actual numbers as time moves on.

 

[sze5003]

Here's another hands on accounting: https://www.pcgamesn.com/nvidia-rtx-2080-ti-hands-on


Tomb raider





Battlefield 5




Kind of a mixed bag for this person. Will be interesting to hear more impressions and see some actual numbers as time moves on.

Yup from most previews I've read rtx hits performance hard. Definitely something to consider if that's the only reason to get one.

As long as it offers significant improvement with it off in the same titles most people will be happy. But that performance has to be significant for sure. In the end you are paying for this new architecture and when it picks up it's not like you will get improvements with the same card say 2 years from now..you will need the new rtx model of course.

 

[Det0x]

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13261/hands-on-with-the-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-realtime-raytracing

Hands-on with the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti: Real-time Raytracing in Games

After yesterday’s announcement from NVIDIA, we finally know what’s coming: the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, GeForce RTX 2080, and GeForce RTX 2070. So naturally, after the keynote in the Palladium venue, NVIDIA provided hands-on demos and gameplay as the main event of their public GeForce Gaming Celebration. The demos in question were all powered by the $1200 GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Founders Edition, with obligatory custom watercooling rigs showing off their new gaming flagship.

While also having a presence at Gamescom 2018, this is their main fare for showcasing the new GeForce RTX cards. In a separate walled-off area, NVIDIA offered press some gameplay time with two GeForce RTX supporting titles: Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Battlefield V. Otherwise, they also had a veritable army of RTX 2080 Ti equipped gaming PCs for the public, also demoing Battlefield V and Shadow of the Tomb Raider (without RTX features), along with Hitman 2 and Metro: Exodus. Additionally, there were a few driving simulator rigs for Assetto Corsa Competizione, including one with hydraulic feedback. These games, and more, support real-time ray tracing with RTX, but not necessarily Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS), another technology that NVIDIA announced.

GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Hands-on: Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Starting with Shadow of the Tomb Raider, I got to play through a platforming puzzling sequence that was amusingly difficult to navigate. I thought I was just bad, but the neighboring gamer fared just as poorly and we ended up trading tips on each successive obstacle. Poor skills aside, the game was rendered in 1080p and capped at 60fps with the graphics settings locked, but I could definitely notice framedrops, even though the gameplay was rather slow-paced.

The game was rendering an outdoors scene, but because of the 1080p quality on a roughly 24” screen, I couldn’t see much of an overall quality improvement. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize until afterward that we had the option of capturing our footage, though honestly I’m glad no one was subjected to a video recording of my gaming incompetence.

Because we only had a certain allotted time, we didn’t get to finish that puzzle sequence, but from a real-time ray tracing perspective, it was hard for me to distinguish any added effects. It appears that this opinion was similar enough to others’ that the Tomb Raider Twitter issued a clarification.

GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Hands-on: Battlefield V
For Battlefield V, the situation was similar with a 1080p 144Hz monitor, playing on the Rotterdam map over LAN. There were framedrops during fast-paced scenes and in general it didn’t seem like it could keep up with the game. Again, there was no FPS info available but the RTX 2080 Ti was almost surely not cranking out constant 60fps. Here, the real-time ray tracing was quite noticeable, with vivid dynamic reflections in puddles, windows, and river. Even at 1080p, those features added to the overall image quality, though the ultimate performance cost was unclear. Framerates aren't a good tradeoff for image quality in fast-paced FPS', though for the record, I’ve always been terrible at shooters (except maybe Halo 2).

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Straight from Anandtech themself, 1080p gaming at sub 60FPS here we go!
Seems like 100 giga-rays™ is needed to do it realtime on a proper resolution.

This is probably the intended market with Turing.

That's a new 250B market they did not have access to before Turning, with its ray-tracing engines.

Ray-tracing in games with gimpworks is likely a afterthought..

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13215/nvidia-siggraph-2018-keynote-live-blog-4pm-pacific

I wonder how much of that ~750mm2 diespace is "wasted" on these raytracing engines for a gaming card ? I would guesstimate the same fp32 performance could be reached with a ~500-525mm2 die.

With predetermined margins:

Die size directly affects the price you have to pay.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

It's too bad that 4 weeks is the hard cutoff, and no patches will ever be allowed in improve it more after that... Oh wait!

It's got ~20% shader unit count increase of all new SMs, a clock speed boost, and ~30% memory bandwidth boost, and semantics aside is exactly the same price that the first GP102 cards were when released.

If you are buying the absolute best card on the market, it really isn't about bang/buck anymore, it's about the biggest bang, and this is it, by a significant margin, even in normal non raytraced games.

