NVIDIA drivers - taking a step backwards

[SunnyD]

You all know the issue with video drivers and laptops... or lack thereof. I've just about had it with NVIDIA and their "support" for their mobile products. It's bad enough to have to hack drivers every time a new version comes out, but now they seem to be going backwards.

For the first time in 6 months, I decided to try the latest WHQL from NVIDIA on my Dell D820 (since Dell never updates drivers it seems) and the Quadro NVS 120M in it. Downloaded the 175.16's, modded the inf file, and let it rip. What happened? Nothing. The driver installed, Vista rebooted, and the machine comes up in glorious 640x480, device manager showing that the video driver failed to load at boot.

If the laptop manufacturers aren't going to put the pressure on NVIDIA to support their video products in their so-called "Universal Drivers"... then who is?

/rant

 

[Gamingphreek]

Ummm if you have to hack an inf file to get the drivers to work, then you aren't using the correct driver.

That being said, I do agree that Nvidia's once stellar drivers aren't as good as they used to be. The interface is nice and all, but they are ignoring a few things. The 7900GT's still do not work in Vista completely (I had to buy an 8800GT 😛 ) and they are completely ignoring XP users.

-Kevin

Edit: Also from research, this seems like it is Dell's issue and not Nvidias. Seems Nvidia is blocked from enabling support in their drivers for it.

 

[Quiksilver]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ummm if you have to hack an inf file to get the drivers to work, then you aren't using the correct driver.

This. Or Your using a beta driver.

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ummm if you have to hack an inf file to get the drivers to work, then you aren't using the correct driver.

That being said, I do agree that Nvidia's once stellar drivers aren't as good as they used to be. The interface is nice and all, but they are ignoring a few things. The 7900GT's still do not work in Vista completely (I had to buy an 8800GT 😛 ) and they are completely ignoring XP users.

-Kevin

Editing the inf file is common procedure for getting new drivers to work on abandoned chips from nvidia. They almost always all work, you just have to tell the drivers they are allowed to work.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
You all know the issue with video drivers and laptops... or lack thereof. I've just about had it with NVIDIA and their "support" for their mobile products. It's bad enough to have to hack drivers every time a new version comes out, but now they seem to be going backwards.

For the first time in 6 months, I decided to try the latest WHQL from NVIDIA on my Dell D820 (since Dell never updates drivers it seems) and the Quadro NVS 120M in it. Downloaded the 175.16's, modded the inf file, and let it rip. What happened? Nothing. The driver installed, Vista rebooted, and the machine comes up in glorious 640x480, device manager showing that the video driver failed to load at boot.

If the laptop manufacturers aren't going to put the pressure on NVIDIA to support their video products in their so-called "Universal Drivers"... then who is?

/rant

Use the latest drivers from the manufacturer of the laptop. Dell. Even if they are a year old.
Can I ask: Were the drivers you were using prior to your itch to update, working fine?
If not, I can understand you trying new ones (albeit not the right ones), but if so, why did you mess with a good thing?

Here is your correct driver: Dell D820 NVS 120M 11/07

Or if you're using Vista 64: Dell D820 NVS 120M Vista 64

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ummm if you have to hack an inf file to get the drivers to work, then you aren't using the correct driver.

That being said, I do agree that Nvidia's once stellar drivers aren't as good as they used to be. The interface is nice and all, but they are ignoring a few things. The 7900GT's still do not work in Vista completely (I had to buy an 8800GT 😛 ) and they are completely ignoring XP users.

-Kevin

Edit: Also from research, this seems like it is Dell's issue and not Nvidias. Seems Nvidia is blocked from enabling support in their drivers for it.

"Hacking" inf files have become commonplace since NVIDIA's drivers used to support every chip they made officially, but have since become lax. Trying to use drivers from a manufacturer - particularly laptop manufacturer is by far NOT using the correct driver.

NVIDIA isn't blocked from doing anything. They're using the excuse that the laptop is tied to a "proprietary display" (which all it is is an LCD panel connected via DVI... nothing special there) to justify not putting out driver updates themselves.

