Nvidia ~ "All For One ... One For All"

[Protouringcars]

This is what my system looks like currently:

Frame Hardware:

Chasis: 10 x 5.25 bays. Black Color. Security Door with key.
Fans: One Vornado outside the case. Non in the case except
for those cooling the RAID hdds and one cooling my master
harddrive.
Power Supply: PC Power Cooling 400wt "Silencer"
Motherboard: Abit NV7-133R


North Bridge Hardware:

CPU: AMD Athlon 1800 XP overclocked to 1702Mhz from 1500Mhz
AGP: Radeon 9500Pro buuuuut going back to Elsa 920 Geforce3
Memory: 2 x 256MB Kingston 2.5 Modules
Harddrives: 2 x Maxtor 60 gigs used in RAID Mirror and 1 x Forgot for Windows etc..
CD-Roms: 1 x 52x Sony, 1 x 12x TDK burner, 1 x 5x Creative Encore DVD-Rom

South Bridge Hardware:

Sound Card: Creative Audigy 1 with "live drive"
Network Card: Linksys TX100 Ethernet Protocol
Multimedia Card: Creative Dxr3

Operating System:

Windows 2000 with Service Pack 3

I want to make this quick with concern to "ati driver issues" and "benchmarks" from "reputable magazines and websites"

I'll be straight in saying that today I received my much acclaimed Radeon 9500Pro from Newegg.com. Much to my dismay I have become one of many many unfortunate game enthusiast who has run into driver issues. I dont know how many of you play counterstrike online but I still do. When installing even the latest drivers for my 9500Pro I still experienced jitter when moving my character around the map. Jitter meaning when ever I began to run through a hallway or past a wall ... or box for that matter, the object would appear to jiggle back and forth really quickly. It only happend when my character ran. All else seemed ok. I was also disappointed in the performance I met in Dungeon Siege. The card cranked out just as many FPS as did my Geforce3 920! Benchmarks from so called reputable online articles claim that I should be encountering much greater gains! I'll give another benchmark "boohoo" here too. It too concerns Dungeon Seige! In Maximum PC they posted that just about any card around a ti4400 would be able to give me at least 30 FPS in Dungeon Seige. Do any of you play DS? Well if you do, have you ever turned on the FPS meter in the options section? Well if not, do it once for me. You'll notice that when you're by yourself with no enemies or party members around that your FPS will skyrocket (64 FPS on my geforce3). Notice though, that when you have many party members and lots of enemies that your FPS will suffer greatly. Course it all makes sense, more 3d characters for your video card to not only think about ... but to produce! My gripe ... getting back to my point is... why is maximum pc and other "reputable" mags and websites giving optimistic FPS rates?! Give a range of LOWEST to HIGHEST experienced FPS! Supposedly the Radeon 9700 Pro would be able to crank out 58 FPS... which I doubt, seeing how I actually have a better first hand view than they seem to have received! With my 9500Pro my FPS went up to around 60FPS when I let my character roam alone down to 7 or 8 FPS when there was a battle with 8 party members and a variety (different shapes) and quantity of enemies! READER BEWARE! Benchmarks are misleading. How many of you actually run the exact same set up... with a P4 3.06 Ghz ? I'd like to know. It seems to me that benchmarks really wouldn't have a place for the gaming enthusiast unless they were geared for hardware the average college student could buy without mugging someone or working more than 40 hours a week and failing classes over it. Main point is... please please please... make an alternative set of benchmarks for the person who can't go get a $500+ P4 but can afford a good mobo and graphics card. Money doesn't grow on trees. Even more so remember to produce a range for your benchmarks (lowest scores and highest). I must conclude with saying my loyalties lay with nvidia. Their software engineers still have them holding the crown due to their knowing a good graphics card must be well made in every respect (hardware and software-wise) in order to please and win over a consumer. Friends of mine have experienced the same. Just recently before I bought my 9500Pro I laughed when a friend of mine bought a 4400 ti. I would have gone for a 9500 Pro if I were him. Now, before I get laughed @, i'm sending my system incompatible video card back to it's reseller with all money and confidence in a 4600 or FX model put out by an nvidia manufacturer. I have been greatly humbled and now empathize with what I've heard from many with concern to ati driver issues. Hail Nvidia ... for now...
Like to debate this topic ? Msg or email me: HailNvidia@hotmail.com

 

[BFG10K]

I had a really tough time sifting through your post. Please, next time try to break it up into paragraphs.

