Nvidia 40nm update.

[Keysplayr]

I was asked to post this question to NV. "When will they start making their 40nm parts? And when can we see them on shelves?"

40nm Info

"Many of you have asked when will we start our transition to 40nm. The answer is, we already have! However, 40nm is still a new process at TSMC, and supply will be limited through the 2nd quarter. We have started our production ramp of 40nm, and have secured a large number of Tier1 OEM design wins with our 40nm parts. Because of the long qualification and production cycles of OEMs, we are focusing our 40nm material on OEM designs right now. We will start to introduce products for the channel in the summer, when we are certain there will not be supply issues for our channel partners."

If you guys knew this already, then my apologies.

 

[SunnyD]

So, typical knee-jerk paper launch then right?

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: SunnyD
So, typical knee-jerk paper launch then right?

Ok.

 

[Idontcare]

I don't see anything being launched here or implied to launch, not sure how this info could be interpreted that way.

If we consider how early it is still regarding process maturity for TSMC's 40nm, and then consider that ATI's 40nm chip is likely smaller than NV's 40nm chip, it really would/should come as no surprise that there might be a 3-6 month gap between ATI releasing their smaller 40nm chips to the market versus NV releasing their larger 40nm chips to the market.

In the early stages of a node release the D0 can be so high that yields for a 600mm^2 chip will be zero while the yields for a sub-300mm^2 chip will be non-zero. NV might be well and ready to ship product today if they could get cost-effective volumes of the chips out of TSMC.

Also keep in mind NV sells chips to make money, and gross margins are king, as such they aren't going to stop selling a 55nm chip which garners 50% GM just so they can replace its SKU with a 40nm chip that garners 30% GM (lower GM because yields are low, raising costs) even if the 40nm chip represents more performance for the end-user than the 55nm chips.

In such a situation they will intentionally delay (as a business decision) the release of 40nm chips until such time that the yields become high enough such that the GM's become comparable to those of the 55nm chips OR until such time that the competitive pressures on their 55nm enabled SKU's becomes such that the pricing pressure on those SKU's has decreased the ASP's to the point that the GM's have decreased to be comparable to that of a 40nm enabled SKU. This isn't unique to NV, they all operate this way, their shareholders demand it of them.

 

[MarcVenice]

To bad they don't specify WHAT they are producing on 40nm.

The HD 4770 isn't exactly in big supply either btw. From what I've gathered, ATI is only supplying its AIB's a limited amount of RV740-chips.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I don't see anything being launched here or implied to launch, not sure how this info could be interpreted that way.

Sorry - I thought it was clear. It appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to AMD actually shipping a 40nm part. You know, the whole "Hey, wait... me too! Look at me! We have 40nm parts too! Don't forget about us, over here! Yeah, we have em... we just... uh... can't tell you what they are yet!"

While I don't doubt they are working on 40nm designs and probably have samples of SOMETHING in 40nm, they obviously wanted to put out this little piece of news to their press-monkeys so as not be "left behind".

Again, I'm sorry for the confusion. I thought brevity would be a better way to go.

 

[Wreckage]

http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-preparing-40nm-geforce-gt-240m--g210m/6954.html?doc=6954

Recently, DigiTimes reported that TSMC and UMC are making the 40nm GT218, GT216, GT215 and GT214 chips in late Q2. Now, VR-Zone has learned that Nvidia is preparing GeForce GT 240M and GeForce G210M for launch somewhere between May-June. However, there is still no sign of 40nm desktop parts yet but only the 40nm mobile parts. GeForce GT 240M is codenamed N10P-GS, a performance part which could be GT215 based while GeForce G210M is codenamed N10M-GS, a mainstream GT216 part.

 

[nyker96]

what is the expected level of performance for these gt21x cards? I assume they will be below gts250 by the numbering but that doesn't seem to make much sense to put so much work in a new line that comes out not able to match the old cards. any info?

 

[MarcVenice]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-preparing-40nm-geforce-gt-240m--g210m/6954.html?doc=6954

Recently, DigiTimes reported that TSMC and UMC are making the 40nm GT218, GT216, GT215 and GT214 chips in late Q2. Now, VR-Zone has learned that Nvidia is preparing GeForce GT 240M and GeForce G210M for launch somewhere between May-June. However, there is still no sign of 40nm desktop parts yet but only the 40nm mobile parts. GeForce GT 240M is codenamed N10P-GS, a performance part which could be GT215 based while GeForce G210M is codenamed N10M-GS, a mainstream GT216 part.

