Now minimal wagers want a hike big enuf to afford a 2 bedroom apartment

[fskimospy]

Jesus Christ people. Raising minimum wage will do NOTHING but raise rent prices and every other price. Think about this. If I owned an apartment building and had a bunch of poor people living there and suddenly minimum wage gets a 200% increase?! Guess what MY ASS is doing right away? Increasing rent costs every fucking chance I get, because I know those low life losers were making it somehow before, therefore I also know that they now have extra money, and why should they get to keep it? Fuck that and fuck them. That shit is mine. Why? Because I know they have it to give, this is capitalism, and I am a business man. Therefore, I will take their money because that's just what you do here.
I raise my rent a little, and my neighbors will raise their rent prices to match, and their neighbors will do the same. In 2 or 3 years rent will go up by 20% and it will keep climbing and climbing until those minimum wagers are right back where they started; poor and struggling just like before.

The minimum wage has relatively little effect on inflation because not that many people make it and its effects are generally concentrated in a few economic sectors.

As for your idea that they would be no better off, no. Your scenario only makes sense if every building owner in the city did the same thing as you suggest, which is 1.) unlikely due to this being capitalism and all and 2.) it's probably illegal collusion.

 

[Moonbeam]

My Mom occasionally reminds me she could get 4000 a month for her basement I live in. Please don't post these kinds of threads. If I could afford to live where I am on minimum wage, my Mom might make me go to work.

 

[realibrad]

The minimum wage has relatively little effect on inflation because not that many people make it and its effects are generally concentrated in a few economic sectors.

As for your idea that they would be no better off, no. Your scenario only makes sense if every building owner in the city did the same thing as you suggest, which is 1.) unlikely due to this being capitalism and all and 2.) it's probably illegal collusion.

I agree that the minimum wage increase would not have a huge impact, it is a part of a much larger set of policies. I think you would agree that giving people things does not hurt as some would have you believe. The issue, is subsidization requires extraction from others. Attempting to tax the wealthy to subsidize the poor is an ineffective policy, because the wealthy hide their wealth after a certain point.

So, in a very general sense, boosting minimum wage, as a part of a larger set of social policies will do little to help, as you are trying to fill a tub with the water already in it. Unless you believe that the middle and lower income laborers don't spend their money as effectively as the government does, but I don't think you believe that.

 

[Moonbeam]

I agree that the minimum wage increase would not have a huge impact, it is a part of a much larger set of policies. I think you would agree that giving people things does not hurt as some would have you believe. The issue, is subsidization requires extraction from others. Attempting to tax the wealthy to subsidize the poor is an ineffective policy, because the wealthy hide their wealth after a certain point.

So, in a very general sense, boosting minimum wage, as a part of a larger set of social policies will do little to help, as you are trying to fill a tub with the water already in it. Unless you believe that the middle and lower income laborers don't spend their money as effectively as the government does, but I don't think you believe that.

We can always go Republican with fiscal responsibility and execute folk trying to hide wealth. Tough love is sometimes required.

 

[realibrad]

We can always go Republican with fiscal responsibility and execute folk trying to hide wealth. Tough love is sometimes required.

That works off the presupposition that Republicans are for fiscal responsibility. Both parties protect the wealthy. I think you are exaggerating the position of the Republicans to illustrate their position, but neither side wants to bite the hand that feeds.

 

[fskimospy]

I agree that the minimum wage increase would not have a huge impact, it is a part of a much larger set of policies. I think you would agree that giving people things does not hurt as some would have you believe. The issue, is subsidization requires extraction from others. Attempting to tax the wealthy to subsidize the poor is an ineffective policy, because the wealthy hide their wealth after a certain point.

While I would agree that the wealthy hide their wealth after a certain point, I don't think we've reached that point.

So, in a very general sense, boosting minimum wage, as a part of a larger set of social policies will do little to help, as you are trying to fill a tub with the water already in it. Unless you believe that the middle and lower income laborers don't spend their money as effectively as the government does, but I don't think you believe that.