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Use the latest drivers from the manufacturer of the laptop. Dell. Even if they are a year old.
Can I ask: Were the drivers you were using prior to your itch to update, working fine?
If not, I can understand you trying new ones (albeit not the right ones), but if so, why did you mess with a good thing?

Here is your correct driver: Dell D820 NVS 120M 11/07

Or if you're using Vista 64: Dell D820 NVS 120M Vista 64

Again... this is just plain stupid. Why am I supposed to use a 7 month old driver? Particularly with Vista? We start going backwards in driver revisions and we start using crappier, unoptimized drivers - and even more so start using drivers that cause more problems with Vista than they fix.

And again, that removes the whole unified driver concept that they're trying to push.

 

[postmortemIA]

Unified concept is only for desktop - I'm not defending them, but regular drivers never worked out of box for laptop users.

Ever heard of site laptopvideo2go.com? they'll do modding for you.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Again... this is just plain stupid. Why am I supposed to use a 7 month old driver? Particularly with Vista? We start going backwards in driver revisions and we start using crappier, unoptimized drivers - and even more so start using drivers that cause more problems with Vista than they fix.

And again, that removes the whole unified driver concept that they're trying to push.

Because they work?

Use the drivers that are meant to be used on your system. End of story. You bring on your own headaches here. Unbelievable.

 

[n7]

While it makes sense using the latest official driver in theory, that only works in actuality if the officials are actually decent drivers.
Considering the issues that tend to crop up between releases of official nV drivers, i can understand why the OP would want to run newer ones.

As an example, if i'd had to use the 169.25s till the recent release of their official 175.16 for my card, i would have gotten rid of my GTX months ago, since it took them almost half a year to update their officials to something that actually works properly in UT3.

Just pointing out that there are two sides to this keys.

Granted, if there's nothing wrong with the last officials for his card, i'm not sure why the OP is upset.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Again... this is just plain stupid. Why am I supposed to use a 7 month old driver? Particularly with Vista? We start going backwards in driver revisions and we start using crappier, unoptimized drivers - and even more so start using drivers that cause more problems with Vista than they fix.

And again, that removes the whole unified driver concept that they're trying to push.

Because they work?

Use the drivers that are meant to be used on your system. End of story. You bring on your own headaches here. Unbelievable.

Coming from a moderator and an elite member... ohhhh wait, I forgot keys joined the green squad... that's why we're dealing with the sarcastic quips here.

"Because they work?"

No... they don't, otherwise I wouldn't have this problem. Older drivers are unstable and have issues all their own, ESPECIALLY in Vista. Hell, you of all people should know that, except that you're going to try to defend NVIDIA at all costs.

Tell you what keys, at least when I mentioned this to Rollo several months back, he was willing to pass it along to the boys at green HQ. Why don't you make yourself useful and reiterate this to them too... Support your m'f'n hardware. END OF STORY.

 

[ghost recon88]

It's a well known fact that people who want video performance possible out of their laptop hack the latest desktop drivers nVidia puts out by changing the .inf to support their models and ID numbers. The drivers nVidia puts out can work on any chip, nVidia just chooses not to implement mobile support in them, and instead forces users to modify them if they want the best performance. I remember having to hack the 169.21 driver set back when I had a 7900GTX Go.

To the OP, I assume you already know about notebookforums.com and LaptopVideo2Go? Check this thread here for pre-modded 175.16 drivers, http://www.notebookforums.com/thread216838.html.

 

[Syntax Error]

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ummm if you have to hack an inf file to get the drivers to work, then you aren't using the correct driver.

On laptops, you do. For recent drivers for 8-series mobile cards, you have to do the .inf hack.

It's ridiculous.