Fail: "We will start to introduce products for the channel in the summer, when we are certain there will not be supply issues for our channel partners."

Mobile parts don't end up in the channel.

 

[SlowSpyder]

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now. Is this another Nvidia first like what was debated in the "ATI months ahead of NVIDIA with DirectX 11 GPU schedule?" thread?

In truth I don't care what process my GPU is made on, I just care about how it performs for the money. I do hope both Nvidia and AMD get their true next gen higher end parts out soon. I really like my 4870, but I wouldn't mind upgrading now that I have a 1920x1200 monitor.

 

[SunnyD]

Originally posted by: nyker96
what is the expected level of performance for these gt21x cards? I assume they will be below gts250 by the numbering but that doesn't seem to make much sense to put so much work in a new line that comes out not able to match the old cards. any info?

I haven't checked the latest, but last I knew Nvidia was calling their G9x series mobile parts "GTX280". They were just "launched" a few months ago.

 

[BenSkywalker]

what is the expected level of performance for these gt21x cards? I assume they will be below gts250 by the numbering but that doesn't seem to make much sense to put so much work in a new line that comes out not able to match the old cards. any info?

The GT21x moniker indicates the core, not the part. The GTS 250 is actually a G92 core chip, all of the GT2xx chips are faster then all of the G92 chips.

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by the seeming reactive response this otherwise passive information is receiving. Its an FYI, meant to be nothing more and nothing less.

Keys, please don't let the take-home message for yourself or your NV contacts be that of the negative sentiments voiced here. Some of us do like this update info, it beats nothing (or worse, speculation) which is all we would otherwise have were it not for your going to the effort to create this info thread. :thumbsup:

 

[taltamir]

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I don't see anything being launched here or implied to launch, not sure how this info could be interpreted that way.

Sorry - I thought it was clear. It appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to AMD actually shipping a 40nm part. You know, the whole "Hey, wait... me too! Look at me! We have 40nm parts too! Don't forget about us, over here! Yeah, we have em... we just... uh... can't tell you what they are yet!"

While I don't doubt they are working on 40nm designs and probably have samples of SOMETHING in 40nm, they obviously wanted to put out this little piece of news to their press-monkeys so as not be "left behind".

Again, I'm sorry for the confusion. I thought brevity would be a better way to go.

amd has a 40nm part available in stores?

 

[TC91]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by the seeming reactive response this otherwise passive information is receiving. Its an FYI, meant to be nothing more and nothing less.

Keys, please don't let the take-home message for yourself or your NV contacts be that of the negative sentiments voiced here. Some of us do like this update info, it beats nothing (or worse, speculation) which is all we would otherwise have were it not for your going to the effort to create this info thread. :thumbsup:

100% agreed. Thanks for the info Keys and keep up the good work .

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

what is the expected level of performance for these gt21x cards? I assume they will be below gts250 by the numbering but that doesn't seem to make much sense to put so much work in a new line that comes out not able to match the old cards. any info?

The GT21x moniker indicates the core, not the part. The GTS 250 is actually a G92 core chip, all of the GT2xx chips are faster then all of the G92 chips.

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Nvidia would never release a PR statement about the process tech their GPU's are made on.

I have nothing against Nvidia, sorry if I sounded overly negitive. Just a bit sour over the other thread I guess. Carry on.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by the seeming reactive response this otherwise passive information is receiving. Its an FYI, meant to be nothing more and nothing less.

Keys, please don't let the take-home message for yourself or your NV contacts be that of the negative sentiments voiced here. Some of us do like this update info, it beats nothing (or worse, speculation) which is all we would otherwise have were it not for your going to the effort to create this info thread. :thumbsup:

Well, you have to admit that Nvidia does like to try and steal the spotlight away from AMD any chance they get.

-On the 40nm 4770 launch, Nvidia announces they have their own transition to 40nm, but currently have no available 40nm product and won't have any for some time to come.

-On the 4890 launch, Nvidia also announces the release of their GTX 275. But it is in limited quantities until they can ramp up production a few weeks later. They could have easily chosen to stockpile cards until they had enough cards for a hard launch but instead chose a soft launch in order to time its release with AMD's 4890 launch date.

