Nvidia bridgeless SLI and SLI AA appear

[apoppin]

from the Inq [look interesting and not posted yet - i think]:

NVIDIA IS RELEASING NEW drivers tomorrow. You can expect a bunch of tricks and goodies, but nothing astounding in the performance arena. The main things the update brings is a fresh SLI mode, along with support for the 6600LE and its bridgeless SLi.

There are the usual bug fixes, the 'VR-Zone Overcooling' one is a biggie for the lunatic fringe overclocker set, the overbright video bug is a good one for everyone, and widescreen under SLi is fixed, or fixed in all but a few cases. Not a bad haul for the bug hunters this time.

The 6600LE, the upcoming budget card from NV, is aimed straight at the 9550 from ATI, and it looks to be a solid hit. This card should be in the $70 to $100 range, but we are told it will be much closer to $70 than $100, think $75ish. The really nice thingthis brings to the table is bridgeless SLI over the PCIe bus.

We criticised this method earlier, but the 6600LE removes a major objection, it is low end and will never saturate the PCIe bus. It won't even come close. This extra bandwidth means that you can pass SLI data across the PCIe bus with little or no performance degradation. That may not be the ideal situation for those looking for the ultimate frame rate in CS:Source, but the 6600LE is not its card of choice either. Overall, it brings SLI to the masses at an affordable price.

This is good for those looking at buying a cheap system especially those that don't want to get stuck without an upgrade path, this will get you in the door, and allow you to buy another 6600LE for cheap SLi. Alternatively, you can throw the first one out and get a couple of 6600GTs. Either way, you won't have your wallet broken from the start.

The other path is for system vendors to offer cheap machines with SLi. f you want to buy a system on a budget, the wow factor of SLI is fairly alluring. Four monitor capability is not a bad bullet point offering either, and this will be the cheapest way to do itI. If your mother buys you a budget SLi box, you can always upgrade, which beats the heck out of an embedded graphics machine without an AGP or PCIe 16x slot.

Saving the best for last is a new mode, 16X antialiasing, or as it is officially called SLi AA mode. SLi AA comes in two flavors, 8x and 16x, both of which offer a potentially huge benefit for quality on CPU bound games. I noticed that the 7800GTX is pretty much better than any CPU out there, it is nearly impossible to push this card to the limit on many games, including some of the most modern ones. Until the FX-59 comes out, the video card will be spending more time waiting for the CPU than the other way around.

What do you do if you are a lonely California GPU maker and you feel for these cards? You make work for them, and do it in a way that is pleasing to the eye, hence the SLi part of SLi AA. What it does is have one card do either 4x or 8x antialiasing, for 8x and 16x modes respectively, and combines them before output. This is a completely new form of SLi, and does not work in AFR or Split Screen modes.

Before you scratch your head and wonder about this, for games that do not get any more speed in SLi mode, this can be a major benefit, you can double the AA mode and not take a speed hit. The visual quality there should be pretty noticeable, but how it accomplishes that is just as big a win. The trick here is that one card picks one AA pattern, and the other one takes a different pattern. When combined, you end up with a more sophisticated and higher quality image.

So, in the end, the new drivers, most likely 77.76, the last digit may change, will be out tomorrow, barring any last minute bugs. They won't bring massive frame rate improvements, but they do bring a new SLi mode and bridgeless SLi to the table. They should at the very least be very interesting for geeks to fiddle with, and with the upcoming 80.xx drivers should pick up the performance race again. Looks like these will be a lot of fun.

EDIT: ForceWare Release 75 - Version: 77.76 Get it Now!

