NT Server 4.0 Migration to Linux. Which Linux is the best?

[videoclone]

I?m an Administrator for a Medium sized Business and looking to upgrade from NT4.0 to Linux ?

At the moment we have 2 servers both on NT4.0 and around 70 Workstations all running Win XP Pro SP2

1 of the NT4 box?s is a DHCP domain server and also runs Exchange.

The second box runs a shared domain user authentication and is also used as a file server connected to a Dell Power Vault SCSI Array.

The machine I want to install Linux on is a Dell Power edge 700 P4 3.2Ghz, 1GB DDR400 ECC, 2x 74GB 10,000RPM SCSI drives in Raid 5, 1GBit Ethernet.

Now what I?m looking for is to keep both NT box?s running as file servers and thier selected Applications that only work on windows.

I wish to make the Power edge 700 server into a DHCP domain server with mail distribution. & Preferably with web mail functionality as we relay our mail through our web-domain host.

Why am I thinking of migrating to Linux? ?.. well this is only an alternative option instead of buying MS Server 2003 with Exchange that i'm treating as a last resort.

Other Applications that I would require would be

1. Linux Spam Filter
2. Linux Virus Software.
3. Linux FTP Hosting Software.

As this is a Mission Critical Setup. It is very important that after implementation that this system functions 100% stable.

Any ways that's about it i think /// But please before you reply with a string of Google links I'm more looking for an opinion and recommendations rather then an index of web sites.. but i guess any help would be more then appreciated

Thank you all in advance ^____^ Big smile.

 

[SomeDude22]

Red Hat is pretty good

 

[NetWareHead]

Try Suse Linux. When you migrate from a competitor OS (including NT4), you can save up to 50% off the price of the software. Novell has something called Open Enteprise Server which is based off of Suse Linux. Read about the promotion.

Read about Open Enterprise Server

Novell will probably offer assistance in migrating from windows to linux.

 

[drag]

Ya.

You'd probably want to take a look at 'Redhat ES 4.0'. Not that it's especially capable platform, but that Redhat offers support for it and it's perfectly capable to do everything you listed.

this is their pricing and support page:
http://www.redhat.com/software/rhel/compare/server/

They have different levels, and if you buy the standard price then you get a year of support thru the phone or from the web.

If you haven't bought the machine yet you can probably get Redhat thru Dell's configure stuff on their website. That way you know that all the hardware will be supported and if something doesn't work then you can get help from Dell for fixing it or replacing the peice.

There are certain machines, especially from Dell, that are certified by Redhat to work properly and will help with getting everything working with as little pain as possible.

Also Suse offers support and, I think, Dell will provide some support for, hardware-wise. Otherwise HP will have machines that they'll sell Suse bundled with.

As you may or may not know, Suse is now owned by Novell and they offer some interesting 'small business solutions' for Linux operating systems.


features for Novell's Linux Small Business Suite:
http://www.novell.com/products/linuxsmallbiz/features.html

That stuff is kinda interesting. It's a bit cheaper then MS's 'exchange server' style setup and includes stuff like 'Groupwise', which is Novell's version of the Exchange-style programs. Some people swear by it, other people swear at it. And they offer other products and services.

They even have a free eval version if you want to check it out.

If you don't need all that stuff, then they sell the Suse server stuff seperate if all you want is just Linux.


If you don't want to pay for anything at all and want something that is no cost and you want to support yourself then you still have lots of options.

For instance there is a free Redhat clone called 'CentOS' that is seperate from Redhat, but uses Redhat's own code to build a OS that matches it in terms of capabilities. Also Suse offers free downloads of their OS.

Personally I prefer Debian, but it's mostly for people that know how to set up all this sort of stuff on their own. It's nice, but it can be difficult to work with.

Also there is Mandrake and such, although that's mostly used for Desktop stuff.

Usually it's recommended that you pay for support, at least until you know for sure what is going on and all that. Just remember when configuring for a Dell server to see if they offer a version of Redhat to go with your configuration, that way you know that the hardware will be well supported (baring any bugs and such, of course).

 

[MrChad]

You're migrating a mission critical server that serves as both a domain controller and an Exchange server to a platform that supports neither? I understand that a linux solution may be cheaper to license than Server 2003, but won't migrating to a new authentication scheme and a new mail infrastructure be prohibitively expensive?

I'm not trying to flame you, I'm just curious about your rationale.

EDIT: NM about the domain controller comment. Randalee points out below that Samba can provide that functionality.

