Nvidia feels small compared to Intel/AMD

[JPB]

FEAR or Countdown to extintion?

Nvidia fears Intel and AMD and especially for its future and this is what it passed to its partners. The company is doing everything possible to educate its partners and customers about the importance of graphics as this is the company's only chance. Nvidia wants to take the power of the CPU and to focus customer?s minds on graphics.

Nvidia showed many of its partners that even with a low end CPU you will gain a lot if you simply plug in a better graphics card.

Nvidia doesn?t plan to make a CPU, but AMD and Intel will both soon have graphics, they already have a solid chipset business, 30+ years of CPU experience and this is something that Nvidia cannot compete with.

Intel is preaching that OEMs and System integrators should use its platform and Centrino is one of the most successful things that Intel ever did. AMD also has this platform concept and by the time, there won?t be much space in the chipset business for Nvidia as Intel and AMD simply don?t want it around.

More than ever Nvidia cannot afford to lose to ATI, as this would be a complete disaster for Graphzilla.

FEAR or Countdown to extintion?

 

[AzN]

Nvidia is small potatoes to Intel most definitely.

 

[AmberClad]

The INQ (ugh...) seems to think the same thing.

insisted it is Nvidia which will become the new AMD owner: the market cap is twice right now, and, once Intel gets its discrete CPUs off the ground late next year, the Nvidians will be squeezed between Intel with its CPUs and GPUs, and AMD with its CPUs and GPUs.

 

[MarcVenice]

How are ATI's sales of their 1xxx and 2xxx line, compared to nvidia's sales of the 7xxx and 8xxx line? I wonder, and, AMD isn't really in a position AMD to get rid of the competition.

 

[Genx87]

Their fears arent unwarranted. With a common platform Intel and AMD can simply push Nvidia out of the majority of the market, relegating them to high end gaming graphics. High end gaming graphics are high margins but I dont know how much money they make from those sales. The major revenue sources are from the 50-200 dollar range.

If you notice a lot of Dell machines come with onboard graphics from Intel. Expect this to start happening with AMD machines as well.

 

[lavaheadache]

I t will be a sad day for the computer industry and us gamers if Nvidia was out of the picture.

 

[NanoStuff]

Originally posted by: Genx87
Their fears arent unwarranted. With a common platform Intel and AMD can simply push Nvidia out of the majority of the market, relegating them to high end gaming graphics.

I don't know where you got that idea. Eliminating the traditional graphics bus and having direct architectural integration of the GPU isn't just for grandma and grandpa. There's no way even a high end card would be able to compete. Particularly when you consider the superior manufacturing process resources AMD and particularly Intel have available that nVidia does not have.

I really cannot see where nVidia is going to go after the GeForce 9. They will have to get very clever.

 

[terentenet]

I don't think Nvidia will go anywhere. They will remain on the market and they will survive. The market needs discrete graphics and that's where Nvidia comes in. There's no way an integrated GPU by Intel or AMD can match the power of a discrete GPU.
That's how Creative survives, even having the worst drivers....

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: terentenet
I don't think Nvidia will go anywhere. They will remain on the market and they will survive. The market needs discrete graphics and that's where Nvidia comes in. There's no way an integrated GPU by Intel or AMD can match the power of a discrete GPU.
That's how Creative survives, even having the worst drivers....

Yeah but Creative is struggling massively and probably won't survive but a couple more years. Discrete sound chips are dead.

 

[AzN]

The market doesn't need discrete graphics market. It was needed when PC industry had nothing. That's when 3dfx came in and floored the gamers giving us basic 3d with proprietary glide.

This integrated fusion and Intel counterpart is supposed to cure most of the medium ranged graphics line making it a standard for the PC industry. Nvidia will always have a market and so will AMD with their higher end cards but Nvidia will lose huge market.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

This is a bit of a side issue, but can Nvidia make enough profit on graphics chips for consoles to offset losses in the PC market? Even though it has to compete with AMD/Ati in that market? What about profits Nvidia makes on graphics for PDAs and mobile phones?

I know high end PC graphics cards are a niche market, but I guess my main question is, can Nvidia's other products generate enough profit to offset losses in the PC market?

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
This is a bit of a side issue, but can Nvidia make enough profit on graphics chips for consoles to offset losses in the PC market? Even though it has to compete with AMD/Ati in that market? What about profits Nvidia makes on graphics for PDAs and mobile phones?

I know high end PC graphics cards are a niche market, but I guess my main question is, can Nvidia's other products generate enough profit to offset losses in the PC market?

don't think so, iirc, isn't the WII gpu made by ATI? and isn't wii sales > xbox & ps3?

 

[JPB]

Yea, The WII has ATI gpu ( Hollywood ) as does the Xbox 360 ( Xenos )

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
This is a bit of a side issue, but can Nvidia make enough profit on graphics chips for consoles to offset losses in the PC market? Even though it has to compete with AMD/Ati in that market? What about profits Nvidia makes on graphics for PDAs and mobile phones?

I know high end PC graphics cards are a niche market, but I guess my main question is, can Nvidia's other products generate enough profit to offset losses in the PC market?

PDA is a niche market, PC is not although the extreme uber graphic cards are. Mainstream graphic cards make the most money. That's where AMD and Intel is going to control. Nvidia is going to lose a lot of market share will be cut and dry unless they come up with a platform like Intel or AMD and succeed which is unlikely. PS3 isn't doing too great either.

 

[imported_maxdad007]

I think it will be a sad day for all of us if this were to really happen. I know I will be crossing my fingers and toes that there will be PC games out there that will be good enough for them to keep making cards epople will need. Maybe this will now be a 3 horse race once Intel enters in.