 

[trinibwoy]

First numbers - http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=707

The 8x numbers are unexpectedly low though. They should be very similar to single card 4x.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: trinibwoy
First numbers - http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=707

The 8x numbers are unexpectedly low though. They should be very similar to single card 4x.

that is a great review which explains exactly what the "new" sli will do:

But SLI AA isn't about high-framerates in every game. The idea behind SLI AA is to improve image quality in games that will still run comfortably with the increased filtering being applied. Older games, or CPU bound games are the proposed candidates. For GPU bound games, it's better to just crank up the resolution and apply standard anti-aliasing. But with a CPU bound game, you can now crank the quality up even higher, and still maintain playable framerates in many cases.

their conclusion:

In a CPU bound game like Half Life 2, NVIDIA's new SLI anti-aliasing modes produced excellent images, and the game remained completely playable, even at resolutions as high as 1600x1200 with SLI 16X anti-aliasing enabled. With GPU bound games like Doom 3 and FarCry, however, enabling SLI anti-aliasing lowered performance dramatically. But throughout, the image quality benefits offered by enabling SLI anti-aliasing were abundantly clear.

We really like what NVIDIA has done with this latest set of Forceware drivers. With these new drivers, which should be available sometime tomorrow on nZone.com, NVIDIA has enabled SLI functionality for cards all the way down to the inexpensive GeForce 6600LE, and have fixed a few nagging bugs.. . .

And considering that this is the first set of drivers that have SLI AA functionality enabled, we suspect that SLI anti-aliasing will only get better with time. The offset and resolve functions will likely be optimized in the future, which will probably increase performance and perhaps further tweak image attributes as well. But even in its infancy, NVIDIA's SLI anti-aliasing is superior to anything the competition currently has to offer in terms of image quality, and it's here right now. Until ATI's CrossFire finally ships and we can test its new anti-aliasing modes, we can't say for certain whether or not NVIDIA's methods are inferior or superior, but that's a story for another day.

And Crossfire looks to be caught in a SLI crossfire . . . of sorts. :Q

 

[Suspicious-Teach8788]

I think that's kinda dumb. They should still make it AFR or something. If you can put them in SLI then you should be able to bump up the AA to say like 24x and then do AFR. I think that's better IMO. If you want quality, allow higher AA rates, but leave the benefit of SLI. I don't buy SLI for image quality.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I don't buy SLI for image quality.

To quote you again, "I think that's kinda dumb." Considering the many situations where a single 7800GTX is CPU limmited, the only way to tap the unused power left in the 7800GTX is to crack up the image quality. Going SLI only escalates such a "problem" as you've now go even more untapped power. The only way to take advdantage of it is to crank up the IQ.

SLI/Crossfire (well, just SLI right now really) is about performance AND image quality, as you can get the performance aspect from just one card and a less expensive motherbaord, the total savings of which is pretty enormous.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I think that's kinda dumb. They should still make it AFR or something. If you can put them in SLI then you should be able to bump up the AA to say like 24x and then do AFR. I think that's better IMO. If you want quality, allow higher AA rates, but leave the benefit of SLI. I don't buy SLI for image quality.

"kinda dumb"? did you even bother to read the review? . . . . "make it AFR or something?" :Q

do you even know anything about SLI or Xfire?
:shocked:


i didn't think so

:roll:

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I think that's kinda dumb. They should still make it AFR or something. If you can put them in SLI then you should be able to bump up the AA to say like 24x and then do AFR. I think that's better IMO. If you want quality, allow higher AA rates, but leave the benefit of SLI. I don't buy SLI for image quality.

I would advise you do some research - read some articles, reviews etc before you post again.

 

[trinibwoy]

Originally posted by: DLeRiumIf you want quality, allow higher AA rates, but leave the benefit of SLI. I don't buy SLI for image quality.

By the way, what is the benefit of SLI?

 

[nRollo]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I think that's kinda dumb. They should still make it AFR or something. If you can put them in SLI then you should be able to bump up the AA to say like 24x and then do AFR. I think that's better IMO. If you want quality, allow higher AA rates, but leave the benefit of SLI. I don't buy SLI for image quality.

"kinda dumb"? did you even bother to read the review? . . . . "make it AFR or something?" :Q

do you even know anything about SLI or Xfire?
:shocked:


i didn't think so

:roll:

LOL and QFT

BTW- looks like I now have settings that can make games unplayable on my rig. The HL2 numbers look very good though, looking forward to trying that out.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: bunnyfubbles

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I don't buy SLI for image quality.

