Nvidia buying AMD - can it happen?

[slackerinabox]

Just had the thought after reading of an exec leaving amd to work at Nvidia. Nvidia + x86 could be interesting, right?

 

[jpiniero]

The buyer loses the x86 license if AMD gets bought. AMD would have been bought a long time ago if that wasn't the case.

 

[Genx87]

I cant imagine Nvidia if they were to somehow get an x86 license would go head to head with Intel. Instead I would imagine they spin off what they can from the CPU division and utilize AMD patents to expand their portfolio into GPU, Mobile, and HPC.

At this point with the way the GPU market is split up. It may be a feasible merger in the eyes of regulators.

 

[turtile]

They would probably need to merge together and that would only make sense if AMD has a successful x86 product making good money. Otherwise, the GPU team would be redundant.

 

[podspi]

I don't think it will be happen, but I am sure they could get around any x86 poison pill provisions.

Heck, they could probably get Intel to agree to do it in the first place. Intel is the dominant player in the x86 market - it isn't illegal to be a monopoly, but it is illegal to monopolize. Such an action could (though IANAL) be construed as monopolizing.

 

[Phynaz]

AMD is poison right now. What would Nvidia have to gain? Take on several billion dollars of dept to hope you can compete with Intel? Nobody is going to do that.

 

[positivedoppler]

There are threads on this in the past.
http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...nge-of-control-terminates-agreement-for-both/
Both would lose their license and will be force to renegotiate with the US government presiding over negotiation.

http://www.kitguru.net/components/g...intel-cannot-block-our-merger-or-acquisition/
Devinder Kumar, chief financial officer of Advanced Micro Devices, said in a statement last week that the company could enter into joint ventures, mergers or acquisitions (M&A) agreements without fearing of termination its cross-license pact with Intel Corp. Many industry observers believe that a bigger company cannot acquire AMD since this will terminate the deal with Intel and will leave AMD without an x86 license immediately.
The cross-license agreement is automatically terminated when one of the parties changes its ownership or control. Many analysts believe that this clause in the agreement has kept multiple companies and strategic investors away from AMD because without an cross-license deal with Intel the company loses legal rights to build x86-compatible processors. Products containing Intel’s x86 and other IP account for 70 per cent of AMD’s revenue. However, AMD’s CFO denies that AMD will face drastic problems in case there is a change of control.
“Is there anything, any impediment from an M&A or joint-venture standpoint? The answer is no, there is no impediment from an overall M&A standpoint regarding the cross-license,” said Mr. Kumar.
Since Intel does use intellectual property of AMD inside its chips, it needs an agreement with AMD. However, it should be noted that if the cross-license between AMD and Intel is terminated because a party gets acquired by a third company, licenses granted to another party will survive unless that other party gets acquired too (i.e., if AMD is taken over, Intel sustains rights to AMD’s IP), in accordance with the term 5.2d of the agreement. The same happens if one company gets bankrupt.



Mods, can we just have one sticky thread on this because AMD x86 license in case of change in ownership gets brought up over and over and over again.

 

[positivedoppler]

If what Kumar says is true, then a Nvidia/AMD partnership is ideal for both company. The CPU and GPU market are about to consolidate into one. x86 is not going anywhere and Nvidia is the odd man out without a x86 license. Intel iGPU is getting good enough that in the not so distant future, it will devastate Nvidia's dGPU sale. Intel has already completely wreck Nvidia's short term success into the tablet market by dumping atoms for dirt cheap.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Why would nVidia want AMD? They already have 80% of the dgpu market. x86 is not really a growing market now, and they would have to battle firmly entrenched intel in that market. Seems to me nVidia is better off to continue to expand into other areas like automotive and such. The only reason I can see that someone would want to buy AMD is for the graphics IP, and nVidia already has that.

Besides, I dont think the regulators would ever let that happen anyway. It would be even more monopolistic than if intel bought AMD.

Edit: And this is assuming for the sake of argument that the x86 license would transfer. I dont want to get into that can of worms because it has been beaten to death in multiple threads already. But even if it did, I dont see why nVidia would want AMD.

 

[AtenRa]

Actually if dGPU volumes continue to shrink the entire 2016, an AMD + NVIDIA merger will create a nice competition to Intel and ARM.

 

[NTMBK]

There's a reason why NVidia were so annoyed when Intel dumped their external bus to the memory controller- it let them make almost the entire platform, with just a few Intel cores tacked on:

Denver was originally meant to be able to run x86 code (hence the fancy code-morphing technology), but NVidia signed a settlement with Intel which barred them from ever producing a product which runs x86.

 

[Dribble]

There's a reason why NVidia were so annoyed when Intel dumped their external bus to the memory controller- it let them make almost the entire platform, with just a few Intel cores tacked on:

Denver was originally meant to be able to run x86 code (hence the fancy code-morphing technology), but NVidia signed a settlement with Intel which barred them from ever producing a product which runs x86.

