NV30 uses DX8.1/DX8 by default in CS:S beta.
- Thread starter VIAN
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Schadenfroh
Elite Member
- Mar 8, 2003
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And....so? We all knew the FX series was pretty poor at the source engine's DX9 render path....is there something new here?
Those "sponsored links" are almost as annoying as the "you are teh winnar" flashing banner ads... almost.
Otherwise, good article and something other sites will have to decide as well.
Otherwise, good article and something other sites will have to decide as well.
That's correct. The article was worded a little confusingly, but FX series cards apparently can not be forced to run DX9 at all in the CS:S beta or the Source Tech Demo.
Valve should give advanced users the option of doing so, but there appears to be only tiny differences between 8.1 and 9.0 rendering anyway.
Even after all this time and all these driver updates it's still not enough for Valve...
Before, it was just a really early beta, it might have changed, it might not, but it seems as though it hasn't.
PPL need to understand this.
Even though HL2 is optimized for ATI , it's not Valve's fault that NV30 sucks in DX9.
You just see it more intensively in HL2, which is a brilliant DX9 game.
Even though HL2 is optimized for ATI , it's not Valve's fault that NV30 sucks in DX9.
You just see it more intensively in HL2, which is a brilliant DX9 game.
So you need HL2 game in order to grasp the meaning of my words? Or do you expect NV30 suddendly to "fly" in HL2? After all those benchmarks all that remains is the confirmation of the inevitable.
While the R3x0 series is obviously superior to the NV3x regarding DX9 performance, I find it suspect that Valve is apparently refusing FX owners the ability to run the DX9 path on DX9 compliant hardware. IMO this is a shady move intended to cover up the performance improvements that NV have implemented since the "ATI Shader Days" a year ago. ATI and Valve have too much of an interest in each other to admit that NV has improved since then.
We've all seen the driver improvements that have come with the 50 (and now 60) series Forceware drivers over the original 40s used in Valve's benchmarks, and I highly doubt that those benchmarks from last year are anywhere near accurate anymore... but we may never know.
Agreed.That can be the case.
On the other hand HL2 runs better in ATI cards by a significant margin even with X800XT and 6800U cards compared.
My guess is that even though NV3x perf has been improved the last months it's most likely that they can't provide it in HL2. I don't think in such a heavily optimized DX9 game for ATI , NV3x can manage it in DX9 enviroment.
The only card that can do the trick IMO is 5950 from the previous gen.
I think Valve is telling the truth..
It may be a suport issue, in that Valve may not want FX owners to switch on DX9 rendering and then deluge their support center with performance complaints. Or it may be that, as Valve gave up with DX9 on the FX series, they optimized the DX9 path for the R300+ and NV40+ instead (IIRC, FX series had a different optimal instructions/texture mix than the R300, and I'm guessing NV40 is closer to R300 in terms of its preferred instruction mix).
it's not a bad move by Valve. Forcing the FX cards to run DX 9 doesn't do anything graphically, so they left them with only dx8/8.1 support. you can't make a card run PS 3.0 if it doesn't support it right?
Originally posted by: jim1976
So you need HL2 game in order to grasp the meaning of my words? Or do you expect NV30 suddendly to "fly" in HL2? After all those benchmarks all that remains is the confirmation of the inevitable.
You are making an assumption based on a game that is not out yet. The benchmarks do show ATi having a lead over Nvidia, but lets wait until the final product hits, if it ever does. The longer it takes to come out, the longer Nvidia has to work on it's drivers.
nitromullet
Diamond Member
- Jan 7, 2004
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I see the point that some of you are making here, but I doubt the enabling a command line switch that forces the game to run the DX9 path for the FX series would hurt their tech support. I think the only people who would use this would be enthusiasts to satisfy their curiousity.
If it doesn't do anything, why do any of the cards use it? Also, this isn't the same situation as PS 3.0. The FX cards officially support DX9, so you should be able to play any game written in DX9 on these cards. I think having the option to run the DX8 path for cards that don't support DX9 and/or perform poorly is a good idea. I just don't like the idea that we can't validate Gabe's claim about nV's HL2 DX9 performance.
If it doesn't do anything, why do any of the cards use it? Also, this isn't the same situation as PS 3.0. The FX cards officially support DX9, so you should be able to play any game written in DX9 on these cards. I think having the option to run the DX8 path for cards that don't support DX9 and/or perform poorly is a good idea. I just don't like the idea that we can't validate Gabe's claim about nV's HL2 DX9 performance.
Originally posted by: WicKeD
Originally posted by: jim1976
So you need HL2 game in order to grasp the meaning of my words? Or do you expect NV30 suddendly to "fly" in HL2? After all those benchmarks all that remains is the confirmation of the inevitable.
You are making an assumption based on a game that is not out yet. The benchmarks do show ATi having a lead over Nvidia, but lets wait until the final product hits, if it ever does. The longer it takes to come out, the longer Nvidia has to work on it's drivers.
Agreed. But don't expect 6800U to catch X800XT and more importantly don't expect NV3x to do any better. That CAN'T HAPPEN. It may shorten the gap between 6800U and X800XT but certainly don't expect NV30 to suddendly boost perf and make it a different card in HL2. That is simply beyond imagination.
Benchmarks are indicators of perf, so you can't go wrong... DIII was delayed but did that changed anything? Nvidia is the undoubtful perf king in it.
I do agree that the NV30 will no way keep up with ATi. NV30 was a big mistake on the part of Nvidia. I do believe that the gap will be very narrow with the 6800 and XT once the final product is shipped. ATi however will still be tops.
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