Did you correctly remove all traces of your nVidia card before you put your Radeon in?
Did you try running everything in your system at stock speeds?

 

[Protouringcars]

Just not my luck ~ I spent several hours getting my system ready with a new hdd ... formating... installing windows.... installing chipset drivers etc... The 9500Pro still glitches like before. Not as noticable... but close. Either time for a 4600 or the wait for the FX... I know for sure the drivers will be stable at least. Reminds me of back in 99/2000 when I purchased a matrox vid card and tried to play halflife. *system boots up*.... **crash**.... grrr. Purchased a Diamond Viper TNT2 Ultra and all was well...happy camper. I would most likely stick this out if I didn't do a lot of hardware switching, but I need a card that is reliable no matter what I do to my OS or hardware. Back to Newegg it goes.... sigh.

 

[spanky]

send the 9500 to me

 

[Serp86]

right now ati's drivers are VERY stable - and many will say the same

i have got a radeon 9700pro when it was out and installed ALL the catalysts and never had any problems.

If you were going to play counterstrike you had no reason to buy a rad9500pro when you had a gf3. The 9500pro will really start kicking butt in new games - not ones older than two years. I highly doubt that getting a gf4ti4600 will help as it is slower.

You got a good rig - allright? get unreal 2003, or ghost recon - and then compare the fps between a gf3 and a rad9500pro.

 

[Serp86]

so sorry - from that cramped paragraph i thought you were talking on counter strike

60 fps in ds are pretty good

 

[Protouringcars]

lol ~ don't you wish. i'm sure newegg might find someway of putting it up for resale in the cheaper section of their website

 

[Protouringcars]

Serp ~

I play CS almost everyday. Guys in there are sporting just 4200's (dont know if they're overclocked) but either way they say they're getting up to 100 fps in CS! I think my Geforce3 is capable of the same according to "what's on the paper" but I'm constantly stuck at 59-60 fps when I "cl_showfps 1". Wish I had more luck like some of you with my Radeon . Maybe in the next gpu release i'll try them out again. Until then i'm willing to go slower, equal, and better (the stats are all over the place ~ what i'm really counting on is no hastle drivers 24/7.....almost do them in my sleep) than a 9700 pro in waiting for an FX. My components just like nvidia more....no clue...you ask them why. Thanks for your feedback!

ptc

 

[Serp86]

well - if i remember correctly counterstrike is capped at 100fps - so no matter what vid card you have you cannot get more than that.

Also - you have an overclocked cpu there - try to get it down to it's original specifications - and try again. Overclocking can sometimes produce some nasty results

waht drivers do you have?

try;
1) 2.5 + dx 8.1
2)3.0 + dx 9

 

[kylebisme]

Originally posted by: Protouringcars
Serp ~

I play CS almost everyday. Guys in there are sporting just 4200's (dont know if they're overclocked) but either way they say they're getting up to 100 fps in CS! I think my Geforce3 is capable of the same according to "what's on the paper" but I'm constantly stuck at 59-60 fps when I "cl_showfps 1".

man if you cant even figure out how to adjust your refresh rate you had beter just take back the 9500pro and buy an xbox.

 

[Goose77]

haha.. dood your stuck at 60fps.. what resolution do u play at. And what Hz is the monitor set at??

sound simiple to me if this is the problem. for ATI you must turn off vertical sync!!! edit - with Vsync on this will cap your fps to about 60 (+-10fps). You have to do it to your Gf3 also. If you dont know how to do this, let me know

I have an AIW 8500DV core/mem 235/235 (oc'ed) {stock=230/190} and i have my AA/AF up all the way with quality settings as high as it goes. I have no prob with CS and it looks alot better then my GF3 ti200 (golden BOY)!!!!!!!!!

dood, something is not right with your setup. i cant tell right away what it is.

let me give you another reason to keep it. 3dmark scores!

Gf3 out of the box stock 200/450 = 7300 3dmark

ATI stock 230/190 = 8000 3dmark !!

OVER CLOCKED

MY MOD'ED Gf3 250/550 (fsb 175Mhz on abit KR7A kt266a) = 9149 3dmark

not mod'ed ATI 235/235 (fsb 144) = 8500 !!!