Which drove Nvidia to switch to ARM which is now becoming the dominant cpu architecture going forward. In the end the effect of all that litigation to defend x86 is killing it, and AMD with it. Hence all AMD's x86 business is as good as worthless to a 3rd company.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Would be suicidal for NVidia to buy AMD. x86 or not. It would just make NVidia into another AMD with constant loses and deathspiral.

 

[Mondozei]

AMD is poison right now. What would Nvidia have to gain?

Only if you think that they'll keep making CPUs, which they won't. Their GPU business still puts out very competitive GPUs and GCN is better suited for DX12.

But from this perspective, NV doens't need anything that AMD has to offer in the GPU space, since they make it all for themselves. And nobody would buy AMD for its CPU business.

So you're right in that NV has nothing to gain, but you're wrong in your general attack on AMD. There's a large difference between their CPU/GPU divisions.

 

[5150Joker]

Only if you think that they'll keep making CPUs, which they won't. Their GPU business still puts out very competitive GPUs and GCN is better suited for DX12.

But from this perspective, NV doens't need anything that AMD has to offer in the GPU space, since they make it all for themselves. And nobody would buy AMD for its CPU business.

So you're right in that NV has nothing to gain, but you're wrong in your general attack on AMD. There's a large difference between their CPU/GPU divisions.

AMD isn't doing any better in DX 12 vs NVIDIA, it's pretty much a tie in the AMD sponsored alpha. With Pascal on the way, AMD is in big trouble. NVIDIA has nothing to gain with a merger with AMD, just financial misery and a lot of dead weight. NVIDIA, like most other smart companies, is waiting for AMD to declare bankruptcy so they can swoop in and take over the GPU patents.

 

[NTMBK]

With Pascal on the way, AMD is in big trouble.

...you know that AMD are going to bring out new GPUs too, right? The whole reason that they kept rebadging those 28nm GPUs for so long is because they were waiting for 14/16nm.

 

[ShintaiDK]

...you know that AMD are going to bring out new GPUs too, right? The whole reason that they kept rebadging those 28nm GPUs for so long is because they were waiting for 14/16nm.

But will these just be GCN 1.2 or something new? Everything points to the former.

 

[NTMBK]

But will these just be GCN 1.2 or something new? Everything points to the former.

"Everything" at this point being a bunch of internet speculation. I'm waiting for some actual details and benchmarks before I pass judgement either way "Everything" also pointed to the Fury X being a Titan X stomping monster of a card, and we all know how that turned out.

 

[ShintaiDK]

"Everything" at this point being a bunch of internet speculation. I'm waiting for some actual details and benchmarks before I pass judgement either way "Everything" also pointed to the Fury X being a Titan X stomping monster of a card, and we all know how that turned out.

I am just basing it on AMDs own information.

 

[NTMBK]

I am just basing it on AMDs own information.

Which is so vague as to be meaningless (As is depressingly common with their presentations at the moment.)

 

[Gryz]

China will buy all of the US before nVidia buys AMD.

 

[Flapdrol1337]

It's hard to see why they'd want to own amd.

Pascal should be able to do everything gcn can. And for now nvidia's maxwell is much cheaper to make than equally performing amd gpu's.
Intel can always lower cpu prices making it impossible to make money on amd cpu's.

 

[mysticjbyrd]

Just had the thought after reading of an exec leaving amd to work at Nvidia. Nvidia + x86 could be interesting, right?

I don't think the govt would let that happen. It would be like that time warner deal, except far worse.

AMD isn't doing any better in DX 12 vs NVIDIA, it's pretty much a tie in the AMD sponsored alpha. With Pascal on the way, AMD is in big trouble. NVIDIA has nothing to gain with a merger with AMD, just financial misery and a lot of dead weight. NVIDIA, like most other smart companies, is waiting for AMD to declare bankruptcy so they can swoop in and take over the GPU patents.

Except AMD has more headroom to grow. It might not be a huge lead atm under dx12, but that's because NV can toss unlimited funds at it right now.

 

[Phynaz]

Only if you think that they'll keep making CPUs, which they won't. Their GPU business still puts out very competitive GPUs and GCN is better suited for DX12.

But from this perspective, NV doens't need anything that AMD has to offer in the GPU space, since they make it all for themselves. And nobody would buy AMD for its CPU business.

So you're right in that NV has nothing to gain, but you're wrong in your general attack on AMD. There's a large difference between their CPU/GPU divisions.

Okay, so take on billions of dollars of debt, dump the CPU division (while keeping it's debt), just to gain 20% more share in the shrinking desktop GPU market.

The only way this happens is part of a pre-packaged bankruptcy that let's AMD shed it debt load.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

But will these just be GCN 1.2 or something new? Everything points to the former.

"Just" be GCN 1.2? C'mon, GCN 1.2 is a very good architecture already. A 14/16nm 3072SP GCN 1.2 chip with HBM2 would make a very compelling product.