 

[bersl2]

There are already tons of articles out there which talk about migration. I quickly read over this one, but so many others are out there.

1. SpamAssassin
2. ClamAV
3. proftpd or vsftpd

 

[randalee]

Originally posted by: MrChad
You're migrating a mission critical server that serves as both a domain controller and an Exchange server to a platform that supports neither?

He can have his Linux server act as a domain controller for an NT-based domain if he wishes... Samba is what can deliver this functionality. And yes, EXCHANGE will not run on a Linux server, but there are a million alternatives to Exhange, to provide similar functionality.

The money thing is a BIG issue. Do you know what it is going to cost him to do that with Microsoft equivalents? Server 2003 licenses -- bucks. CALs for accessing the server x 50 workstations -- more bucks. Exchange Server license -- more bucks. Now he's going to need 50 CALs to access the Exchange server as well -- more BUCKS! Do you see how Microsoft gets ya?

Randy

 

[videoclone]

Mrchad

Migrating may not of been the right word to use.

I'm going to be installing this on a machine that?s not serving any major role and then following that up with allot of testing to see how this alternative works all without touching the existing setup .. Probably over a weekend when i can have a bit of a play and put everything back to normal for the Monday start.

I would also say this is more of an information gathering project if i find the risk outwighs the cost i'll just end up going with windows either way i wish to explore this alternative first.

Ohh when you say supports neither are you saying Linux doesn?t have web distribution software like Exchange and doesn?t act as a domain controller ?? does it work as a File server??? or grant WinXP Pro & NT4.0 access to drives it shares ?? Would i hafta run Emulation software??

Its a great comment but i'm not sure what you mean. 0_o

 

[videoclone]

Originally posted by: randalee

Originally posted by: MrChad
You're migrating a mission critical server that serves as both a domain controller and an Exchange server to a platform that supports neither?

He can have his Linux server act as a domain controller for an NT-based domain if he wishes... Samba is what can deliver this functionality. And yes, EXCHANGE will not run on a Linux server, but there are a million alternatives to Exhange, to provide similar functionality.

The money thing is a BIG issue. Do you know what it is going to cost him to do that with Microsoft equivalents? Server 2003 licenses -- bucks. CALs for accessing the server x 50 workstations -- more bucks. Exchange Server license -- more bucks. Now he's going to need 50 CALs to access the Exchange server as well -- more BUCKS! Do you see how Microsoft gets ya?

Randy

Randalee just to make your point stand out the cost of going with MS Server is around $15,000 Austrlaian ... thats just for MS server 2003 with 75Cals and Echange 2003 with 75Cals

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: videoclone
Mrchad

Migrating may not of been the right word to use.

I'm going to be installing this on a machine that?s not serving any major role and then following that up with allot of testing to see how this alternative works all without touching the existing setup .. Probably over a weekend when i can have a bit of a play and put everything back to normal for the Monday start.

I would also say this is more of an information gathering project if i find the cost will end up not being worth the time & risk i'll just end up going with windows either way i wish to explore this alternative first.

Ohh when you say supports neither are you saying Linux doesn?t have web distribution software like Exchange and doesn?t act as a domain controller ?? does it work as a File server??? or grant WinXP Pro & NT4.0 access to drives it shares ?? Would i hafta run Emulation software??

Its a great comment but i'm not sure what you mean. 0_o

I apologize. I didn't realize that Samba could serve as a domain controller.

The migration of Exchange seems like a big headache to me, but again, I'm not aware of all the alternatives out there. I'll keep an eye on this thread to see everyone's suggestions.

 

[drag]

Samba makes for a crappy Domain controller. Active Directory is probably the only way to realy do it when it comes to controlling stuff. Depends on what your needs are, if they are modest then SAMBA will work..

It will easily provide the same functionality of a NT controller, but it's not close to W2k standards.

If all you want out of Exchange is E-mail then Linux isn't going to be a problem. You setup a IMAP server, do anti-spam, anti-virus and all that is top notch in any free Linux. But if your users depend on features beyond that it's going to be a problem (calendering, etc)

The only real 'Large Enterprise'-style feature to feature comparision between Linux and Microsoft for Windows desktop is going to be coming from Novell.

You have Groupwise
http://www.novell.com/products/groupwise/

You have eDirectory (Novell's directory system. Will run on Novell's old stuff, Windows, Suse Linux and all that.)
http://www.novell.com/products/edirectory/

And other assorted do-dads.

Just all depends on exactly what you want.

 

[drag]

Here is something I found.

