• We’re currently investigating an issue related to the forum theme and styling that is impacting page layout and visual formatting. The problem has been identified, and we are actively working on a resolution. There is no impact to user data or functionality, this is strictly a front-end display issue. We’ll post an update once the fix has been deployed. Thanks for your patience while we get this sorted.

Nurture VS Nature Question

edro

Lifer
I have always "known"(been tought) that mammals and stuff is "given" knowledge of how to survive. Like how a baby "knows" how to suckle and cry immediately after it is born. And a sea turtle "knows" to walk to the ocean.

Could all these "given instincts" really be instantly self-learned skills? I have always been a 100% nurture type of person (my person opinion), and I think maybe instinct is really just instantly self taught skills.

What do you think? Please don't respond unless you have something insightful to say. 😀
 
I think it's both. You are born with certain abilities and your environment nurtures these abilities.


: ) Amanda
 
Originally posted by: ohtwell
I think it's both. You are born with certain abilities and your environment nurtures these abilities.

I understand the present theories, but I think EVERYTHING is self learned through experimentation or taught by an outside source, then learned.

 
instantly learned? wouldn't there be lots of failures, then? and then baby dolphins woudl drown.
 
Originally posted by: ElFenix
instantly learned? wouldn't there be lots of failures, then? and then baby dolphins woudl drown.

Yes, there would be tons, in fact millions of failures, all in a split second.
 
Originally posted by: edro13
Originally posted by: ElFenix
instantly learned? wouldn't there be lots of failures, then? and then baby dolphins woudl drown.

Yes, there would be tons, in fact millions of failures, all in a split second.

i don't think the nervous system could handle that.
 
It is both. Babies are born with certain instincts, like to suck and grasp. Those are not learned but are innate. However, as you are growing up, you are taught many things just by virtue of being an observant human being. It would be possible to find out just how much is innate but it would be pretty unethical.
 
Originally posted by: Spoooon
It is both. Babies are born with certain instincts, like to suck and grasp. Those are not learned but are innate. However, as you are growing up, you are taught many things just by virtue of being an observant human being. It would be possible to find out just how much is innate but it would be pretty unethical.

Yeah, yeah yeah..... I understand that.....

I think that suck and grasp are self taught, through experimentation of all other muscles, instantly...... So that NO skills are innate... but all self taught.
 
Originally posted by: edro13
Originally posted by: Spoooon
It is both. Babies are born with certain instincts, like to suck and grasp. Those are not learned but are innate. However, as you are growing up, you are taught many things just by virtue of being an observant human being. It would be possible to find out just how much is innate but it would be pretty unethical.

Yeah, yeah yeah..... I understand that.....

I think that suck and grasp are self taught, through experimentation of all other muscles, instantly...... So that NO skills are innate... but all self taught.

Well, the thing is your idea is untestable. All you are saying is that instincts are instantly self taught. And there is no way to prove that they aren't. Once you do some reading in the matter, you'll find that untestable ideas hold no water in the scientific community.

In a way, you are almost arguing semantics, replacing instincts with "instant learning."
 
Originally posted by: Spoooon
Originally posted by: edro13
Originally posted by: Spoooon
It is both. Babies are born with certain instincts, like to suck and grasp. Those are not learned but are innate. However, as you are growing up, you are taught many things just by virtue of being an observant human being. It would be possible to find out just how much is innate but it would be pretty unethical.

Yeah, yeah yeah..... I understand that.....

I think that suck and grasp are self taught, through experimentation of all other muscles, instantly...... So that NO skills are innate... but all self taught.

Well, the thing is your idea is untestable. All you are saying is that instincts are instantly self taught. And there is no way to prove that they aren't. Once you do some reading in the matter, you'll find that untestable ideas hold no water in the scientific community.

In a way, you are almost arguing semantics, replacing instincts with "instant learning."

Precisely. But I think the body goes through a very intense testing period for the first second or so it comes out of the womb (or egg, or whatever) where it actually goes through a large list of testing EVERY process possible with it's given tools (body).

 
Well, you're free to think what you want, but you'll probably be in a very small pool of people that believe as you do. 😉
 
As Spoooon has already pointed out, you've constructed your hypothesis in a way that makes it impossible to prove or disprove, which certainly leaves you the option of believing it if you like.

Of course, I could construct an equally untestable hypothesis: it's not "instantly self taught" skills at all -- it's those space aliens that are hidden on the far side of the moon. They "mind link" to all new borns at the moment of birth to "download" the necessary survival skills. You see they're still feeling guilty about that accident with the dinosaurs...

But (a little more) seriously, I have to ask why all babies acquire the same "instantly self-taught skills" (such as the suck and grasp you mention)? It can't be because they all experience the same environment when born. We should be seeing some babies who don't suck or grasp, but can immediately crawl, smile, focus on distant objects, and even talk? The fact that this doesn't happen has to suggest to you that there's some sort of predisposition to "instantly" learn only certain things. But, of course, this predispostion leads you down the road to the instints you seem to want to disbelieve.
 
I remember seeing this psych program where they tried to make a baby crawl across an abyss covered by a piece of glass, but he wouldn't do it. Isn't that instinctual?
 
Well in a way it is nature that does the "teaching" over time. To use your turtle example, the turtles that hatched and walked inland and away from the water failed bigtime 🙂

I remember seeing this psych program where they tried to make a baby crawl across an abyss covered by a piece of glass, but he wouldn't do it. Isn't that instinctual?

Actually the baby will cross it for a short while in its development, after it ages some though it won't.
 
"Instantly Learned"? Limiting my response to animals excluding humans, wouldn't that simply be another way of saying "instinct"?. I think the nature vs. nurture debate applies mostly to those beings with some sort of higher cognitive ability. A turtle simply "knows" how to swim because it's genetically programmed to do so, something like a higher form of a reflex (for lack of a better description). If it didn't it would die either from predation or starvation.

If I remember correctly human babies have the "innate" ability to hold their breath underwater. However, some babies need encouragement out of the womb (spanking?) to cry. A spanking creates pain and all organisms, in the most primitive sense, try to somehow avoid harm. Crying (calling for help) happens to be the only mechanism a baby would have (I'm getting off the beaten path here now).

Anyway, I don't believe in 100% nature or nurture, but instead a combination of both. There are gifted children in this world. For example, two children can be raised in exactly the same environment, but one excels scholastically, whilst the other is better at sports.

Here's another hypothetical, but realistic example:
There are two girls developing in wombs with different levels of estrogen. The one with higher levels of estrogen will have a more well-connected neural system in the brain and between the left and right sides (because that's one of the things estrogen does during development). This girl, given the same childhood environment, has a good possibility of being better at multi-tasking, language skills, and even overall cognitive ability.

Because "Instant Learning" isn't testable, to me it's kind of side-stepping the issue and taking a pseudo-scientific approach.

my $0.02
 
Back
Top