I don't think that the government spends money more effectively than middle and lower income laborers, but I do believe the government can create policies that give them more money to spend overall.

 

[realibrad]

While I would agree that the wealthy hide their wealth after a certain point, I don't think we've reached that point.



I don't think that the government spends money more effectively than middle and lower income laborers, but I do believe the government can create policies that give them more money to spend overall.

In the interest of my time, Ill first bring up a concept, and if I need do, ill bring up data to support.

Do you believe that the reason the wealthy have offshore banking is usually to hide wealth? (Assumed answer is yes)

Do you believe offshore banking is far from zero cost (Assumed answer is no)

Do you think most wealthy people would be willing to offshore their wealth if there was a large risk of loss?

I think you are already seeing wealth being hidden. Its pretty well known that large companies hold capital reserves offshore, because having it in the US is too expensive. They would rather pay the costs of moving money around when they need it, vs paying us taxes. Its more expensive to hold capital in the US.

 

[Atreus21]

The thermometer says your kid is running 102.

You scratch out 102 and write in 98.6.

Fever cured.

 

[Sonikku]

I agree that the minimum wage increase would not have a huge impact, it is a part of a much larger set of policies. I think you would agree that giving people things does not hurt as some would have you believe. The issue, is subsidization requires extraction from others. Attempting to tax the wealthy to subsidize the poor is an ineffective policy, because the wealthy hide their wealth after a certain point.

Maybe it doesn't have to be a tax though. How much are the wealthy getting in hand outs at the expense of tax payers? How much are poor?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

We can always go Republican with fiscal responsibility and execute folk trying to hide wealth. Tough love is sometimes required.

15 years ago I'd agree with this statement, today not so much and how dare these minimum wage workers wanting enough money to pay rent! Its outrageous they should be happy on public assistance!

 

[Zaap]

It's called democracy. Sure back in the 50s and 60s when meat production was 6 times higher, durable goods production 5 times higher, and government spending was 20% of GDP. A minimum wage worker in this period would be called middle class today. But you can't vote to turn nearly half your economy to government bureaucrats to protect the environment from "evil capitalists" and ask for cradle to the grave welfare and expect your money to be worth as much as it was decades ago.

A thousand thumbs-up to this rare bit of common sense so lacking today.

 

[Subyman]

Wow, dreaming large. Two bed apartment...

Apartment is one step away from living on the streets. Not quite a huge demand from someone working full time. I see nothing wrong with their demands, doesn't mean it will happen.

 

[Matt1970]

The minimum wage has relatively little effect on inflation because not that many people make it and its effects are generally concentrated in a few economic sectors.

As for your idea that they would be no better off, no. Your scenario only makes sense if every building owner in the city did the same thing as you suggest, which is 1.) unlikely due to this being capitalism and all and 2.) it's probably illegal collusion.

You are right that not that many people make min wage, but when min wage goes up, everyone else goes up as well, otherwise we would end up all making the same wages.

 

[Ventanni]

Apartment prices are high because of three reason:

1a. A lot of individuals who used to be in houses are no longer in houses. They're now in apartments, so the demand for apartments in your area is likely a lot higher. To support this with anecdotal evidence, when I was searching for an apartment back in 2011, I was talking to apartment complexes who were giving me deals to move in for the first 3 months half off rent price. Today you absolutely will not find that.

1b. Rent prices continue to go up, and a lot of individuals who are still in apartments are receiving notices from their complex owners that the price of next year's is going up. Up up! So what are they doing? They're looking around, fueling the demand even more.

1c. Fewer people in houses means the property tax revenues have to come from somewhere.

2. This might be unique to Tampa, FL, but it might not. Tampa is a pretty spread out city, but I'm noticing that fewer people want to spend an hour driving to work for an hour every morning. It's like the individuals of my generation aren't content driving an hour to work every morning. So as a result, they're moving closer to the city center. This creates for a much higher demand for housing closer to the center than there was before.