If you check out 'IBM DeveloperWorks' website they have a tutorial section.
http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/views/linux/libraryview.jsp?type_by=Tutorials

They have a 3 part 'linux-powered networking' tutorial and the 3rd part is about setting up a SAMBA-based domain controller.

It's not a very good overview, but it's just a 8 step proccess were you install a SAMBA rpm, do a basic configuration, and then have a Windows machine join the domain. Nothing biggy.. just like you'd do in a first or second level 'intro to linux' class.

 

[videoclone]

I'm a noob to Linux is this going to be a problem?

Ive upgraded a server from NT4.0 to 2003 in the past... setting up the user branch all that?s stuff moving over mail box's ext. ext. do you think Linux is going to be a pain in the butt or at the same difficulty level as 4.0 to 2003

Ohhh what kinda cost do you think i'm looking at for this kinda setup ... ??

 

[MrChad]

Originally posted by: videoclone
I'm a noob to Linux is this going to be a problem?

Ive upgraded a server from NT4.0 to 2003 in the past... setting up the user branch all that?s stuff moving over mail box's ext. ext. do you think Linux is going to be a pain in the butt or at the same difficulty level as 4.0 to 2003

Ohhh what kinda cost do you think i'm looking at for this kinda setup ... ??

I, for one, would not be comfortable migrating mission critical systems to a platform I wasn't familiar with. "Go with what you know." Isn't that an old adage in IT?

 

[drag]

Well..

Yes and no.

You have options for support. But official support costs money.

Redhat ES license is 349 dollars. That intitles you to 30 day installation support, and a year of updates, web support and phone support. They have a certain garrenteed turn around time (4 days for phone support).

Suse I am not so sure about the prices. They have the plain jane server setup, it's probably priced a bit cheaper.


Either one of those can be very nice. You can use SAMBA as a PDC, and file server, you can setup a IMAP server and anti-virus, anti-spam for no extra cost to the server. As well as standard network server (dhcp, dns, web server, etc).

The more esoteric features of Exchange you miss out on. As well as there isn't much in the way of Calendering or "collaberation" style services that people use Exhange for. (yet. it's being worked on and people substitute for things like these forums and instant messanging software)

This is pretty standard Linux stuff and is what it's very good at. Makes a great upgrade from a NT setup.

Novell has a small business server suite package for Suse that will replace all the Window's functoinality with equivilent stuff. This is quite a bit more expensive then just the plane jane Suse setup. They have other packages that may be smarter since you have more users.


As far as total costs, it ranges from $0 to several thousands. It all depends on what options you want, what level of support, and if you want to use non-Free software.

The only thing that would be realy smart is to get your hands on some of this software and get more familar with it.

You wouldn't want to deploy a NT server setup when you never have even seen a Windows PC before, would you? Same thing with Linux.

Plus you'd want a test enviroment you can mess around with, try different things out until you know more or less exactly what you want and how you want it setup. Then deploy.

There are no-cost versions of all the different software you may want to try out. Novell has free version of Suse called 'Suse Personal'.

They have eval versions of Suse Enterprise Server. They have eval versions Groupwise (Novell's Exchange equivelent, feature for feature pretty much) and other peices of software. So you can try this stuff out and see if you like it or not.

For Redhat you have CentOS, which is completley free. http://www.centos.org/
They use Redhat's own source code from their FTP servers to build it and even get help time to time from Redhat engineers themselves. But it's completely unsupported. It's worth it for saving money or trying it out on your own. Many people will run Redhat with support on more mission critical servers, and run CentOS on others so that you always have compatability with low cost.


I figure the best bet is to go down to Dell or whatever. They currently have a special for there PowerEdgeTM SC420 servers.

329 dollars, no OS (or 1 year of support from Redhat for a additional 349 dollars). Upgrade that guy with a additional 256 megs of RAM for 99 bucks. Install Suse on it, try it out. Install Redhat/CentOS on it, try it out. Play around and get familar with how everything works. Try some setups, put some old desktops on a LAN with it and try out e-mail, dns, dhcp, and things like that.

Then if you like it, work on getting a setup going then transfer that over to your main server when you want to retire that NT stuff. You decide then how much you want to spend on it, if anything, or what levels of support you want or don't want.

If you don't like Linux at all after that point, then go back to windows and use the cheapo Dell server as a backup domain controller or stick a DVD drive or 3 in it for doing backups for email and important documents.

Of something like that.

It's very hard to recommend what's 'best' for situations like this. Everything has plusses and minuses.