Nvidia DX11 AA-bits petition

[boxleitnerb]

As many of you know, Nvidia has AA-bits that can be used to force antialiasing in (some) games where AA is not natively supported or to improve the quality of AA vs. the ingame solution.

The problem: These bits are only available for DX9. There is a handful of DX10 games with predefined bits and for DX11 there is nothing. Many DX10/11 games exhibit visible aliasing even when the ingame-AA is enhanced to SGSSAA since we can no longer influence how and where the game applies antialiasing.

Therefore a petition was started today to get Nvidia to make efforts to supply those AA-bits for DX10/11, too.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/...for-directx-11-anti-aliasing-driver-profiles/

Pictures illustrating the shortcomings of ingame-AA and the possibilities of force AA are available in the petition thread over at Nvidia forums.
Your support of this petition would be greatly appreciated.

 

[lagokc]

Seriously? Jaggies bother you that much? Kids these days. You kids haven't seen real jaggies. Let me tell you, back in my day the jaggies were so big that they were planned into the design of monsters and levels and that's how we liked it.

 

[blackened23]

Seriously? Jaggies bother you that much? Kids these days. You kids haven't seen real jaggies. Let me tell you, back in my day the jaggies were so big that they were planned into the design of monsters and levels and that's how we liked it.

Thanks for sharing

 

[cmdrdredd]

Is there much that Nvidia can do about it? Do AAbits even work on post process stuff?

 

[BallaTheFeared]

Seriously? Jaggies bother you that much? Kids these days. You kids haven't seen real jaggies. Let me tell you, back in my day the jaggies were so big that they were planned into the design of monsters and levels and that's how we liked it.

lol :thumbsup:

 

[NTMBK]

As many of you know, Nvidia has AA-bits that can be used to force antialiasing in (some) games where AA is not natively supported or to improve the quality of AA vs. the ingame solution.

The problem: These bits are only available for DX9. There is a handful of DX10 games with predefined bits and for DX11 there is nothing. Many DX10/11 games exhibit visible aliasing even when the ingame-AA is enhanced to SGSSAA since we can no longer influence how and where the game applies antialiasing.

Therefore a petition was started today to get Nvidia to make efforts to supply those AA-bits for DX10/11, too.
https://forums.geforce.com/default/...for-directx-11-anti-aliasing-driver-profiles/

Pictures illustrating the shortcomings of ingame-AA and the possibilities of force AA are available in the petition thread over at Nvidia forums.
Your support of this petition would be greatly appreciated.

As many of you know, corporations generally ignore online petitions.

 

[bystander36]

If they can do it, it would be great, but AMD has the same issue with DX11 as Nvidia does. That is one of the reasons why MLAA and FXAA were created.

 

[jacktesterson]

Seriously? Jaggies bother you that much? Kids these days. You kids haven't seen real jaggies. Let me tell you, back in my day the jaggies were so big that they were planned into the design of monsters and levels and that's how we liked it.

this

its a game

 

[bystander36]

Back in the day, dev's used sprites, which could be designed to reduce jaggies from the get go, removing any need for AA. Since 3D started being used, AA has been needed to clean up jaggies. Sure you could ignore them, but as time goes on, we have expected to see improvements.

 

[SirPauly]

As many of you know, corporations generally ignore online petitions.

Generally, maybe, but the community created one about having more flexibility with lod with SGSSAA!

Following repeated calls from users for a solution, we silently introduced an automatic LOD Bias feature in last month’s 310.33 beta driver, which we’re pleased to officially announce today.

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/nvidia-geforce-310-54-beta-drivers-released

 

[cmdrdredd]

Back in the day, dev's used sprites, which could be designed to reduce jaggies from the get go, removing any need for AA. Since 3D started being used, AA has been needed to clean up jaggies. Sure you could ignore them, but as time goes on, we have expected to see improvements.

No...that ain't it pal.

I'm just spoiled. Yep I admit it. I used to be able to crank out 8x AA in a game and poof...everything looked smooth. Now? Well, it's either deal with the crawlers on the edge of everything or smear vasoline on my glasses so everything sort of blurs together like yesterday's soup.

No seriously...I just got spoiled a bit. I can deal with it though, but thanks to my resolution I don't notice jagged edges nearly as much as 1080p.

 

[SirPauly]

I knew I would see Blaire in the petition!

 

[bystander36]

No...that ain't it pal.

I'm just spoiled. Yep I admit it. I used to be able to crank out 8x AA in a game and poof...everything looked smooth. Now? Well, it's either deal with the crawlers on the edge of everything or smear vasoline on my glasses so everything sort of blurs together like yesterday's soup.