-On the eve of the 4850/4870 launch, Nvidia contacts AnandTech and tries to convince the reviewers to put more emphasis on PhysX and CUDA in an attempt to make AMD cards look like a poor choice compared to their Nvidia counterparts. The resulting information contained in the HD 4890 review regarding this attempt causes the entire Nvidia PR department to pop a collective aneurysm.

It's nice to know that Nvidia is hard at work on their own 40nm cards, but given what we've seen in the past, the timing of this announcement doesn't seem like much of a coincidence given that the NDA on the 40nm 4770 was officially lifted this morning.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Originally posted by: taltamir

Originally posted by: SunnyD

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I don't see anything being launched here or implied to launch, not sure how this info could be interpreted that way.

Sorry - I thought it was clear. It appears to be a knee-jerk reaction to AMD actually shipping a 40nm part. You know, the whole "Hey, wait... me too! Look at me! We have 40nm parts too! Don't forget about us, over here! Yeah, we have em... we just... uh... can't tell you what they are yet!"

While I don't doubt they are working on 40nm designs and probably have samples of SOMETHING in 40nm, they obviously wanted to put out this little piece of news to their press-monkeys so as not be "left behind".

Again, I'm sorry for the confusion. I thought brevity would be a better way to go.

amd has a 40nm part available in stores?

Newegg has 5 different 4770's listed, 4 of the brands are in stock. Not sure about actual stores like say Best Buy. But you can buy a 40nm part right now, yes.

 

[taltamir]

i completely missed that card, pretty neat looking.

 

[Idontcare]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by the seeming reactive response this otherwise passive information is receiving. Its an FYI, meant to be nothing more and nothing less.

Keys, please don't let the take-home message for yourself or your NV contacts be that of the negative sentiments voiced here. Some of us do like this update info, it beats nothing (or worse, speculation) which is all we would otherwise have were it not for your going to the effort to create this info thread. :thumbsup:

Well, you have to admit that Nvidia does like to try and steal the spotlight away from AMD any chance they get.

-On the 40nm 4770 launch, Nvidia announces they have their own transition to 40nm, but currently have no available 40nm product and won't have any for some time to come.

-On the 4890 launch, Nvidia also announces the release of their GTX 275. But it is in limited quantities until they can ramp up production a few weeks later. They could have easily chosen to stockpile cards until they had enough cards for a hard launch but instead chose a soft launch in order to time its release with AMD's 4890 launch date.

-On the eve of the 4850/4870 launch, Nvidia contacts AnandTech and tries to convince the reviewers to put more emphasis on PhysX and CUDA in an attempt to make AMD cards look like a poor choice compared to their Nvidia counterparts. The resulting information contained in the HD 4890 review regarding this attempt causes the entire Nvidia PR department to pop a collective aneurysm.

It's nice to know that Nvidia is hard at work on their own 40nm cards, but given what we've seen in the past, the timing of this announcement doesn't seem like much of a coincidence given that the NDA on the 40nm 4770 was officially lifted this morning.

I am not here to defend Nvidia's business practices, just trying to explain them in the rarte instances where it appears to me that folks are misunderstanding the why's and the how's that go along with the when's and the what's.

As for the business practices you highlight, I am not an NVDA shareholder but if I were a shareholder and NV were NOT doing something to actively stifle/muffle/counter any advantage their competition was generating then I'd be pissed and irritated by what I'd consider an executive management team neglecting their fiduciary responsibilities to me, the shareholder.

I'd say the same of AMD if their management let NV generate an advantage for themselves that went unchallenged or uncontested or unmuffled by AMD.

These two companies aren't dating or courting each other for marital purposes; they are locked in corporate warfare seeking to steal each other's pending sales.

There's nothing noble or honorable about pulling punches in their world unless they become non-profit businesses and grow a pair of .org website domains. Any perceptions of honor or nobility that you have for AMD over NV is either to their credit for effectively duping you into believing so, or to their discredit for not capitalizing on opportunities to their shareholders benefit in the way that their competition does for their shareholders.

It's just business for them.

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
These two companies aren't dating or courting each other for marital purposes;

Imagine this dude hitting on her?!

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: Idontcare

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker

So basically it's a PR response and they have nothing right now.

It isn't PR, it is more of a we have been nagging Keys to find out if nV has 40nm rolling yet and he got the answer to the question. nV knows they don't sell a build process, if anyone was going to release a PR statement about nV being at 40nm it would be TSMC, not nVidia.