3. There is a lot of renovation going on, and it's not just in apartment complexes. There are a lot of investment companies going around buying out houses, renovating them, and putting them up for rent. These companies want to see a return on their investment, and they have a right to do so. Higher quality means a higher price.

My prediction? I think rent prices are going to crash in the next few years. While owning is by no means cheap, there is something to be said when you can rent a 2 bedroom apartment for the same price as you can afford a 2000 sq/ft house. Heck, you can pay the mortgage on a 1000 sq/ft home here in Tampa for about half the price as you can rent a 1 bedroom apartment. Eventually people are going to catch onto that.

As the gentlemen above me stated, I can pay a mortgage on 1 week's pay. I cannot do that to pay my rent. Eventually they're going to level out.

 

[realibrad]

Maybe it doesn't have to be a tax though. How much are the wealthy getting in hand outs at the expense of tax payers? How much are poor?

Can you name a policy that takes money from the poor and gives it to the wealthy? Just about every issue I see, is that the poor get an effective tax rate higher than the rich, because the rich have the means to hide their wealth.

And, if you are going to give something to a group that is a net positive, then it must come from another group. It must always be a tax, as it cannot come from nothing. That may be a desirable thing to do, but it will always be a tax.

 

[ch33zw1z]

How dare they want to not share a room with their children.

 

[FDF12389]

How dare they want to not share a room with their children.

Shouldn't be having kids in High School.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

How dare they want to not share a room with their children.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sharing rooms with children is the norm for like 95% of the rest of the world.

 

[s0me0nesmind1]

2 br apt in Silicon Valley is $2000 per month. For it to be "affordable" that should not be > 1/3 of your income. So you $72K per year is minimum wage in Silicon Valley. That's actually not too far from the truth

Da Fuq? Some places are expensive to live, that is why PLENTY of people commute to Silicon Valley (even people making big bucks) because they know it simply isn't worth tossing that much money away on Rent/Real Estate. But you know what? Plenty of people are willing to pay that much, and that's called "Supply and Demand".

Maybe you should whip out your Economics 101 book again and take a look at the meaning of that term broceritops.

 

[DrPizza]

15 years ago I'd agree with this statement, today not so much and how dare these minimum wage workers wanting enough money to pay rent! Its outrageous they should be happy on public assistance!

And out the other side of their mouth: how dare these people be on public assistance. They should get a better education and better jobs.

 

[Anubis]

My prediction? I think rent prices are going to crash in the next few years. While owning is by no means cheap, there is something to be said when you can rent a 2 bedroom apartment for the same price as you can afford a 2000 sq/ft house. Heck, you can pay the mortgage on a 1000 sq/ft home here in Tampa for about half the price as you can rent a 1 bedroom apartment. Eventually people are going to catch onto that.

As the gentlemen above me stated, I can pay a mortgage on 1 week's pay. I cannot do that to pay my rent. Eventually they're going to level out.

its not just Florida, its like that where I live in NY. assuming you can pay the yearly property tax, owning a small house is cheaper vs renting

 

[ch33zw1z]

Shouldn't be having kids in High School.

Oh, sorry, didn't realize only teenagers received minimum wage.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.

Sharing rooms with children is the norm for like 95% of the rest of the world.

It's called the American dream. not the world dream.

 

[realibrad]

its not just Florida, its like that where I live in NY. assuming you can pay the yearly property tax, owning a small house is cheaper vs renting

Owning a house is only cheaper right now, because interest rates are very low, and home prices are low. Once you see people starting buying more homes, you will see demand push up prices. A mortgage that is 1k a month vs an apartment that is 1k a month, makes the apartment likely cheaper. Owing a home is not for everyone, but its part of the "American" dream so its what people try to get.

 

[realibrad]

It's called the American dream. not the world dream.

Does not make either a reality to strive for.

I would bet that the majority of people would like to be so rich, that they could have servants make dinner, clean, and do all the things they don't want to do. That dream could never be a reality, because, everyone cant have servants. Just because things are a dream, does not make it a good idea.