Now US ponders attack on Iran

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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Now US ponders attack on Iran

Hardliners in Pentagon ready to neutralise 'nuclear threat' posed by Tehran

Julian Borger in Washington and Ian Traynor
Tuesday January 18, 2005
L=The Guardian]http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1392751,00.html[/L]

President Bush's second inauguration on Thursday will provide the signal for an intense and urgent debate in Washington over whether or when to extend the "global war on terror" to Iran, according to officials and foreign policy analysts in Washington.

That debate is being driven by "neo-conservatives" at the Pentagon who emerged from the post-election Bush reshuffle unscathed, despite their involvement in collecting misleading intelligence on Iraq's weapons in the run-up to the 2003 invasion.

Washington has stood aside from recent European negotiations with Iran and Pentagon hardliners are convinced that the current European-brokered deal suspending nuclear enrichment and intensifying weapons inspections is unenforceable and will collapse in months.

Only the credible threat, and if necessary the use, of air and special operations attacks against Iran's suspected nuclear facilities will stop the ruling clerics in Tehran acquiring warheads, many in the administration argue.

Moderates, who are far fewer in the second Bush administration than the first, insist that if Iran does have a secret weapons programme, it is likely to be dispersed and buried in places almost certainly unknown to US intelligence. The potential for Iranian retaliation inside Iraq and elsewhere is so great, the argument runs, that there is in effect no military option.

A senior administration official involved in developing Iran policy rejected that argument. "It is not as simple as that," he told the Guardian at a recent foreign policy forum in Washington. "It is not a straightforward problem but at some point the costs of doing nothing may just become too high. In Iran you have the intersection of nuclear weapons and proven ties to terrorism. That is what we are looking at now."

The New Yorker reported this week that the Pentagon has already sent special operations teams into Iran to locate possible nuclear weapons sites. The report by Seymour Hersh, a veteran investigative journalist, was played down by the White House and the Pentagon, with comments that stopped short of an outright denial.

"The Iranian regime's apparent nuclear ambitions and its demonstrated support for terrorist organisations is a global challenge that deserves much more serious treatment than Seymour Hersh provides," Lawrence DiRita, the chief Pentagon spokesman, said yesterday: "Mr Hersh's article is so riddled with errors of fundamental fact that the credibility of his entire piece is destroyed."

However, the Guardian has learned the Pentagon was recently contemplating the infiltration of members of the Iranian rebel group, Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK) over the Iraq-Iran border, to collect intelligence. The group, based at Camp Ashraf, near Baghdad, was under the protection of Saddam Hussein, and is under US guard while Washington decides on its strategy.

The MEK has been declared a terrorist group by the state department, but a former Farsi-speaking CIA officer said he had been asked by neo-conservatives in the Pentagon to travel to Iraq to oversee "MEK cross-border operations". He refused, and does not know if those operations have begun.

"They are bringing a lot of the old war-horses from the Reagan and Iran-contra days into a sort of kitchen cabinet outside the government to write up policy papers on Iran," the former officer said.

He said the policy discussion was being overseen by Douglas Feith, the under secretary of defence for policy who was one of the principal advocates of the Iraq war. The Pentagon did not return calls for comment on the issue yesterday. In the run-up to the Iraq invasion, Mr Feith's Office of Special Plans also used like-minded experts on contract from outside the government, to serve as consultants helping the Pentagon counter the more cautious positions of the state department and the CIA.

Crazy

"They think in Iran you can just go in and hit the facilities and destabilise the government. They believe they can get rid of a few crazy mullahs and bring in the young guys who like Gap jeans, all the world's problems are solved. I think it's delusional," the former CIA officer said.

However, others believe that at a minimum military strikes could set back Iran's nuclear programme several years. Reuel Marc Gerecht, another former CIA officer who is now a leading neo-conservative voice on Iran at the American Enterprise Institute, said: "It would certainly delay [the programme] and it can be done again. It's not a one-time affair. I would be shocked if a military strike could not delay the programme." Mr Gerecht said the internal debate in the administration was only just beginning.

"This administration does not really have an Iran policy," he said. "Iraq has been a fairly consuming endeavour, but it's getting now towards the point where people are going to focus on [Iran] hard and have a great debate."

That debate could be brought to a head in the next few months. Diplomats and officials in Vienna following the Iranian nuclear saga at the International Atomic Energy Agency expect the Iran dispute to re-erupt by the middle of this year, predicting a breakdown of the diplomatic track the EU troika of Britain, Germany and France are pursuing with Tehran. The Iran-EU agreement, reached in November, was aimed at getting Iran to abandon the manufacture of nuclear fuel which can be further refined to bomb-grade.

Now the Iranians are feeding suspicion by continuing to process uranium concentrate into gaseous form, a breach "not of the letter but of the spirit of the agreement," said one European diplomat.