Agreed. I'm puzzled by the seeming reactive response this otherwise passive information is receiving. Its an FYI, meant to be nothing more and nothing less.

Keys, please don't let the take-home message for yourself or your NV contacts be that of the negative sentiments voiced here. Some of us do like this update info, it beats nothing (or worse, speculation) which is all we would otherwise have were it not for your going to the effort to create this info thread. :thumbsup:

No worries. I expected nothing less, but was hoping for a more, "mature" reception.
Any other little tidbits I get, I'll pass along.

 

[Creig]

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I am not here to defend Nvidia's business practices, just trying to explain them in the rarte instances where it appears to me that folks are misunderstanding the why's and the how's that go along with the when's and the what's.

As for the business practices you highlight, I am not an NVDA shareholder but if I were a shareholder and NV were NOT doing something to actively stifle/muffle/counter any advantage their competition was generating then I'd be pissed and irritated by what I'd consider an executive management team neglecting their fiduciary responsibilities to me, the shareholder.

I'd say the same of AMD if their management let NV generate an advantage for themselves that went unchallenged or uncontested or unmuffled by AMD.

These two companies aren't dating or courting each other for marital purposes; they are locked in corporate warfare seeking to steal each other's pending sales.

There's nothing noble or honorable about pulling punches in their world unless they become non-profit businesses and grow a pair of .org website domains. Any perceptions of honor or nobility that you have for AMD over NV is either to their credit for effectively duping you into believing so, or to their discredit for not capitalizing on opportunities to their shareholders benefit in the way that their competition does for their shareholders.

It's just business for them.

Perhaps it is just business, but sometimes people get fed up with overaggressive marketing practices. Nvidia got a healthy taste of that when Derek and Anand finally relented to Nvidia's repeated requests to include PhysX and CUDA coverage in an ATI video card review. Of course, the overall tone of that coverage was probably not what Nvidia had in mind. I expect they will probably be a bit more circumspect in future communications with AnandTech staff.

If a company has a true reason to post a news release, that's fine. But don't put out a random bulletin every time your competition has a new product just to attempt to deflect attention away from it. It only makes you look desperate or petty.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: Creig

Originally posted by: Idontcare
I am not here to defend Nvidia's business practices, just trying to explain them in the rarte instances where it appears to me that folks are misunderstanding the why's and the how's that go along with the when's and the what's.

As for the business practices you highlight, I am not an NVDA shareholder but if I were a shareholder and NV were NOT doing something to actively stifle/muffle/counter any advantage their competition was generating then I'd be pissed and irritated by what I'd consider an executive management team neglecting their fiduciary responsibilities to me, the shareholder.

I'd say the same of AMD if their management let NV generate an advantage for themselves that went unchallenged or uncontested or unmuffled by AMD.

These two companies aren't dating or courting each other for marital purposes; they are locked in corporate warfare seeking to steal each other's pending sales.

There's nothing noble or honorable about pulling punches in their world unless they become non-profit businesses and grow a pair of .org website domains. Any perceptions of honor or nobility that you have for AMD over NV is either to their credit for effectively duping you into believing so, or to their discredit for not capitalizing on opportunities to their shareholders benefit in the way that their competition does for their shareholders.

It's just business for them.

Perhaps it is just business, but sometimes people get fed up with overaggressive marketing practices. Nvidia got a healthy taste of that when Derek and Anand finally relented to Nvidia's repeated requests to include PhysX and CUDA coverage in an ATI video card review. Of course, the overall tone of that coverage was probably not what Nvidia had in mind. I expect they will probably be a bit more circumspect in future communications with AnandTech staff.

If a company has a true reason to post a news release, that's fine. But don't put out a random bulletin every time your competition has a new product just to attempt to deflect attention away from it. It only makes you look desperate or petty.

Having a focus group members drop a thread in a tech forum regarding the status of their transition to 40nm could hardly be considered a news release or aggressive marketing IMO. Honestly, I don't really see how this takes any supposed thunder away the 4770, which most enthusiasts don't really care about anyway.

Basically, what I'm saying is that most people will either care about the 40nm transition because of it's future impact on the high end, OR they might be eying the 4770 as a potential purchase. I doubt you will have many people that fit both descriptions.

 

[SirPauly]

Am I missing something?

How is Key's helping the community out by getting nVidia's response on .40, a diatribe on over aggressive PR?