Nvidia Ion vs Radeon 9700 Pro

[FearoftheNight]

Just out of curiosity to see how much we've come in the past few years. What do you guys think? I was just reading a review where the HP Ion Netbook with laptopmag.com scored over 1000 in 3d mark 06. Isn't that the same amount as the 9700 pro almost?

 

[alyarb]

the 9700 is still faster in D3D but it will not help the CPU decode HD video.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: alyarb
the 9700 is still faster in D3D but it will not help the CPU decode HD video.

actually the gpu in the ION is about like an 8400gs which way faster than a 9700.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: toyota
actully the gpu in th ION is about like an 8400gs which way faster than a 9700.

8400GS is roughly equivalent to Radeon 9600 PRO, though direct comparisons are difficult with DX10 games since R300 doesn't support DX10.

I have both 8400GS and 8500GT around here somewhere. I can run some benchmarks if desired.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: toyota
actully the gpu in th ION is about like an 8400gs which way faster than a 9700.

8400GS is roughly equivalent to Radeon 9600 PRO, though direct comparisons are difficult with DX10 games since R300 doesn't support DX10.

I have both 8400GS and 8500GT around here somewhere. I can run some benchmarks if desired.

well the numbers I remember seeing a few months after the 8600gt and 8500gt coming out showed the 8600gt almost twice as fast as the 7600gt in some games. that would put the 8500gt slightly slower than a 7600gt. and please dont look at launch reviews of the 8600gt/8500gt because initial drivers were horrendous. anyway the 8400gs is just an 8500gt with 64 bit bus. the 8400gs should beat the 6600gt in many games. the 6600gt was most certainly faster than the 9700 pro therefore the ION with its basically 8400gs gpu should be noticeably quicker than the 9700 pro. now in some games it might be close because that 64 bit bus can be a performance killer.

 

[HurleyBird]

Originally posted by: toyotawell the numbers I remember seeing a few months after the 8600gt and 8500gt coming out showed the 8600gt almost twice as fast as the 7600gt in some games.

I'm pretty sure most reviews were dissapointed as both cards performed about the same, and the 8600gt was sometimes worse.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: HurleyBird

Originally posted by: toyotawell the numbers I remember seeing a few months after the 8600gt and 8500gt coming out showed the 8600gt almost twice as fast as the 7600gt in some games.

I'm pretty sure most reviews were dissapointed as both cards performed about the same, and the 8600gt was sometimes worse.

nice selective quoting there. why dont you actually quote the part where I said "and please dont look at launch reviews of the 8600gt/8500gt because initial drivers were horrendous."

I know the 8600gt/8500gt both looked bad at launch but I can tell you from personal experience that performance nearly doubled in many cases with newer drivers. as you see from these game reviews the 8600gt is no where near as slow as the 7600gt like it was in many games when it was launched.

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6182806/p-5.html
Crysis 1024x768 Medium Quality
8600GT 30fps
7900GS 17fps
7600GT not playable at those settings

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6177688/p-6.html
Bioshock 1024x768 High Quality
8600GT 40fps
7900GS 38fps
7600GT 25fps

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6183967/p-4.html
COD4 1280x1024 Max Quality
8600GT 36fps
7900GS 25fps
7600GT 19fps

http://www.gamespot.com/features/6183499/p-4.html
UT3 1600x1200 Max Quality
8600GT 39fps
7900GS 28fps
7600GT 19fps

the same results hold true for FEAR, STALKER, Oblivian and other modern games at the times so please realize newer drivers made a MASSIVE improvement over the launch drivers.

 

[tcsenter]

The 8400GS was originally launched based on 80nm G86 core with only eight unified shaders. Unfortunately, this is the 8400GS I have and its slow as hell. It was later re-released based on the 55nm G98 core with the same configuration as the 8500GT (sixteen shaders). So it depends on which 8400GS you're referring to.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
The 8400GS was originally launched based on 80nm G86 core with only eight unified shaders. Unfortunately, this is the 8400GS I have and its slow as hell. It was later re-released based on the 55nm G98 core with the same configuration as the 8500GT (sixteen shaders). So it depends on which 8400GS you're referring to.

the 8400gs always had 16 sp.

 

[AzN]

Toyota why are you comparing a 8600gt to a 7600gt when ion and 9700pro was at question.

Anyways. Ion is crap. It's good for onboard video and hdcp stuff. That's it. 9700pro is still much faster in games.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Azn
Toyota why are you comparing a 8600gt to a 7600gt when ion and 9700pro was at question.

read my whole comment and you should figure it out.

 

[tcsenter]

Not according to Wikipedia and more than half the 8400GS models available from Newegg which list eight SP's.

Oh, and the ION is just a GF 9400M paired with a much weaker CPU than most desktop or laptop chips. GF 9400M is roughly equivalent to Radeon 9700 PRO.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Not according to Wikipedia and more than half the 8400GS models available from Newegg which list eight SP's.

Oh, and the ION is just a GF 9400M paired with a much weaker CPU than most desktop or laptop chips. GF 9400M is roughly equivalent to Radeon 9700 PRO.

you said the original g86 had 8 sp and that wasnt true because it had 16 sp. I guess you got it backwards and I knew that was wrong because i remember initial reviews talking about the 16 sp. anyway I did not know that the newer g98 only had 8 sp.

 

[AzN]

http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1240&pageID=4553

Anyway a ION is based on 8400GS core but it's still onboard video that has to share memory bandwidth with system memory. What does that mean? It's still slower than 8400gs.

Here we have Bjorn3d with a 8400gs review. Getting 37fps in half life @ 1024x768. A 9700pro got at least 60fps in that game. I know. I used to have one and played half life 2 with it.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: tcsenter
Not according to Wikipedia and more than half the 8400GS models available from Newegg which list eight SP's.