Opinions differ widely over how long it would take Iran to produce a deliverable nuclear warhead, and some analysts believe that Iranian scientists have encountered serious technical difficulties.

"The Israelis believe that by 2007, the Iranians could enrich enough uranium for a bomb. Some of us believe it could be the end of this decade," said David Albright, a nuclear weapons expert at the Institute for Science and International Security. A recent war-game carried out by retired military officers, intelligence officials and diplomats for the Atlantic Monthly, came to the conclusion that there were no feasible military options and if negotiations and the threat of sanctions fail, the US might have to accept Iran as a nuclear power.

However, Sam Gardiner, a retired air force colonel who led the war-game, acknowledged that the Bush administration might not come to the same conclusion.

"Everything you hear about the planning for Iraq suggests logic may not be the basis for the decision," he said.

Mr Gerecht, who took part in the war-game but dissented from the conclusion, believes the Bush White House, still mired in Iraq, has yet to make up its mind.

"The bureaucracy will come down on the side of doing nothing. The real issue is: will the president and the vice president disagree with them? If I were a betting man, I'd bet the US will not use pre-emptive force. However, I would not want to bet a lot." [
 

SuperTool

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
14,000
2
0
The US does not have a credible threat against Iran after it invaded Iraq. It's showing its weakness in Iraq, and Iran is like 3 Iraqs. If you can't handle one, what are you gonna do with 4?
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US does not have a credible threat against Iran after it invaded Iraq. It's showing its weakness in Iraq, and Iran is like 3 Iraqs. If you can't handle one, what are you gonna do with 4?

This is just speculation. We are not going to attack Iran or have any plans to. At least I hope so.
 

halik

Lifer
Oct 10, 2000
25,696
1
81
geee i wonder what is going in Iran right now. I'm sure Iran will jsut chill after we hit em and casually pick up where the bombings left em :roll:

I hope someone in pentagon has some common sense, because otherwise Israel will be a glass parking lot the instance somethign american explodes in Iran
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,589
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Pentagon's responsibilities are to prepare scenarios and potential solutions for problem areas.

Then if the pols decide that they need a closer look, the military has some anwers available.

Called War Gaming.

This is done for every hot spot in the world with ifferent levels on intensity.

Many other critical ares are also planned out if ever needed.
 

GrGr

Diamond Member
Sep 25, 2003
3,204
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This is more than just basic level strategic planning. Iran is part of the orginal "Axis of Evil", remember?
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
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Capitol Hill Mulls 'Regime Change' in Iran
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,146342,00.html
WASHINGTON ? Though the Bush administration denies it has any designs on changing Iran's theocracy, members of Congress are planning ways to assist in a possible "regime change."

Movements are afoot in both the House and Senate to pass legislation that would enable the U.S. government to support foreign and domestic pro-democracy groups opposed to the current Islamic republic of Iran.

Aides for Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said the senator is drafting legislation that would resemble a bill he introduced in the last congressional session, the "Iran Freedom and Support Act." (search) Though the language in the new bill is being worked out, it is expected to echo the prior bill in that it would include financial assistance for opposition groups. The original bill did not make it to the Senate floor.

"By supporting the people of Iran, and through greater outreach to pro-democracy groups, we will hopefully foster a peaceful transition to democracy in Iran," Santorum said in a statement regarding his new proposal. "The bill also notes the futility of working with the Iranian government."

Though no hearings on the issue are currently on any committee schedules, the bill's timing corresponds with comments by President Bush in his inaugural address that the United States is on a mission to assist in democratization abroad. But while the president named Iran ? a member of the "axis of evil" and designated state sponsor of terrorism ? during his State of the Union address on Wednesday night, he made no suggestions that the United States would take any action against the Islamic regime.


"Iran remains the world's primary state sponsor of terror ? pursuing nuclear weapons while depriving its people of the freedom they seek and deserve. We are working with European allies to make clear to the Iranian regime that it must give up its uranium enrichment program and any plutonium re-processing, and end its support for terror. And to the Iranian people, I say tonight: As you stand for your own liberty, America stands with you," the president said.

On Thursday, the State Department denied that the administration has any plans to help depose the Muslim clerics who run the country.

"The United States has been very clear. It's officials have been very clear that we do not have a policy of regime change toward Iran. The United States has also been very clear that we support the aspirations of the Iranian people for freedom," he said.


While subtle, the references to the "aspirations of the Iranian people" reinforces widespread speculation that the United States, both covertly and publicly, is putting Iran, which is believed to be well into the development of a nuclear weapons program, on notice.

Publicly, in the House last month, Rep. Ileana Ros-Lehtinen, R-Fla., and more than 50 bipartisan co-sponsors, introduced the "Iran Freedom Support Act," which would provide, in part, financial assistance to opposition groups.

