Now that Vista disables EAX effects, would you still choose X-Fi?

[Auric]

Originally posted by: BD2003
Creative is the only company with the balls to actually require you to keep the CD that came with your card in order to properly use it's drivers.

Hasn't been the case for a number of years and was presumably due to decoder licensing issues. Perhaps they have subsequently reached a more flexible agreement with Dolby and DTS.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: BD2003
Creative is the only company with the balls to actually require you to keep the CD that came with your card in order to properly use it's drivers.

Hasn't been the case for a number of years and was presumably due to decoder licensing issues. Perhaps they have subsequently reached a more flexible agreement with Dolby and DTS.

The drivers you can download are not full featured. They are the mere basics, missing quite a few things. For the X-fi, no equalizer, calibration tool, etc.

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: BD2003
Creative is the only company with the balls to actually require you to keep the CD that came with your card in order to properly use it's drivers.

Hasn't been the case for a number of years and was presumably due to decoder licensing issues. Perhaps they have subsequently reached a more flexible agreement with Dolby and DTS.

The drivers you can download are not full featured. They are the mere basics, missing quite a few things. For the X-fi, no equalizer, calibration tool, etc.

The essential features are controlled via the Audio Console included with the driver package The rest are far from necessary or required and indeed may be considered superfluous. It is not unreasonable to decline hosting another 400MB just for those who are so careless as to lose the software they bought (licensed). As with most companies however, they will mail a replacement upon request. In actual practice though the disc images are available for download from other sources.

 

[Mem]

Now that Vista disables EAX effects, would you still choose X-Fi?

Personally I have stated this several times before,I don't really care about EAX and yes I have a Creative soundcard(Audigy 4).I would rather see a new open format for all ,so that Creative don't have the monopoly like they do with EAX.I'm not bothered about EAX and Vista.

 

[stretchy pants]

the thing im not sure people are getting here, is that it's not JUST EAX that is affected by this change. it's 3D audio in general.

i tried playing FEAR last night on vista. what did i get? stereo. i have an xfi and 5.1 and i get stereo out because of this.

 

[Auric]

http://www.openal.org/openal_vista.html

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: Auric

Originally posted by: BD2003
Creative is the only company with the balls to actually require you to keep the CD that came with your card in order to properly use it's drivers.

Hasn't been the case for a number of years and was presumably due to decoder licensing issues. Perhaps they have subsequently reached a more flexible agreement with Dolby and DTS.

The drivers you can download are not full featured. They are the mere basics, missing quite a few things. For the X-fi, no equalizer, calibration tool, etc.

The essential features are controlled via the Audio Console included with the driver package The rest are far from necessary or required and indeed may be considered superfluous. It is not unreasonable to decline hosting another 400MB just for those who are so careless as to lose the software they bought (licensed). As with most companies however, they will mail a replacement upon request. In actual practice though the disc images are available for download from other sources.

But when you download drivers for your nvidia/ati card, none of the *features* are inaccessible. I don't expect them to let you download the player apps, etc...all the REALLY superfluous stuff. But the lack of the equalizer is pretty big, as is the lack of the oddly branded THX setup console - those I consider to be basic parts that should not be left out. I couldn't imagine if you couldn't download

The biggest pisser though, more than the missing apps - they stop supporting their cards prematurely. The A1 is still at it's heart essentially the same as the A2,3,4. But while they kept on updating drivers for their newer cards, they blocked install on their older cards, even though it can and will use them just fine.

These are the kind of things that a company does only when they can get away with it. To try and extort you into buying a new card, that is 99.9% the same as the old one.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Mem

Now that Vista disables EAX effects, would you still choose X-Fi?

Personally I have stated this several times before,I don't really care about EAX and yes I have a Creative soundcard(Audigy 4).I would rather see a new open format for all ,so that Creative don't have the monopoly like they do with EAX.I'm not bothered about EAX and Vista.

OpenAL is no more open or advanced than DS3D. Sure, it's theoretically more "open", but you wont see any new competitors. You still need to rely on EAX for anything more than panning and simple reverb, even with OpenAL.

This is such a huge step backwards. Why is audio always treated as less important than graphics? I'll never understand.

I thought vista was supposed to be a step forward? Hey, look, now we're using your GPU to accelerate your desktop..how cool is that huh? *Whispers* But we're not using hardware acceleration for sound anymore on your desktop.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: stretchy pants
the thing im not sure people are getting here, is that it's not JUST EAX that is affected by this change. it's 3D audio in general.

i tried playing FEAR last night on vista. what did i get? stereo. i have an xfi and 5.1 and i get stereo out because of this.