 

[Fallen Kell]

The reason Nvidia doesn't support their mobile line is due to so many different variants that the laptop integrators use. You can and will see multiple laptops with the exact same Nvidia graphics chip where one has a 128 bit memory bus, another has a 256 bit, and another has a 512 bit... You will see the laptops with half their shader units turned off, others with 2/3rds on, etc., etc.... And I am not talking about seeing different chips like the difference between a 8800GT or a 8800GTX, or 8800GS or 8600GT. I mean the exact same 8800M chip. Just one chip, about 10-20 different possible configurations. While I havn't bought a laptop in a while (and I mean a while), I had to email and call tech support at the different manufacturers to get the real deal on how their laptop's GPU was setup because I knew I wanted the one which used all the features, not a stripped down one. I went through 6 different companies that all advertised having that particular GPU, before I found one which had enabled all the features and had the full memory bandwidth, etc., that the gpu was capable of using. The laptop manufacturers don't mind because they get to advertise having the "high end" GPU, even if they are only giving you a computer which uses 1/4 of the capability of that GPU.

Why do you see this? Because the laptop in question might not have the power or cooling or space to use all the features for that particular design. We are not talking about a separate board half the time. We are talking about a custom motherboard with that graphics gpu embedded right into it like an integrated. Nvidia sets up their mobile gpu's so that the integrators have this huge amount of flexibility so that they will be able to use the chip in many more laptop designs and form factors. The downside of this is that as a result, sometimes they need custom drivers to support the changes that were made for that specific build, and Nvidia does not want to be on the hook for having to test their new drivers on all those different configurations during revision testing. Nvidia instead leaves that task up to the laptop manufacturer. But as you can see, the laptop manufacturer only does this for so long because, hey, they already have your money right? This is one of the things that makes a difference between the good laptop manufacturers and the poor ones, product lifetime support and driver updates. In most cases, you really do get what you pay for in laptops.

If you really want good support, you are going to have to pay for it from the high end manufacturers. I am talking about places like Voodoo, or Falcon Northwest. But don't expect to get much for under $3500 at these places, and the high end is usually in the $6000-8000 range.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Again... this is just plain stupid. Why am I supposed to use a 7 month old driver? Particularly with Vista? We start going backwards in driver revisions and we start using crappier, unoptimized drivers - and even more so start using drivers that cause more problems with Vista than they fix.

And again, that removes the whole unified driver concept that they're trying to push.

Because they work?

Use the drivers that are meant to be used on your system. End of story. You bring on your own headaches here. Unbelievable.

Coming from a moderator and an elite member... ohhhh wait, I forgot keys joined the green squad... that's why we're dealing with the sarcastic quips here.

"Because they work?"

No... they don't, otherwise I wouldn't have this problem. Older drivers are unstable and have issues all their own, ESPECIALLY in Vista. Hell, you of all people should know that, except that you're going to try to defend NVIDIA at all costs.

Tell you what keys, at least when I mentioned this to Rollo several months back, he was willing to pass it along to the boys at green HQ. Why don't you make yourself useful and reiterate this to them too... Support your m'f'n hardware. END OF STORY.

Into labels are we? Yeah ok Sunny. But if you noticed, in this post was the very first time in this thread that you said your old driver DIDNT work. BECAUSE, Up to this point, I thought I was dealing with somebody who just decided to update to a driver just for the sake of updating a driver.
See where I'm going with this? Then you get rowdy. Yeah, people skills are a kickin!!

 

[LOUISSSSS]

but aren't users encouraged to always use updated drivers? i swore i've heard this hundreds of times

 

[golem]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
You all know the issue with video drivers and laptops... or lack thereof. I've just about had it with NVIDIA and their "support" for their mobile products. It's bad enough to have to hack drivers every time a new version comes out, but now they seem to be going backwards.

For the first time in 6 months, I decided to try the latest WHQL from NVIDIA on my Dell D820 (since Dell never updates drivers it seems) and the Quadro NVS 120M in it. Downloaded the 175.16's, modded the inf file, and let it rip. What happened? Nothing. The driver installed, Vista rebooted, and the machine comes up in glorious 640x480, device manager showing that the video driver failed to load at boot.

If the laptop manufacturers aren't going to put the pressure on NVIDIA to support their video products in their so-called "Universal Drivers"... then who is?

