Nvidia 3D

[ImpulsE69]

Not sure whether to put this in audio/video or here, but I figure more gamers might be able to answer this.

I recently bought a 3D capable TV and have the glasses for it. I have a GTX480 in my pc. I installed the 3D drivers and hooked the pc up to the TV. I set everything up and I was able to see 3D in the setup tests. I then booted up Batman Arkham Asylum and turned the 3D on in it.

My tv shows that the 3D mode is on (1920x1080 in 24hz) but Batman is not displaying in 3D. When I go into the Nvidia control panel, the options to "configure" the depth, etc are greyed out.

I feel I must be missing something here. I have active shutter glasses, when stereoscopic 3d is turned on in batman shouldn't it display as such when you start the game...or do I need the Nvidia 3DTV Play app to make this work?

My understanding was all i needed was the 3d drivers, the 3d tv and the glasses...

 

[Nebor]

You need the 3dtv play app to make it work unless your TV is 3dvision compliant, which it almost certainly isn't.

Then you'll be disappointed by playing at 720p, and never do it again.

 

[ImpulsE69]

Interesting. I wonder why the Nvidia setup works fine? It also says for it to be in 3D it has to be in 1920x1080 @ 24hz. I've read something before about it having to be in 720p though. I would think if the game is set to play in 3D, then it should be broadcasting in 3D (side by side I assume) regardless of the display, which would mean you shouldn't need an external app.

 

[Nebor]

Actually you can play 1080p@24hz now that I think about it, but it doesn't seem very smooth.

What TV model do you have? Have you visited the Nvidia forum?

 

[HeXen]

3D TVplay is required when using TV's 3d glasses. I belive the PS3 has this or something similar already built into Firmware.

Now as to why you need it for 3D native games and not for 3D native BR movies i have no clue. I can understand why as far as non native 3D content, but if the game has 3D option, then it should work 3d without imo.

 

[disappoint]

What you really need is a 120hz display then you can play 1080p 60hz (each eye)

 

[Aikouka]

3D TVplay is required when using TV's 3d glasses.

Not necessarily. 3D TV Play is required for using 3D over HDMI, which uses a very different method of transmission compared to nVidia's nVision 3D.

I belive the PS3 has this or something similar already built into Firmware.

Technically it does. It's a very interesting thing, because the PS3 technically cannot support 3D natively, because it only has a HDMI 1.3 port. If I remember correctly, Sony actually uses some functionality in the Cell processor to handle what would normally be handled by a HDMI 1.4-compatible controller.

Although, the whole "must have 1.4" has always irked me a bit. The thing is, HDMI 1.3 can flawlessly support every 3D transmission method except for Frame Packing (used in Blu-Ray movies and a few other things). Frame Packing will push the audio beyond its normal position in the data stream (since it has 2 video frames + 20 pixel buffer), which a HDMI 1.3 device will not know to look for that. Every other (HDMI) transmission method uses half a frame per eye.

Now as to why you need it for 3D native games and not for 3D native BR movies i have no clue.

It's actually simple. A 3D Blu-Ray movie is already encoded with both frames. I don't know exactly what the player has to do to send it, but I assume it's relatively trivial.

It's important to remember that the rendering process for any 3D content essentially smooshes it onto a 2D plane (which is what you see on the monitor). nVidia's 3D TV Play adds an extra step to the process that generates the left and right eye frame. Technically, the nVidia 3D Vision does the same thing.

I can understand why as far as non native 3D content, but if the game has 3D option, then it should work 3d without imo.

To be honest, I'm not too sure about this, because I don't know the intricacies of nVidia's implementations. nVision 3D sends data over DVI-D at double the usual rate (120Hz, 60Hz per eye). So they're technically already generating a left and right eye frame. The only issue is that HDMI 1.4's spec only allows for a few different resolutions (the common ones are 1080p24, 720p60, 720p50). For an easy transition, nVidia could simply combine both of the frames into a 720p60 transmission, and it should work flawlessly. 24Hz would be weird... mostly because the timing is off.

Hell, it could just be for a cash grab given nVidia's 3D TV Play is not free.

EDIT:

To note, AMD's HD3D also requires that you buy middleware just to use it too, so it's not like nVidia is doing something odd. I believe that is only if the game doesn't support it, which only a few (e.g. Deus Ex 3) do.

 

[HeXen]

Not necessarily. 3D TV Play is required for using 3D over HDMI, which uses a very different method of transmission compared to nVidia's nVision 3D.



Technically it does. It's a very interesting thing, because the PS3 technically cannot support 3D natively, because it only has a HDMI 1.3 port. If I remember correctly, Sony actually uses some functionality in the Cell processor to handle what would normally be handled by a HDMI 1.4-compatible controller.