To quote you again, "I think that's kinda dumb." Considering the many situations where a single 7800GTX is CPU limmited, the only way to tap the unused power left in the 7800GTX is to crack up the image quality. Going SLI only escalates such a "problem" as you've now go even more untapped power. The only way to take advdantage of it is to crank up the IQ.

SLI/Crossfire (well, just SLI right now really) is about performance AND image quality, as you can get the performance aspect from just one card and a less expensive motherbaord, the total savings of which is pretty enormous.

exactly, i wouldnt buy SLI for just the speed, id buy SLI so that i could play at my current speed, but having it look 2-3 times as good

speeds not everything, id rather have same speed, but looks better

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I think that's kinda dumb. They should still make it AFR or something. If you can put them in SLI then you should be able to bump up the AA to say like 24x and then do AFR. I think that's better IMO. If you want quality, allow higher AA rates, but leave the benefit of SLI. I don't buy SLI for image quality.

"kinda dumb"? did you even bother to read the review? . . . . "make it AFR or something?" :Q

do you even know anything about SLI or Xfire?
:shocked:


i didn't think so

:roll:

LOL and QFT

BTW- looks like I now have settings that can make games unplayable on my rig. The HL2 numbers look very good though, looking forward to trying that out.

rollo you are a bastage for having 2 7800GTX's

 

[Ackmed]

"The visual quality there should be pretty noticeable". Except it is not.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
"The visual quality there should be pretty noticeable". Except it is not.

try looking at the images again - withOUT your ATI Glasses.
:roll:

 

[Ackmed]

Nice Rollo-esque response, with all the eye rollings.

It doesnt look much better to me at all. And Im not alone. Why didnt they use TA AA with super? That makes it look better to me.

Am I glad they put it out? Yeah, but I doubt many people are going to use it with any half-way new game, considering its large performance hit. For older games it could be very useable, if there are no rendering problems.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
Nice Rollo-esque response, with all the eye rollings.

It doesnt look much better to me at all. And Im not alone. Why didnt they use TA AA with super? That makes it look better to me.

Am I glad they put it out? Yeah, but I doubt many people are going to use it with any half-way new game, considering its large performance hit. For older games it could be very useable, if there are no rendering problems.

"Rollo-esque"?

"i" patented the 'eye-roll' on AT. :Q
[often copied, but never equalled]




New games? VERY useful IF you are "cpu-limited" - which MOST new games are with the 7800gtx SLI.
And extraordinarily useful for almost all other games and "lesser" sli-systems.

It just "looks better" . . . i doubt that screenshots convey it all . . .
. . . Remember SLI is "only" in it's second refinement - it will only get better.

No doubt ATI will follow and impliment something similar in Xfire II . . . . eventually.

 

[SonicIce]

1. How will the 6600 LE compare to the 9600 Pro/XT? (These are the current $70-$100 fastest cards?)
2. Will it be in AGP?

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: SonicIce
1. How will the 6600 LE compare to the 9600 Pro/XT? (These are the current $70-$100 fastest cards?)
2. Will it be in AGP?

well, it is aimed at the ATI 9550 . . .

probably, although it is the "low-end" for PCI's SLI.

Have the new drivers been officially released? ANYone try them?

 

[apoppin]

ForceWare Release 75 - Version: 77.76; BETA Drivers

Get it here - released today.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Rollo

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: DLeRium
I think that's kinda dumb. They should still make it AFR or something. If you can put them in SLI then you should be able to bump up the AA to say like 24x and then do AFR. I think that's better IMO. If you want quality, allow higher AA rates, but leave the benefit of SLI. I don't buy SLI for image quality.

"kinda dumb"? did you even bother to read the review? . . . . "make it AFR or something?" :Q

do you even know anything about SLI or Xfire?
:shocked:


i didn't think so

:roll:

LOL and QFT

BTW- looks like I now have settings that can make games unplayable on my rig. The HL2 numbers look very good though, looking forward to trying that out.