/rant

When you buy a laptop. It's the manufacturer of the whole laptop that is responsible for the parts that make up it's whole. You don't go to the maker of the CPU or Hard drive for warranty/technical support, or at least your not supposed to.

You didn't buy it from them, you bought it from Dell and the component manufacturers don't want the cost of dealing with you. It's Dell responsibility to provide drivers for your laptop, not Nvidia, or Intel or whoever makes the components.

Read Fallen Kell's response a few post up. It makes perfect sense.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Oh, and for a good resource, I like using http://www.laptopvideo2go.com for finding updated drivers. They do a lot of work in this area and have good resources in terms of getting a proper inf file. Personally I wouldn't try hacking the driver yourself and only use ones that are available from there as they have had a lot of testing done by the community and site itself. Remember, each and every version may or may not work properly with your board, and laptopvideo2go will usually only post versions that they have been able to get working correctly with the mobile versions of the GPUs.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
but aren't users encouraged to always use updated drivers? i swore i've heard this hundreds of times

Usually. But most often said when a user is having a problem that can't be explained right away. We try to get the drivers all up to date when troubleshooting.

Fallen Kell I think hit the nail on the head with his very informative post above.
It's the long version of what I was trying to relay to Sunny. Use the drivers from your manufacturer. Dell quite often has it's own proprietary setups even though using Intel/Nvidia/or ATI graphics chips. So, there drivers are written specifically for their setups.
But everything was stupid.

 

[ChaosDivine]

Yeah its backwards alright, but for a different reason : YUV bug (videos looked washed out) :|

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Gamingphreek
Ummm if you have to hack an inf file to get the drivers to work, then you aren't using the correct driver.

That being said, I do agree that Nvidia's once stellar drivers aren't as good as they used to be. The interface is nice and all, but they are ignoring a few things. The 7900GT's still do not work in Vista completely (I had to buy an 8800GT 😛 ) and they are completely ignoring XP users.

-Kevin

Edit: Also from research, this seems like it is Dell's issue and not Nvidias. Seems Nvidia is blocked from enabling support in their drivers for it.

"Hacking" inf files have become commonplace since NVIDIA's drivers used to support every chip they made officially, but have since become lax. Trying to use drivers from a manufacturer - particularly laptop manufacturer is by far NOT using the correct driver.

NVIDIA isn't blocked from doing anything. They're using the excuse that the laptop is tied to a "proprietary display" (which all it is is an LCD panel connected via DVI... nothing special there) to justify not putting out driver updates themselves.

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Use the latest drivers from the manufacturer of the laptop. Dell. Even if they are a year old.
Can I ask: Were the drivers you were using prior to your itch to update, working fine?
If not, I can understand you trying new ones (albeit not the right ones), but if so, why did you mess with a good thing?

Here is your correct driver: Dell D820 NVS 120M 11/07

Or if you're using Vista 64: Dell D820 NVS 120M Vista 64

Again... this is just plain stupid. Why am I supposed to use a 7 month old driver? Particularly with Vista? We start going backwards in driver revisions and we start using crappier, unoptimized drivers - and even more so start using drivers that cause more problems with Vista than they fix.

And again, that removes the whole unified driver concept that they're trying to push.

I have a Dell laptop too ( Nvidia 8600m GT )and yes Dell Nvidia driver updates are very slow,I just go to LaptopVideo2Go and use their drivers with modded inf file,yes sometimes its trial and error on the best driver for your laptop,however once you find the right driver its worth the hassle.

The 7900GT's still do not work in Vista completely (I had to buy an 8800GT 😛 ) and they are completely ignoring XP users.

My 7800GT has had no issues with Vista x64 that I'm aware of....I do think Nvidia should release more frequent updates like ATI/AMD,I'm getting a HD4850 in a few weeks time and looking forward to the regular driver updates they have.

Side note : In Vista via reliability performance monitor you can see what has caused any crashes/issues,especially if its a recent new driver you have installed.