If a new product (GPU) is advertised conjointly with a game that is promised to include the specific technology that forms the sales pitch of said product and it turns out that they were dishonest because said game releases without the aforementioned implementation I feel cheated. I am not interested in an inclusion patch who knows how far down the road.

As to listing the hard specification increases: it forms a base for suspected performance, but it's still guessing.

I suppose our ideas and expectations from a product announcement differ somewhat, and that's okay

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13261/hands-on-with-the-geforce-rtx-2080-ti-realtime-raytracing

Hands-on with the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti: Real-time Raytracing in Games

After yesterday’s announcement from NVIDIA, we finally know what’s coming: the GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, GeForce RTX 2080, and GeForce RTX 2070. So naturally, after the keynote in the Palladium venue, NVIDIA provided hands-on demos and gameplay as the main event of their public GeForce Gaming Celebration. The demos in question were all powered by the $1200 GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Founders Edition, with obligatory custom watercooling rigs showing off their new gaming flagship.

While also having a presence at Gamescom 2018, this is their main fare for showcasing the new GeForce RTX cards. In a separate walled-off area, NVIDIA offered press some gameplay time with two GeForce RTX supporting titles: Shadow of the Tomb Raider and Battlefield V. Otherwise, they also had a veritable army of RTX 2080 Ti equipped gaming PCs for the public, also demoing Battlefield V and Shadow of the Tomb Raider (without RTX features), along with Hitman 2 and Metro: Exodus. Additionally, there were a few driving simulator rigs for Assetto Corsa Competizione, including one with hydraulic feedback. These games, and more, support real-time ray tracing with RTX, but not necessarily Deep Learning Super Sampling (DLSS), another technology that NVIDIA announced.

GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Hands-on: Shadow of the Tomb Raider
Starting with Shadow of the Tomb Raider, I got to play through a platforming puzzling sequence that was amusingly difficult to navigate. I thought I was just bad, but the neighboring gamer fared just as poorly and we ended up trading tips on each successive obstacle. Poor skills aside, the game was rendered in 1080p and capped at 60fps with the graphics settings locked, but I could definitely notice framedrops, even though the gameplay was rather slow-paced.

The game was rendering an outdoors scene, but because of the 1080p quality on a roughly 24” screen, I couldn’t see much of an overall quality improvement. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize until afterward that we had the option of capturing our footage, though honestly I’m glad no one was subjected to a video recording of my gaming incompetence.

Because we only had a certain allotted time, we didn’t get to finish that puzzle sequence, but from a real-time ray tracing perspective, it was hard for me to distinguish any added effects. It appears that this opinion was similar enough to others’ that the Tomb Raider Twitter issued a clarification.

GeForce RTX 2080 Ti Hands-on: Battlefield V
For Battlefield V, the situation was similar with a 1080p 144Hz monitor, playing on the Rotterdam map over LAN. There were framedrops during fast-paced scenes and in general it didn’t seem like it could keep up with the game. Again, there was no FPS info available but the RTX 2080 Ti was almost surely not cranking out constant 60fps. Here, the real-time ray tracing was quite noticeable, with vivid dynamic reflections in puddles, windows, and river. Even at 1080p, those features added to the overall image quality, though the ultimate performance cost was unclear. Framerates aren't a good tradeoff for image quality in fast-paced FPS', though for the record, I’ve always been terrible at shooters (except maybe Halo 2).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Straight from Anandtech themself, 1080p gaming at sub 60FPS here we go!

Surely Jensen just forgot to mention that!

 

[Hitman928]

It's got ~20% shader unit count increase of all new SMs, a clock speed boost, and ~30% memory bandwidth boost, and semantics aside is exactly the same price that the first GP102 cards were when released.

If you are buying the absolute best card on the market, it really isn't about bang/buck anymore, it's about the biggest bang, and this is it, by a significant margin, even in normal non raytraced games.

I thought clock speed was reduced on Turing?

Edit: Nevermind, the phantom MSRP version has lower clock speeds but the FE and OEMs will all have higher.

 

[dlerious]

Actually there was a Demo of this, but of course it wasn't a blanket all games thing. They demoed UE4 Infiltrator running 4K, at over 70FPS, while they claimed it runs less than 40 FPS on a 1080Ti.

But that kind of one off demo, just makes you question why that happened in that one instance.

The true performance question won't be answered until reviewers test a variety of Games. Both NVidia/AMD are always guilty of showing performance demos that are most favorable to the HW they want to sell.

Third party reviews are they only real answer.

Where was that demo? The one they showed at the live stream was 59-60 fps and I saw stuttering when the scene moved up to the soldiers.