Edit - agrees with Snowman, hardware like this should never fall into the hands of AMATEURS

 

[BFG10K]

Protouringcars you still haven't answered my questions about overclocking.

 

[Protouringcars]

I reformatted and ran everything at stock speeds....i'm a bit late here...but just closing that up. Thx for the reply. Also....snowman...I did run vsync on with a tweak....i'm still at 60 fps

 

[kylebisme]

of corse you got 60fps, vsyc is what keeps your framerate running the same as your monitors refresh, 60hz = 60fps. you have to turn the refresh up on your monitor to change that, or run with your frames out of sync.

 

[Protouringcars]

I just turned on cs right now with the vsync option off. It's makeing the walls in the map jitter whenever I move. Funny...the same thing happened with my ati 9500pro....maybe vsync was on by default .... damn...and I returned it....curses. My geforce3 doesn't do the jitter as bad as the ati card though..... still....something I wish I knew more about.

 

[kylebisme]

ohh ya its ulgy as can be when you have a fast card pushing out of sync frames, thats why we have vsync to lock the framerate at the monitors refresh rate. you can turn it on and off for your gefroce as well to see the difference, although i think you might need rivatuner to do it.

 

[Protouringcars]

Snow...you mentioned getting an Xbox ?... please. I don't know it all about computer.... if I did I wouldn't be typing such a question.....and rather, I'd be helping others with their difficulties. Just help people in expressing an honest opinion that adds to the post for others who may stumble on the same problem and refer to this in the future. More along the likes of Goose77s attitude/ eagerness to help rather than belittle would be appreciated. I tried the whole vsync on and off....i'm not stressing....replacing my elsa 920 either way.

 

[Protouringcars]

Thanks for you reply snow....didn't mean to go off the hook.... it felt a bit harse though with the whole xbox comment.

 

[Protouringcars]

btw.....ti 4600 or 9500pro ?..... or just go 9700pro....think I might try another ati card with some tweaks I found.

 

[Protouringcars]

well...i'm out for the night.

 

[kylebisme]

ya, about the xbox comment. it is just that at the time you seemed to be so far from level headed on the issue that i doubted that i could be of help no matter how hard i tried. hence, i got a little snide and offered what i saw as the obvious solution to your issues. but in retrospect i see that it was poor decision on my part, and i am sorry for that.

however, i do want to recommend that in the future you look for answers to your problems in a more constructive fashion; a search on the official cs forums for "60fps" would have surely gotten you the answer to your problem very quickly. anyway, as for what card to get today; judging from the price rage you listed i would have to say a 9700non-pro is for you. it is just a little more expensive than the 9500pro and almost every bit as powerful as the 9700pro while costing respectably less. or if you want to hold out you we will soon see how the 5600 and 9600 look when they go live; but if you want a card today, neither of those are going to do you any good.

 

[Protouringcars]

Thanks for the input . Much appreciated.

 

[codeyf]

I had my 9700 Pro for about a week, and will be shipping it to a new owner on wednesday. Hopefully earlier if Fedex decides to be nice to me. I've already spent counless hours trying to get this card to run "ok". And the benchmarks, as synthetic as they are, are only marginally better than the Ti4200 I had.

I can't help but chuckle when people say how "stable" ATI's drivers are now. Compared to what? How they were a year ago? ATI is not and never will be on the same level as nVidia in developing drivers. Which is too bad, because if they were, nVidia would be seriously hurting.

 

[kylebisme]

i doubt you will ever get your radeon running good with an attitude like that, you should probably just pass it off to someone else.

 

[Jeff7]

Originally posted by: Protouringcars
I just turned on cs right now with the vsync option off. It's makeing the walls in the map jitter whenever I move. Funny...the same thing happened with my ati 9500pro....maybe vsync was on by default .... damn...and I returned it....curses. My geforce3 doesn't do the jitter as bad as the ati card though..... still....something I wish I knew more about.

Yeah, I didn't like the tearing with Vsync disabled. I always get high framerates though, mainly because I don't run anything higher than 1280x1024 - I can do 85Hz at that resolution, but only 65Hz at 1600x1200, and my eyes just can't stand that at all.
Also, in CS, the low framerates - that might have something to do with ATi's Trueform technology; I've seen it mentioned here quite often. I think that you need to type ati_patch 0 in console, or something like that.

Edit: Link to that thread.