I personally refuse to use the Dell Nvidia driver ,its too old even for latest version,LaptopVideo2Go has a nice full range of drivers with modded inf files,one I'm using is recent and working 100% solid on my Dell Laptop,not hard to change drivers if you do get crashes caused by modded drivers,LaptopVideo2Go do have a full range to try from.

 

[THUGSROOK]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
...my Dell D820...

your post lost all credibility right there.

did you even bother to uninstall them and try reinstalling them?
your problem was most likely from a bad uninstall, if you woulda reinstalled them they woulda worked.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK

Originally posted by: SunnyD
...my Dell D820...

your post lost all credibility right there.

did you even bother to uninstall them and try reinstalling them?
your problem was most likely from a bad uninstall, if you woulda reinstalled them they woulda worked.

How did I lose credibility there? You honestly think that just because I have a D820 that I don't know what I'm doing?

I'm guessing you also think it's a stock out-of-the-box OS install with all the additional garbage right? WRONG. Full hard drive wipe with a fresh Vista-only install when I set the machine up originally.

You seem to think I don't know what I'm doing to right? WRONG. I've been modding drivers for laptops for quite some time (a couple years now?) in order to get them to work. I prefer not to use prepackaged mods as they tend to shuffle different versions of files into a driver. I take whatever driver direct from the video manufacturer, modify the .inf file accordingly and let it rip.

You assume I didn't uninstall the old driver like I'm a moron or something. Let's see... change to Standard VGA Driver - check. Uninstall old NVIDIA driver package - check. Run pnputil -d to get rid of the precached OEM driver - check (Oh, bet you didn't know about that one did you). For the fun of it, run Driver Cleaner - check. Mod new driver and install - check.

Thanks for the concern, but I know what I'm doing.

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Into labels are we? Yeah ok Sunny. But if you noticed, in this post was the very first time in this thread that you said your old driver DIDNT work. BECAUSE, Up to this point, I thought I was dealing with somebody who just decided to update to a driver just for the sake of updating a driver.
See where I'm going with this? Then you get rowdy. Yeah, people skills are a kickin!!

I am into labels in the case of your reply - you harp on a non-issue. I go back to what LOUISSSSS posts - yes, people are indeed encouraged to update their drivers. You do realize that Dell isn't providing modified drivers right? They wait for NVIDIA to provide them, and then simply repackage them with their logo on it. Same with Gateway, etc. There's nothing different about NVIDIA supporting a mobile chip in this case. The only difference that I have ever seen (in one case) was that a vendor packaged a display driver that added a few extra power management options for the LCD - and that had nothing to do with the actual video driver.

Again, I ask - especially in the case of NVIDIA drivers and Vista... why the hell wouldn't someone want to update their drivers when possible?

Food for thought... my work laptop, running on XP mind you - a Gateway with a 7600 Go in it. The drivers available from Gateway are ... here, I'll copy it for you:

D00658-001-001.exe - Gateway Nvidia Video Driver version: 86.02
Supports: Windows XP
Note: This file contains the Windows XP display drivers for the Gateway notebook computer models listed below. This driver replaces file 8602.exe.
9/29/2006 29,700 KB

D00501-002-001.exe - Gateway Nvidia Video Driver Revision: 83.20
Supports: Windows XP
Note: This file contains the display drivers for a Gateway M685, MX8750, NX860 Series, or S7710N Series notebook computer in Windows XP.

Now explain to me why even NVIDIA shouldn't be upset over this?

 

[THUGSROOK]

how long have you been working on computers?

and this is new to you?

youre going off like a 13yo whos CS game keeps crashing.

you been doing this a long time?
then you know NV aint comin thru for you any time soon. hack up some driver sets and do your own testing.

 

[Genx87]

Laptop drivers have always been like this. I have an Inspiron 8200 from 2002 that requires dell drivers for the Nvidia GPU in it.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK
how long have you been working on computers?

and this is new to you?

youre going off like a 13yo whos CS game keeps crashing.

you been doing this a long time?
then you know NV aint comin thru for you any time soon. hack up some driver sets and do your own testing.

THe facts remain. Nvidia is ignoring their customers.