I read more about it...it's not 3d audio in general...it's ALL AUDIO.

Looking at the diagram of vista's audio stack here:

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs...ista&message.id=1696&page=1&format=all

OpenAL and Asio can directly access hardware. Everything else is out of the question.

Audio stream can have effects added at the APO points, but that's all software.

So not only can you forget about DS3D and DS Acceleration, you can forget about crystalizer, CMSS, etc - unless it's being done in software. And if it's being done in software, you don't need the fancy hardware card, now do you?

I still fail to understand the rationale behind this.

 

[ViRGE]

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: stretchy pants
the thing im not sure people are getting here, is that it's not JUST EAX that is affected by this change. it's 3D audio in general.

i tried playing FEAR last night on vista. what did i get? stereo. i have an xfi and 5.1 and i get stereo out because of this.

I read more about it...it's not 3d audio in general...it's ALL AUDIO.

Looking at the diagram of vista's audio stack here:

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs...ista&message.id=1696&page=1&format=all

OpenAL and Asio can directly access hardware. Everything else is out of the question.

Audio stream can have effects added at the APO points, but that's all software.

So not only can you forget about DS3D and DS Acceleration, you can forget about crystalizer, CMSS, etc - unless it's being done in software. And if it's being done in software, you don't need the fancy hardware card, now do you?

I still fail to understand the rationale behind this.

The crystalizer and CMSS are post-processing effects I believe, so the changes in Vista shouldn't impact them.

 

[gwarbot]

I am not getting another Microcrap OS ever again, sorry people I hate the nt kernal,also I am going to revert back to linux.
MICROSOFT a blast to the past!

 

[RebateMonger]

n.m.

 

[Mem]

OpenAL is no more open or advanced than DS3D. Sure, it's theoretically more "open", but you wont see any new competitors. You still need to rely on EAX for anything more than panning and simple reverb, even with OpenAL.

BD2003:Simple point is only Creative cards can do EAX 3,4,5,one day with luck we might see a more open competition .Creative are the only old surviving company in the sound market,they have more or less killed off all their competitors.

If you want EAX 4 or 5 etc...only Creative will give you that,you can argue Creative have the right since they invented it ,but it sure kills competition.We don'`t need EAX unless Creative decide to allow all versions of EAX open for all sound companies.If not I say ditch it and invent something new , 100% free for all.

 

[A5]

Originally posted by: gwarbot
I am not getting another Microcrap OS ever again, sorry people I hate the nt kernal,also I am going to revert back to linux.
MICROSOFT a blast to the past!

Do you think the Win9x kernel was better?

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: Mem

OpenAL is no more open or advanced than DS3D. Sure, it's theoretically more "open", but you wont see any new competitors. You still need to rely on EAX for anything more than panning and simple reverb, even with OpenAL.

BD2003:Simple point is only Creative cards can do EAX 3,4,5,one day with luck we might see a more open competition .Creative are the only old surviving company in the sound market,they have more or less killed off all their competitors.

If you want EAX 4 or 5 etc...only Creative will give you that,you can argue Creative have the right since they invented it ,but it sure kills competition.We don'`t need EAX unless Creative decide to allow all versions of EAX open for all sound companies.If not I say ditch it and invent something new , 100% free for all.

Well, thats the problem - they have a patent lock on EVERYTHING. The only way we are going to get something new is if we start hearing with something other than our ears, or the patents expire.

 

[BD2003]

Originally posted by: ViRGE

Originally posted by: BD2003

Originally posted by: stretchy pants
the thing im not sure people are getting here, is that it's not JUST EAX that is affected by this change. it's 3D audio in general.

i tried playing FEAR last night on vista. what did i get? stereo. i have an xfi and 5.1 and i get stereo out because of this.

I read more about it...it's not 3d audio in general...it's ALL AUDIO.

Looking at the diagram of vista's audio stack here:

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs...ista&message.id=1696&page=1&format=all

OpenAL and Asio can directly access hardware. Everything else is out of the question.

Audio stream can have effects added at the APO points, but that's all software.

So not only can you forget about DS3D and DS Acceleration, you can forget about crystalizer, CMSS, etc - unless it's being done in software. And if it's being done in software, you don't need the fancy hardware card, now do you?

I still fail to understand the rationale behind this.

The crystalizer and CMSS are post-processing effects I believe, so the changes in Vista shouldn't impact them.