We should run and compare. Any ideas what the best way to do it is? I'm open to comparing yours to mine and seeing what the results are for these folks.

 

[apoppin]

So . . . anybody going to do a comparison?

 

[icelazer]

I installed the coolbits yesterday and ran bf2 for a couple of minutes with the sli16x and sli8x modes, and the performance is too bad to use for me. at 1900x1200 sli8x 16xaf all settings on high, just standing around, the framerate was around 40fps, dipping much lower with any action. At 16x, it idled around 30fps. I didn't notice it looked that much better than 4xaa and 16xaf which I normally run (that idles around 90-100fps). I used renderer.drawfps 1 and just looked at the avg rates for a few minutes to get those approximate rates. a64 4000+ sd, 2gb patriot ram, asus a8nsli-premium, 2x bfg 7800gtx oc

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: icelazer
I installed the coolbits yesterday and ran bf2 for a couple of minutes with the sli16x and sli8x modes, and the performance is too bad to use for me. at 1900x1200 sli8x 16xaf all settings on high, just standing around, the framerate was around 40fps, dipping much lower with any action. At 16x, it idled around 30fps. I didn't notice it looked that much better than 4xaa and 16xaf which I normally run (that idles around 90-100fps). I used renderer.drawfps 1 and just looked at the avg rates for a few minutes to get those approximate rates. a64 4000+ sd, 2gb patriot ram, asus a8nsli-premium, 2x bfg 7800gtx oc

Try it on an OLDer game or one that is CPU-limited.

BF2 wouldn't be a good choice for SLI-AA.

 

[Avalon]

Difference between 4x and 16x didn't seem that much to me. However, I do have a question which has me mildly curious about these new drivers...they claim the 6600LE (upcoming card) and the 6600 can now enable SLI simply over the PCI-e bus.

My question is...does anyone think a vanilla 6200 would also be able to be run in bridgeless SLI, assuming you had two identical cards with the same BIOS? My thinking is that many successfully unlock vanilla 6200s into 6600s, but only the drivers do not recognize them as such. They are, however, the same chip and usually the same board. A BIOS flash may be able to take care of that problem.

The reason I'm interested is...I had bought a Leadtek 6200 a couple months back as a temporary card in my DFI NF4 Ultra. I managed to grab it for $50, and it unlocks. What if I were able to pick up another one for $50, match their BIOS's, and SLI them for a theoretical $100 6800NU? I assume that's where performance would fall under. I was initially going to toss the 6200 for a midrange next gen ATI/Nvidia card, but if I can do this for only $50 more, I may be more satisfied to do so. I only play at 12x9, so my gaming needs are not very demanding.

 

[Ackmed]

Im just happy that I can now see chain, in the chainlink fence in BF2 with these drivers. I do wish they had triple buffering in D3D games though, not just OpenGL. But at least they finally got that.

 

[Ronin]

Originally posted by: Avalon
Difference between 4x and 16x didn't seem that much to me. However, I do have a question which has me mildly curious about these new drivers...they claim the 6600LE (upcoming card) and the 6600 can now enable SLI simply over the PCI-e bus.

My question is...does anyone think a vanilla 6200 would also be able to be run in bridgeless SLI, assuming you had two identical cards with the same BIOS? My thinking is that many successfully unlock vanilla 6200s into 6600s, but only the drivers do not recognize them as such. They are, however, the same chip and usually the same board. A BIOS flash may be able to take care of that problem.

The reason I'm interested is...I had bought a Leadtek 6200 a couple months back as a temporary card in my DFI NF4 Ultra. I managed to grab it for $50, and it unlocks. What if I were able to pick up another one for $50, match their BIOS's, and SLI them for a theoretical $100 6800NU? I assume that's where performance would fall under. I was initially going to toss the 6200 for a midrange next gen ATI/Nvidia card, but if I can do this for only $50 more, I may be more satisfied to do so. I only play at 12x9, so my gaming needs are not very demanding.

If I recall, nVidia only mentioned the 6600 at the launch. I don't think the 6200 falls into the bridgeless SLi category.