Although, the whole "must have 1.4" has always irked me a bit. The thing is, HDMI 1.3 can flawlessly support every 3D transmission method except for Frame Packing (used in Blu-Ray movies and a few other things). Frame Packing will push the audio beyond its normal position in the data stream (since it has 2 video frames + 20 pixel buffer), which a HDMI 1.3 device will not know to look for that. Every other (HDMI) transmission method uses half a frame per eye.



It's actually simple. A 3D Blu-Ray movie is already encoded with both frames. I don't know exactly what the player has to do to send it, but I assume it's relatively trivial.

It's important to remember that the rendering process for any 3D content essentially smooshes it onto a 2D plane (which is what you see on the monitor). nVidia's 3D TV Play adds an extra step to the process that generates the left and right eye frame. Technically, the nVidia 3D Vision does the same thing.



To be honest, I'm not too sure about this, because I don't know the intricacies of nVidia's implementations. nVision 3D sends data over DVI-D at double the usual rate (120Hz, 60Hz per eye). So they're technically already generating a left and right eye frame. The only issue is that HDMI 1.4's spec only allows for a few different resolutions (the common ones are 1080p24, 720p60, 720p50). For an easy transition, nVidia could simply combine both of the frames into a 720p60 transmission, and it should work flawlessly. 24Hz would be weird... mostly because the timing is off.

Hell, it could just be for a cash grab given nVidia's 3D TV Play is not free.

EDIT:

To note, AMD's HD3D also requires that you buy middleware just to use it too, so it's not like nVidia is doing something odd. I believe that is only if the game doesn't support it, which only a few (e.g. Deus Ex 3) do.

thanks for the info. Maybe you can tell me what the hell the 3D option is exactly on my Sony Tv. I don't have shutter glasses, so i can't test anything.
But if you turn it on, the screen is fuzzy...but does this make everything that comes onscreen into 3d? Would that mean i wouldnt need 3dTV Play IF the game/movie is 3d native? Do i turn it on for a 3d br movie or 3d ps3 game?

Or do you have to turn this feature on in order to view 3d native content anyway? if so, it would be a pain to turn both 3dtv play on and this on too.
guess i should just get me some glasses and test it cause the manual is completely worthless. it doesnt say squat about watching 3d stuff.

 

[ImpulsE69]

It is probably your tv's 2D->3D converter. It may also have a setting that you can select which type of 3D content is being sent to the tv. While this works, it is only so so because your tv is interpreting what is supposed to be 3D.

Many TV's autodectect 3d content and turn on the 3D mode. Mine (Sharp 70735U) does this when I enable the Nvidia 3D.

You are correct about 24hz seeming slow. It has a "delay" of sorts. This really seems like some sort of oversight or plan to force upgrades at a later time since 120hz/240hz TV's are not the same as 120hz PC displays.

On that note I decided I'm not that interested in playing in 3D to bother with the extra software and lower resolution. I'm content to play in 2D

 

[Aikouka]

thanks for the info. Maybe you can tell me what the hell the 3D option is exactly on my Sony Tv. I don't have shutter glasses, so i can't test anything.
But if you turn it on, the screen is fuzzy...but does this make everything that comes onscreen into 3d? Would that mean i wouldnt need 3dTV Play IF the game/movie is 3d native? Do i turn it on for a 3d br movie or 3d ps3 game?

Or do you have to turn this feature on in order to view 3d native content anyway? if so, it would be a pain to turn both 3dtv play on and this on too.
guess i should just get me some glasses and test it cause the manual is completely worthless. it doesnt say squat about watching 3d stuff.

The 3D option on your TV is telling it that the signal that it is receiving has been encoded for 3D. Although, it sounds like your TV is trying to display it as a 3D signal without actually checking to see if it is in fact 3D. It might be something similar to what ImpulsE69 is talking about, but not 2D to 3D, but rather 3D to 3D. That may sound strange, but as an example, my 3D TV only handles the checkerboard format (it's a Mitsubishi DLP), and I actually use a (Mitsubishi) converter between my AVR and my TV. If I remember correctly, when I tell the converter that I have a 3D source, but the source is actually 2D, it will produce a rather weird, distorted picture.

In regard to 2D to 3D conversions, I think it would be rather hard for most systems to do this in real time. It's important to remember that video games are laid out in a 3D world, which is then rendered onto a 2D plane. It isn't hard (relatively ) to establish a 3D picture when the scene is still in 3D, but when all you get is a 2D picture... that's not the same case.