Oh, and the ION is just a GF 9400M paired with a much weaker CPU than most desktop or laptop chips. GF 9400M is roughly equivalent to Radeon 9700 PRO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_Ion

ION is based on 16SP.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Azn
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1240&pageID=4553

Anyway a ION is based on 8400GS core but it's still onboard video that has to share memory bandwidth with system memory. What does that mean? It's still slower than 8400gs.

Here we have Bjorn3d with a 8400gs review. Getting 37fps in half life @ 1024x768. A 9700pro got at least 60fps in that game. I know. I used to have one and played half life 2 with it.

thats HL2 Episode 2 and a 9700 would not come close to getting 60fps in that game. the 8400gs would easily beat the 9700 pro. my earlier point was making a connection between the 8 series and 6 series. it was well known that 6600gt and ati 9800 were very close. well an 8400gs is about the same as 6600gt. i already said that buy you missed I guess.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: toyota
you said the original g86 had 8 sp and that wasnt true because it had 16 sp. I guess you got it backwards and I knew that was wrong because i remember initial reviews talking about the 16 sp. anyway I did not know that the newer g98 only had 8 sp.

It doesn't, the G98 has 16 SP. The G86 based 8400GS only had half the SP enabled.

 

[AzN]

I think a 9700pro is roughly 8500gt performance levels.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: toyota
you said the original g86 had 8 sp and that wasnt true because it had 16 sp. I guess you got it backwards and I knew that was wrong because i remember initial reviews talking about the 16 sp. anyway I did not know that the newer g98 only had 8 sp.

It doesn't, the G98 has 16 SP. The G86 based 8400GS only had half the SP enabled.

you are wrong, read your own link to the wiki page. the initial retail 8400gs had 16sp.

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Azn
I think a 9700pro is roughly 8500gt performance levels.

nope. the 8500gt after driver improvements was faster than a 6600gt. a 6600gt was slightly faster than a 9800xt so a 8500gt would be noticeably faster than a 9700 pro.

 

[tcsenter]

Originally posted by: toyota
you are wrong, read your own link to the wiki page. the initial 8400gs had 16sp.

The Wikipedia page I linked to never mentions SP's for the 8400GS, it merely mentions there were two 8400GS versions. This specifies the configuration that was used for each of the two versions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...ce_8_.288xxx.29_series

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Azn
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1240&pageID=4553

Anyway a ION is based on 8400GS core but it's still onboard video that has to share memory bandwidth with system memory. What does that mean? It's still slower than 8400gs.

Here we have Bjorn3d with a 8400gs review. Getting 37fps in half life @ 1024x768. A 9700pro got at least 60fps in that game. I know. I used to have one and played half life 2 with it.

thats HL2 Episode 2 and a 9700 would not come close to getting 60fps in that game. the 8400gs would easily beat the 9700 pro. my earlier point was making a connection between the 8 series and 6 series. it was well known that 6600gt and ati 9800 were very close. well an 8400gs is about the same as 6600gt. i already said that buy you missed I guess.

Perhaps you didn't hear me clearly. I HAD 9700PRO and PLAYED HALF LIFE 2 WITH IT and GOT an average of 60fps IN THAT GAME @ 1024x768. I'm not sure if I was using AA but I do remember playing that game on my 9700pro @ that resolution.

If you don't believe it read a review about 9700pro and half life 2. Anandtech did benchmarks themselves and they were getting 100fps with 9700pro.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2281&p=4

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

Originally posted by: toyota
you are wrong, read your own link to the wiki page. the initial 8400gs had 16sp.

The Wikipedia page I linked to never mentions SP's for the 8400GS, it merely mentions there were two 8400GS versions. This specifies the configuration that was used for each of the two versions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C...ce_8_.288xxx.29_series

yes your original page DID list the number of sp so look at it again. the original g86 retail cards were 16sp. some of the oem 8400gs cards were 8sp and now that i think about i do remember some article about that. anyway yeah it is possible to end up with an 8sp 8400gs but the original retail cards were 16sp.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Azn
I think a 9700pro is roughly 8500gt performance levels.

nope. the 8500gt after driver improvements was faster than a 6600gt. a 6600gt was slightly faster than a 9800xt so a 8500gt would be noticeably faster than a 9700 pro.

No it wasn't. A 6600gt is roughly the same as 9700pro.

Knowing Nvidia they have crappy support for older hardware and driver improvements for newish products. That's always been the case with Nvidia.

Would you mind posting a link of this 8500gt beating 6600gt?

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: toyota

Originally posted by: Azn
http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1240&pageID=4553

Anyway a ION is based on 8400GS core but it's still onboard video that has to share memory bandwidth with system memory. What does that mean? It's still slower than 8400gs.

Here we have Bjorn3d with a 8400gs review. Getting 37fps in half life @ 1024x768. A 9700pro got at least 60fps in that game. I know. I used to have one and played half life 2 with it.

thats HL2 Episode 2 and a 9700 would not come close to getting 60fps in that game. the 8400gs would easily beat the 9700 pro. my earlier point was making a connection between the 8 series and 6 series. it was well known that 6600gt and ati 9800 were very close. well an 8400gs is about the same as 6600gt. i already said that buy you missed I guess.

Perhaps you didn't hear me clearly. I HAD 9700PRO and PLAYED HALF LIFE 2 WITH IT and GOT an average of 60fps IN THAT GAME @ 1024x768. I'm not sure if I was using AA but I do remember playing that game on my 9700pro @ that resolution.

If you don't believe it read a review about 9700pro and half life 2. Anandtech did benchmarks themselves and they were getting 100fps with 9700pro.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2281&p=4

so you are meaning to say that you got 60fps in Half Life 2 Episode 2 because you keep saying Half Life 2? see the confusion.