 

[elhefegaming]

asking for advise here,
i have a 1070 (bought at 300$) and 1080 (bought a 600$)

I'm not mining anymore so I only need one for gaming (i have an 8700k and 1440p 144hz monitor).

What'd make the most sense? sell the 1070 or sell the 1080? i;m not gaming that much today and wont be for the next couple of months (child was born) so i dont want to keep 'losing' money

 

[sze5003]

asking for advise here,
i have a 1070 (bought at 300$) and 1080 (bought a 600$)

I'm not mining anymore so I only need one for gaming (i have an 8700k and 1440p 144hz monitor).

What'd make the most sense? sell the 1070 or sell the 1080? i;m not gaming that much today and wont be for the next couple of months (child was born) so i dont want to keep 'losing' money

If you are going to keep playing later at that resolution sell the 1070 while you can get some money for it. Not sure how much more you would get for the 1080 as prices will be dropping on this gen soon enough.

 

[PeterScott]

As to listing the hard specification increases: it forms a base for suspected performance, but it's still guessing.

So now you are going to pretend NVidia went backwards on performance/shader? That really isn't a credible position.

You need to have some serious counter argument, if you want to claim it will be less than that. All 30% requires is basic competence not to screw it up, and NVidia has been demonstrating beyond baseline competence for MANY years.

With the 2080Ti's boost in shader counts, clock speed and memory BW, There should be a easy 30% improvement over 1080Ti in games. That's not guessing. It's the baseline starting point.

 

[Kenmitch]

First if, then the conviction that it is. Not to be picky, just an observation

The thing is we just don't know. And even if it's good, it cannot be so much better to warrant the approximate 40% price increase.

40% seems a little low on the increase as a person can get a new EVGA 1080Ti for $599 and you'll have the benefit of the step up program if you decided you made a bad purchase.

https://www.theverge.com/good-deals...idia-gtx-1080-ti-sale-exclusive-discount-deal

Waiting for official reviews would be best before passing final judgement on if the card is worth it or not. I'm guessing it would really depend on a persons intended uses. Anybody with less than a 1080Ti might be better off picking one up on a fire sale pricing....Time will tell in the end.

 

[RichUK]

So 1080p and circa 60fps on the 2080 TI to enjoy the questionable picture quality enhancements of ray tracing.

Hhmmmmmm....

Unless software patches / updated drivers can unlock peformance improvements, I'm not sure this is really going to be a raging success. Let's hope the performance with ray tracing disabled is significantly better than the 1080 etc

 

[TheF34RChannel]

So now you are going to pretend NVidia went backwards on performance/shader? That really isn't a credible position.

You need to have some serious counter argument, if you want to claim it will be less than that. All 30% requires is basic competence not to screw it up, and NVidia has been demonstrating beyond baseline competence for MANY years.

With the 2080Ti's boost in shader counts, clock speed and memory BW, There should be a easy 30% improvement over 1080Ti in games. That's not guessing. It's the baseline starting point.

Of course they didn't degrade performance, that's not what I meant to say. My point was that at this point we simply don't have the factual performance increase numbers, only expectations. Past results do not guarantee the future.

Why didn't they show comparisons?

 

[Kenmitch]

Why didn't they show comparisons?

Seeing how JHH loves to toot his horn a reasonable person would be questioning why he didn't.

 

[DisarmedDespot]

If the RTX series is really 2x faster than the GTX 10XX series, Nvidia's entire marketing department needs to be fired. They clearly mentioned the improvement over their previous gen when the 10XX series launched, why not now? Instead people are running on rumors and hearsay. It doesn't make any sense.

 

[sze5003]

If the RTX series is really 2x faster than the GTX 10XX series, Nvidia's entire marketing department needs to be fired. They clearly mentioned the improvement over their previous gen when the 10XX series launched, why not now? Instead people are running on rumors and hearsay. It doesn't make any sense.

Yea specially when these preview articles say so that they perform like this too. You would think this would be the main focus of the presentation and then talk about rtx for 20 minutes. Instead it was a full hour on shadows and lighting.

 

[TheF34RChannel]

If the RTX series is really 2x faster than the GTX 10XX series, Nvidia's entire marketing department needs to be fired. They clearly mentioned the improvement over their previous gen when the 10XX series launched, why not now? Instead people are running on rumors and hearsay. It doesn't make any sense.

I'll answer your and my own question: because they're hiding (something) behind the 'this new architecture is so different you can't compare it' - mark my words.

 

[gdansk]

I think it's obvious that Turing's architecture won't be much faster. If it was that much faster, why have they launched the Ti edition immediately? They launched with the 2080 Ti because the 2080 would not have been much of an improvement over the 1080 Ti. Secondly, if it was much faster in traditional performance Jensen and the marketing folks would have mentioned it. Finally, why are they shipping a "factory overclocked" reference design? Because the earliest benchmarks often compare new cards to the last generation reference cards. It will be a better buy than the Titan Xp but that's it.