No seriously...I just got spoiled a bit. I can deal with it though, but thanks to my resolution I don't notice jagged edges nearly as much as 1080p.

I'm not sure how your post lined up with mine. With sprites, what was done prior to 3D, an image was created that was never changed, and was just moved around the screen, so AA would not be useful if the dev created the sprite with AA built in.

Anyways, 8x AA (assuming MSAA here) never worked well over foliage and some textures. All 8x AA does is fix edges of objects. Unless you seriously used 8x SSAA, which is highly unlikely for most games. Though in the earlier days, games used far less foliage and transparent textures.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I'm not sure how your post lined up with mine. With sprites, what was done prior to 3D, an image was created that was never changed, and was just moved around the screen, so AA would not be useful if the dev created the sprite with AA built in.

Anyways, 8x AA (assuming MSAA here) never worked well over foliage and some textures. All 8x AA does is fix edges of objects. Unless you seriously used 8x SSAA, which is highly unlikely for most games. Though in the earlier days, games used far less foliage and transparent textures.

You said we have expected improvements. That's not it. I got spoiled by being able to just crank AA to remove any jaggies that might crop up. Now we have no option unless we want blur filters lol. Granted FXAA injectors with sharpen filters are pretty good.

 

[bystander36]

Yah, I guess we have. Though I've been using 3D Vision mostly any more, so aliasing doesn't bother me as much.

 

[Nintendesert]

Seriously? Jaggies bother you that much? Kids these days. You kids haven't seen real jaggies. Let me tell you, back in my day the jaggies were so big that they were planned into the design of monsters and levels and that's how we liked it.

:biggrin:

 

[Lavans]

I suspect DX11 bits will become more common when DX11 actually becomes mainstream. There are a few DX11 bits as is, so its likely just a matter of time.

Also, DX11=/=post processing, and post processing=/=AA (or lack there of), so I don't know where that idea came from.

 

[bystander36]

I suspect DX11 bits will become more common when DX11 actually becomes mainstream. There are a few DX11 bits as is, so its likely just a matter of time.

Also, DX11=/=post processing, and post processing=/=AA (or lack there of), so I don't know where that idea came from.

I don't know where that was even brought up.

 

[lagokc]

Thanks for sharing

And get off my lawn!

 

[Lavans]

I don't know where that was even brought up.

See below

Is there much that Nvidia can do about it? Do AAbits even work on post process stuff?

If they can do it, it would be great, but AMD has the same issue with DX11 as Nvidia does. That is one of the reasons why MLAA and FXAA were created.

 

[bystander36]

The idea is, in the last few years, since DX11 came out, more and more games do not support any form of AA. This is at least in part why AMD first released MLAA and Nvidia came out with FXAA later. And whether or not you consider those AA, Intel, AMD and Nvidia do, so as long as the industry leaders calls it AA, I will too.

 

[CakeMonster]

It is AA according to any dictionary definition. Its just that since AA was introduced in mainstream graphics cards 10 years ago, we've been expecting MSAA or SSAA. The step down in quality with still accelerating hardware capabilities is disappointing to most enthusiast pc gamers.

 

[boxleitnerb]

As many of you know, corporations generally ignore online petitions.

The LOD adjustment for D10/11 petition worked

 

[PowerK]

The LOD adjustment for D10/11 petition worked

Indeed. It worked great. I hope Nvidia listens to this, again.

 

[Lavans]

The idea is, in the last few years, since DX11 came out, more and more games do not support any form of AA.

That's not exactly true. A good number of games since the start of the DX11 era does support hardware AA, although some require compatibility to be enabled for it. It's only games that utilize a certain type of deferred rendering that AA is incompatible, even with tweaked AA bits. This is an issue only with the DX9 API. DX11 natively supports hardware AA, even in games with deferred rendering. Battlefield Bad Company 2 and Metro 2033 are two great examples of early DX11 games that has MSAA support when in DX11 mode, but no hardware AA support when in DX9.

This is at least in part why AMD first released MLAA and Nvidia came out with FXAA later. And whether or not you consider those AA, Intel, AMD and Nvidia do, so as long as the industry leaders calls it AA, I will too.

This is partly true. Games that have FXAA/MLAA coded into the engine directly are rare. I can probably count the games with in game FXAA/MLAA options with just two hands. Likelihood is that you'll end up using an injector or adjusting driver settings to enable it. However, while one part of post-AA's existence is to offer an AA "solution" to games that don't have a hardware AA support, even when setting compatibility bits, there is a much larger reason behind the innovation of post-AA. The biggest benefit to post-AA is that it's far less computationally expensive to run than hardware AA, and is generally intended for low spec systems. In fact, MLAA first made its appearance in console games before AMD ever opened it to the PC market.