"I think we need to make sure that the people of Iran who don't support the radicalism of their mullah masters do not wither away and retreat, " Rep. Dana Rohrabacher, R-Calif., co-sponsor of the bill, told FOXNews.com. "There are people, especially among younger people, who fully understand the hypocrisy and utter corruption of the mullah regime. We need to support them."

But some on Capitol Hill are skeptical of the efforts to reform Iran, and suggest that a similar effort ? the "Iraq Liberation Act," passed in 1998 and revived before the current war ? resulted in U.S. support of exiles like Ahmad Chalabi (search) and the Iraqi National Congress (search). The exiles have been blamed, in part, for providing hyped-up evidence of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction program. Skeptics say they don't want to find out after a heavy investment of cash and lives that Iran wasn't the threat it was being made out to be nor do they want to be bogged down in anything resembling a "quagmire."

"The devil's in the details," said Norm Kurz, communications director for Sen. Joe Biden (search), D-Del., ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee and ardent critic of the way the Bush administration handled the war in Iraq.

"Obviously, this is more of the president's 'outline,' in his language, that we need to encourage democracy for people everywhere and encourage liberty ? all Americans share that broad vision," said Kurz. "But if we are talking about taking concrete steps to aid dissidents in whatever country, that's going to require a lot of review and also the question of how do we achieve that when we are stretched very thin in Iraq."

Mona Yacoubian, a Middle East expert for the Center for Strategic and International Studies (search), said it is unclear whether the United States has enough credibility in the region to pursue another regime change now, even if it is a non-military one. She said any group seeking to overthrow the dictatorial ayatollahs ? who have rendered seemingly moderate President Mohammad Khatami virtually powerless ? might not want to have the United States linked to their efforts.

"My gut reaction would be any time an opposition party in that part of world is somehow associated with the United States, its credibility suffers," she said.

Yacoubian said that while a strong underground democracy movement exists, and anti-Americanism is not nearly as high in Iran as it is in places like Saudi Arabia or Egypt, the U.S. invasion of Iraq and reports that the United States may next focus its attention on Iran have not warmed Iranians to the American cause.

But not everybody thinks the Americans would be unwelcome, said Stephen Schwartz, author of "The Two Faces of Islam: The House of Sa'ud from Tradition to Terror." He said regime change led by the United States in Iraq will no doubt have a domino effect of democracy across the region, beginning with Iran.

"The vocabulary I would use is 'accelerating transition,'" he said. "I believe the success of the Iraq election will be a tremendous encouragement of the reform movement in Iran. The Iranians will say, 'If the Iraqis can have this, why can't we?'"

He said strong reform movements and sympathetic clerics and government officials would be ready for U.S. assistance. "There is a reaction risk if it's not done intelligently or prudently," he added, noting that any regime change would have to be done through Iranian exiles and not military force.

"We cannot have a replay of Iraq for several reasons," he said, noting that military force might very well spark nationalism in Iran, turning the reformers against the United States. "I'm no fan of the hard-line ayatollahs, but they are not hated the way Saddam Hussein was in Iraq."

Another question posed is which opposition group would be eligible for the help. The Mujahhedin e-Khalq (search), which has been fighting in exile against the ayotollahs since 1979, primarily from their base in Iraq, are supported by the National Council of Resistance of Iran (search), also in exile. Lawmakers like Ros-Lehtinen have expressed support for the MEK in the past.

But the MEK remains on the State Department's list of terrorist organizations and is not a favorite of pro-Iranian reformers like Schwartz. "They are a Marxist cult," he charged.

Alireza Jafarzadeh (search), an Iranian-American formally associated with the NCRI, does not agree, and said the MEK should be taken off the terrorist list and given the assistance to overthrow the ayotollahs because they are the only ones with the means to do it.

"Since the Iraq war, the MEK has actually turned over all of its weapons to the U.S. military in Iraq and did not fight the Americans," he said, noting that the MEK has assisted the Americans with intelligence on the border. "I think any serious shift in policy toward Iran, which would include regime change, should review the status of MEK."
Looks like policy is changing to match the propaganda of the President.

Pretty soon, all of America will have smoke rolling out of its ears from it being blown up our arses.
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
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stop your unpatriotic bitching...we have always been at war with eastasia!
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Originally posted by: GrGr
The New Yorker reported this week that the Pentagon has already sent special operations teams into Iran to locate possible nuclear weapons sites.

However, the Guardian has learned the Pentagon was recently contemplating the infiltration of members of the Iranian rebel group, Mujahedin-e-Khalq (MEK) over the Iraq-Iran border, to collect intelligence. The group, based at Camp Ashraf, near Baghdad, was under the protection of Saddam Hussein, and is under US guard while Washington decides on its strategy.