 

[cmdrdredd]

So 1080p and circa 60fps on the 2080 TI to enjoy the questionable picture quality enhancements of ray tracing.

Hhmmmmmm....

Unless software patches / updated drivers can unlock peformance improvements, I'm not sure this is really going to be a raging success. Let's hope the performance with ray tracing disabled is significantly better than the 1080 etc

Yeah, it'll take probably another gen of products to really gain any performance as is usually the case with new tech for GPUs. My gut tells me that most 1080ti owners would be better off waiting for another round since they were pretty mum on the performance improvements over current cards in traditionally rendered games.

 

[PeterScott]

Of course they didn't degrade performance, that's not what I meant to say. My point was that at this point we simply don't have the factual performance increase numbers, only expectations. Past results do not guarantee the future.

Again, you are now repeating the same nonsense, they would have to have gone backwards to not get 30% out of the HW changes. 30% is the reasonable baseline.

Why didn't they show comparisons?

Because like or not, NVidia views Ray Tracing as the main point of this release. In previous release like Pascal for example, all they really had was higher clock-speed and so higher performance, so of course they are going to talk performance, when there is essentially nothing else but a performance bump.

This time, it's a revolutionary architecture overhaul, there was a LOT to talk about, and they probably didn't want to dilute the message. NVidia wants to make gaming all about Ray Tracing. I didn't watch it live, but I have since watched the nearly two hour presentation and IMO, it is packed with good stuff. It's the only GPU presentation that I ever thought was worth watching.

If you watched the presentation one comparison was mentioned. It was UE4 Infiltrator running ~TWICE as fast on 2080Ti as 1080TI at 4K.

It isn't like this will be a secret much longer cards are shipping in less than a month and reviews will be coming.

 

[sze5003]

Again, you are now repeating the same nonsense, they would have to have gone backwards to not get 30% out of the HW changes. 30% is the reasonable baseline.



Because like or not, NVidia views Ray Tracing as the main point of this release. In previous release like Pascal for example, all they really had was higher clock-speed and so higher performance, so of course they are going to talk performance, when there is essentially nothing else but a performance bump.

This time, it's a revolutionary architecture overhaul, there was a LOT to talk about, and they probably didn't want to dilute the message. NVidia wants to make gaming all about Ray Tracing. I didn't watch it live, but I have since watched the nearly two hour presentation and IMO, it is packed with good stuff. It's the only GPU presentation that I ever thought was worth watching.

If you watched the presentation one comparison was mentioned. It was UE4 Infiltrator running ~TWICE as fast on 2080Ti as 1080TI at 4K.

It isn't like this will be a secret much longer cards are shipping in less than a month and reviews will be coming.

I'm just hoping for the best but honestly why omit performance completely. If it's going to do so well, it would only help the presentation. He had more than enough time to talk about rtx and lighting and then all you had to do is at the end there throw up two graphs with benches of performance results comparing at least the 1080ti and 20 series with traditional rendering.

It would not have made people forget about rtx technology. By the time rtx is implemented correctly and optimised the 2080ti isn't going to do anything for you. It will take at least two years I think and you will definitely need to have the latest card again. So for this reason charging so much more in the beginning doesn't really make sense.

 

[Kenmitch]

Just wanted to let you guys know I'm going to enjoy reading the ninja edits once the reviews are out. It's not like you go back a month and edit a post for no reason other than trying to save face.

When was the last time JHH didn't talk gaming performance vs past generations?

 

[elhefegaming]

If you are going to keep playing later at that resolution sell the 1070 while you can get some money for it. Not sure how much more you would get for the 1080 as prices will be dropping on this gen soon enough.

Thanks that's what I thought.
Might as well get some cash for the 1070 and save for the next Gen. The 1080 will definitely keep me entertained until 21xx or even 22xx

 

[PeterScott]

When was the last time JHH didn't talk gaming performance vs past generations?

When was the last time JHH was doing a presentation about a complete paradigm shifting architecture?

There is no precedent for the this shift.

What do you think they are trying to hide? Are you another one trying to pretend the didn't even achieve the 30% gain from units/clockspeed/memory bandwidth?

 

[USER8000]

Yawn,why are tech enthusiasts so gullible to hype especially the newer ones? For the last 20 years every CPU and GPU company has hyped some new feature which will revolutionise everything and in reality the market is still behind the curve of what is potentially possible.

Wait for the reviews and see what performance is like.