That's not what I'm understanding by looking at the diagram of the stack. Perhaps I'm wrong, and it can be done on the hardware after all of the mixing is complete, but from what I'm reading, ALL hardware acceleration in windows is gone, unless the program is completely bypassing the windows audio service, such as ASIO or OpenAL.

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: BD2003

But when you download drivers for your nvidia/ati card, none of the *features* are inaccessible. I don't expect them to let you download the player apps, etc...all the REALLY superfluous stuff. But the lack of the equalizer is pretty big, as is the lack of the oddly branded THX setup console - those I consider to be basic parts that should not be left out. I couldn't imagine if you couldn't download

I suspect you are in the minority to consider the equalizer and THX setup essential.

The biggest pisser though, more than the missing apps - they stop supporting their cards prematurely. The A1 is still at it's heart essentially the same as the A2,3,4. But while they kept on updating drivers for their newer cards, they blocked install on their older cards, even though it can and will use them just fine.

The drivers were unified a number of years ago too. Much of the software is understandably added value -indeed it has not all been universally included in order to offer lower price points. It is common industry practice to sell essentially modified versions of common hardware and software to sassify those varied demands while minimizing development and production costs. As savvy enthusiasts we should be happy that updated or added features only reliant upon the core hardware can be utilized on our older models.

These are the kind of things that a company does only when they can get away with it. To try and extort you into buying a new card, that is 99.9% the same as the old one.

LOL. Yeah, well, for-profit corporations are not philanthropic endevours and will naturally try to get away with what they can. Extortion is a rather extreme notion unless the individual is powerless to resist "upgrading" and while there are surely those amongst us who suffer such an affliction who's to blame, the dealer or the junkie?

 

[BD2003]

The drivers were unified a number of years ago too. Much of the software is understandably added value -indeed it has not all been universally included in order to offer lower price points. It is common industry practice to sell essentially modified versions of common hardware and software to sassify those varied demands while minimizing development and production costs. As savvy enthusiasts we should be happy that updated or added features only reliant upon the core hardware can be utilized on our older models.

I've had to hack drivers to get them to work on my A1 for years. I could easily download new drivers for my oldest Nvidia TNT2, however.

LOL. Yeah, well, for-profit corporations are not philanthropic endevours and will naturally try to get away with what they can. Extortion is a rather extreme notion unless the individual is powerless to resist "upgrading" and while there are surely those amongst us who suffer such an affliction who's to blame, the dealer or the junkie?

Well, naturally. Extortion might be an extreme way of describing it, but I don't think it's too far from the truth.

I buy Audigy 1.
I lose CD.
Want to download new drivers - I can't. New drivers do not install on Audigy 1. The site SAYS it does, but when you try to install it - no dice.
Old card, which works perfectly fine, is now a useless paperweight.
I still want 3d audio in games.
I go out and buy new card, made by creative, cause I don't have a choice, which is 99.9% the same as the old one.

That's pretty damn close to extortion, if I MUST have 3d audio, that is.

 

[eplebnista]

I always just use whatever sound device that comes integrated on the motherboard. I have never bought a sound card for my personal system.

 

[gwarbot]

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: gwarbot
I am not getting another Microcrap OS ever again, sorry people I hate the nt kernal,also I am going to revert back to linux.
MICROSOFT a blast to the past!

Do you think the Win9x kernel was better?

No in my boat they are equal for the home user, enterprise level nt is somewhat better.Now even worse vista is going down the drain.

 

[gsellis]

Originally posted by: gwarbot

Originally posted by: A5

Originally posted by: gwarbot
I am not getting another Microcrap OS ever again, sorry people I hate the nt kernal,also I am going to revert back to linux.
MICROSOFT a blast to the past!

Do you think the Win9x kernel was better?

No in my boat they are equal for the home user, enterprise level nt is somewhat better.Now even worse vista is going down the drain.

So, you go to Linux which will also not run those games. And that is a win? I suspect you were just using this opportunity for another ABM rant.

 

[santz]

i just bought a used x-fi xtreme music for $47 shipped!
gr8 card for that price! and about vista not using eax, i am sure some one will come up with drivers to make changes or something!

 

[0roo0roo]

not that i would support creative anyways, the sound card market is basically dead. screw the monopoly

 

[Auric]

Originally posted by: 0roo0roo
not that i would support creative anyways, the sound card market is basically dead. screw the monopoly

That's been said so many times over the years. One day it might prove true but even a broken clock is right twice a day.

 

[MTDEW]

HERES ANY creative install cd you want.