...

However, others believe that at a minimum military strikes could set back Iran's nuclear programme several years. Reuel Marc Gerecht, another former CIA officer who is now a leading neo-conservative voice on Iran at the American Enterprise Institute, said: "It would certainly delay [the programme] and it can be done again. It's not a one-time affair. I would be shocked if a military strike could not delay the programme." Mr Gerecht said the internal debate in the administration was only just beginning.

"This administration does not really have an Iran policy," he said. "Iraq has been a fairly consuming endeavour, but it's getting now towards the point where people are going to focus on [Iran] hard and have a great debate."
This is the stuff that the Pentagon were always meant to do. Iran is not a friendly nation, although I personally believe that A) they have no aims outside their borders, and B) the country will democratize itself within the next 10 years on its own.

However, to sit on the sidelines passively while rumours of a nuclear programme are circulated... That's just foolish. Intel first, operations second. I would vastly prefer those operations to be nothing, but a well-placed bomb to set back Iran's nuclear ambitions sounds like a necessary evil.
 

ntdz

Diamond Member
Aug 5, 2004
6,989
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Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US does not have a credible threat against Iran after it invaded Iraq. It's showing its weakness in Iraq, and Iran is like 3 Iraqs. If you can't handle one, what are you gonna do with 4?

It has no credible threat? It can bomb the living sh!t out the country and destroy Iran's nuke program without using any ground forces.
 

B00ne

Platinum Member
May 21, 2001
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I wonder for how long those bombers would fly when the world puts an embargo on the US in return. But hey, the trade imbalance would be remedied in an instant.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US does not have a credible threat against Iran after it invaded Iraq. It's showing its weakness in Iraq, and Iran is like 3 Iraqs. If you can't handle one, what are you gonna do with 4?

This is just speculation. We are not going to attack Iran or have any plans to. At least I hope so.

Why don't you want the U.S to attack Iran?

The mullahs are going to stay in power for a good 20-30 more years.
 

Aimster

Lifer
Jan 5, 2003
16,129
2
0
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US does not have a credible threat against Iran after it invaded Iraq. It's showing its weakness in Iraq, and Iran is like 3 Iraqs. If you can't handle one, what are you gonna do with 4?

It has no credible threat? It can bomb the living sh!t out the country and destroy Iran's nuke program without using any ground forces.

We are not animals that bomb the sh!t out of a country.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
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Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US does not have a credible threat against Iran after it invaded Iraq. It's showing its weakness in Iraq, and Iran is like 3 Iraqs. If you can't handle one, what are you gonna do with 4?

It has no credible threat? It can bomb the living sh!t out the country and destroy Iran's nuke program without using any ground forces.

We are not animals that bomb the sh!t out of a country.
Honestly...who would honestly wish that on anybody.
I don't think he has seriously contemplated the logistics of that at all :p
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
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Originally posted by: B00ne
I wonder for how long those bombers would fly when the world puts an embargo on the US in return. But hey, the trade imbalance would be remedied in an instant.

So let me get this right...the entire world as a whole is going to put an embargo on the US?
 
Aug 14, 2001
11,061
0
0
Originally posted by: Aimster
Originally posted by: ntdz
Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US does not have a credible threat against Iran after it invaded Iraq. It's showing its weakness in Iraq, and Iran is like 3 Iraqs. If you can't handle one, what are you gonna do with 4?

It has no credible threat? It can bomb the living sh!t out the country and destroy Iran's nuke program without using any ground forces.

We are not animals that bomb the sh!t out of a country.

You don't have to 'bomb the sh!t' out of Iran to cripple its military and nuclear facilities.
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
9,717
2
0
Originally posted by: RabidMongoose
You don't have to 'bomb the sh!t' out of Iran to cripple its military and nuclear facilities.
Very true, but the word he used was "living" sh!t...implying he didnt care for casualties.
Also, bombing Iran's large nuclear power plants would be devastating.
Any penetration of the nuclear reaction outside the reator (aka a meltdown) will create a chernobyl like incident...brutal to say the least.
 

Tommunist

Golden Member
Dec 1, 2004
1,544
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0
Originally posted by: raildogg
Originally posted by: SuperTool
The US does not have a credible threat against Iran after it invaded Iraq. It's showing its weakness in Iraq, and Iran is like 3 Iraqs. If you can't handle one, what are you gonna do with 4?

This is just speculation. We are not going to attack Iran or have any plans to. At least I hope so.

a draft might do the trick....
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
7,024
0
0
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Originally posted by: PatboyX
stop your unpatriotic bitching...we have always been at war with oceania!

lmao but last year it was oceania!

thats what i said.

(although im pretty sure it was between east asia and eurasia, whatever. joke still holds)