 

[InflatableBuddha]

Originally posted by: JPB
Yea, The WII has ATI gpu ( Hollywood ) as does the Xbox 360 ( Xenos )

Good point - the PS3 has an Nvidia gpu and it's tanking compared to the Wii and Xbox 360.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: InflatableBuddha
This is a bit of a side issue, but can Nvidia make enough profit on graphics chips for consoles to offset losses in the PC market? Even though it has to compete with AMD/Ati in that market? What about profits Nvidia makes on graphics for PDAs and mobile phones?

I know high end PC graphics cards are a niche market, but I guess my main question is, can Nvidia's other products generate enough profit to offset losses in the PC market?

PDA is a niche market, PC is not although the extreme uber graphic cards are. Mainstream graphic cards make the most money. That's where AMD and Intel is going to control. Nvidia is going to lose a lot of market share will be cut and dry unless they come up with a platform like Intel or AMD and succeed which is unlikely. PS3 isn't doing too great either.

Did nvidia EVER really have a signifigant chunk of the integrated market though? I really don't think thats their break and butter myself. Nvidia seems to have had some limited success with the integrated stuff on AMD platforms...but I don't really feel like that every even approached a large amount of their revenue.

I don't think discrete graphics are going anywhere. You're not going to see intel, AMD, or Nvidia releasing motherboards with a 8800GTS implanted into them. They could probably save costs and maybe leverage a unique bus by doing it...but the world wants cheap motherboards and all making an expensive motherboard with awesome onboard graphics will do is make the Dells of the world buy some one else's motherboards. And then those people will want to upgrade their video cards. I mean, everyone pretty much knows winning the speed race in integrated graphics is kind of a waste of time. The fastest integrated card is still to slow to do anything with.

On the flip side of the coin, nvidia is right with some of their statements. The CPU doesn't really matter much anymore. Look at some bioshock benchmarks...cheap ass dual cores do almost as well as $1000 ones. For gaming and high performance, you've basically got your awesome GPU powerhouse, and a general purpose system clinging to it to do the bitch work. (Thats an exaggeration, but the point remains the real work gets done by the GPU now for games) AMD and Intel have already started making moves on this, because I think they know they've become somewhat irrelevant for the high end rig and that the low end is just a commodity item where performance increases are largely unnoticed.

Its a time of uncertainty though. And nvidia is right to be scared. Nvidia still has to go through intel or AMD to get their, and both have the ability to lock them out of the castle at least somewhat. The good news for them is Intel is way behind and has to enter their territory. And AMD is in such terrible shape that the ATI component will be lucky to cling to the side of the bowl while AMD gets flushed. But it's tough seas to natigate for them.

 

[AzN]

Yeah I agree with what you said but the mass doesn't buy uber high end cards like 8800gts. They buy medium ranged graphics card and don't upgrade until they buy a new computer which AMD and Intel is going to take huge chunks off of Nvidia.

Nvidia will always have their high end cards but AMD is also competing in the sector. Now Intel is going to join in. It's bad for Nvidia either way.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: JPB
Yea, The WII has ATI gpu ( Hollywood ) as does the Xbox 360 ( Xenos )

Small correction, the 360 has an ATI designed GPU. They don't actually buy the chips from ATI.

 

[JPB]

How is that a correction ? I never said they bought it from ATI, I just referred to....it is ATI's chip.

 

[Phynaz]

Originally posted by: JPB
How is that a correction ? I never said they bought it from ATI, I just referred to....it is ATI's chip.

Technically it's Microsoft's chip.

If I pay you to design a chair, it doesn't make it "your" chair.

 

[JPB]

Now that was a bit clearer, lol. I see what your saying, Microsoft paid ATI to design it. Got confused there for a sec, and somehow thought ATI took it upon themselves to design it then sell it to them. IDK. Anyway, I def see what your saying now, and yes....you are correct my friend

 

[nitromullet]

This whole thing is pretty interesting. I guess NVIDIA needs to make sure that it has the best damn gpu out there for the near future. Honestly, I think it will take Intel a few generations of producing an actual gpu/video card product before they catch up.

As far as other markets go, I actually sort of wish that NVIDIA would leave the chipset space... AMD hopefully will no longer really need nForce to compete and, NVIDIA's actions as a chipset maker have really only served to break compatibility. There is no technological reason that SLI doesn't work on Intel and AMD/ATI dual PCIe chipsets, but they have created artificial impediments which I disagree with. I know these companies are competitors, but system stability, compatibility, and interoperability should be paramount. It is the one major thing that the 'Wintel' PC has over other, more proprietary architectures. Also, the dual video card realm is the only area that NVIDIA clearly leads in market share, and if their tactics in this area are indicative of what kind of company they are, you can see why Intel and AMD wouldn't want to even try to play nice with them in the areas they lead in.

 

[ronnn]

Its a no brainer. Companies are getting bigger and merging. Nvidia will likely have to pick their poison. Merge to expand, or buy or sell to amd/intel. Lets hope they release a few more very good cards before this happens.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Azn
Yeah I agree with what you said but the mass doesn't buy uber high end cards like 8800gts. They buy medium ranged graphics card and don't upgrade until they buy a new computer which AMD and Intel is going to take huge chunks off of Nvidia.

Nvidia will always have their high end cards but AMD is also competing in the sector. Now Intel is going to join in. It's bad for Nvidia either way.

True enough. But I still don't think nvidia has a big stake in the integrated market. They've made some inroads, but I if it dried up they would survive. Intel controls that chipset market. The question is if intel/amd can turn that integrated solution into something people will buy. They've spent a lot of time convincing people that more processor speed is king...faster integrated graphics is a more abstract concept.

I agree with nitromullet though that Intel is going to need at least a few generations before they have something competitive. Intel has a lot of resources, but I don't think they'll be able to get it right the first time.