Now I think Gore will win (or "Oh No, not another election thread.")

[Optimus]

Well, from what I hear, if the Supreme Court upholds the Florida Supreme Court's decision (likely) and the Democrats argue sucesfully that the absentee ballots that the Republicans re-numbered are not legal (which seems it might be the current law) then Gore will have won the election.

Weird - I know some won't like it, but other than being mad or happy that he won, what do both sides honestly think about the election, and Gore's (potential) victory?

I don't know, if Gore does pull this off, I can't help but feel like the whole thing was a bit of a cheat - like Dallas' wining goal in the Stanley Cup 2 years ago - it technically fit a much argued and debated rule, but the whole series was forever tarnished!

 

[DefRef]

If Gore gets away with this theft, it'll forever put elections and the law into doubt. The voter will only be the first link in a chain that will end up in court with the "loser" attempting to rewrite the rules AFTER the game is played and using activist judges to award them the prize.

Think of it this way: In the World Series, they alternate using the DH based on where they're playing. If the NL team loses because their pitcher strikes out with winning runs on base, should they be able to appeal to the Commisioner by saying, "We had a better record thru the season than the AL team and our merchandise outsells theirs, so we are clearly the winner. Gimme!"?

I'm not to big a fan of Bush, but I've been absolutely sickened by Gore's smarmy "This is America" bullsh*t that he's been peddling this week, while Joe L. completely lies about the Constitution and the laws to bamboozle the public.

If Gore pulls this scam, it'll be like four more years of Clintion, but without the appealing facade that made us overlook his activities. Gore will be the crook that makes the public hate crime again.

Hmmm...maybe that wuld be a good thing.

 

[Spoooon]

CNN Analysis

<<At the behest of Vice President Al Gore, the Florida Supreme Court employed an &quot;equitable power&quot; to rewrite the Florida election statutes so that &quot;shall&quot; now means &quot;cannot,&quot; &quot;may&quot; now means &quot;must not,&quot; &quot;must&quot; now means &quot;need not,&quot; and &quot;seven days&quot; now means &quot;19 days.&quot; This is all to the same end: an attempt to rewrite the certified results of the election - which have been confirmed by no fewer than four official counts and recounts - so that &quot;Bush&quot; would now read &quot;Gore.&quot;

Basic fairness dictates that it is wrong to change the rules of a game after the game is over. Prior to this election, the people of Florida, through their elected legislature, set forth the rules by which this presidential election would take place: Counties were required to submit their election returns by November 14, 2000. If they failed to meet this deadline, Florida election officials either &quot;shall&quot; or &quot;may&quot; &quot;ignore&quot; the late returns.>> - Quote from article

edit: even better quote from the article.

Under that new deadline, the Democrat canvassing boards changed the rules again. Never before had a board counted &quot;dimpled&quot; ballots in a manual recount. Indeed, Palm Beach County's regulation explicitly stated that &quot;an indentation is not evidence of intent to cast a valid vote.&quot; These county boards, however, reversed course, and for the first time in Florida history decided to count &quot;dimpled&quot; ballots as votes.

 

[Optimus]

Its really odd - I've done my share of arguing and debating on the whole legal battle since election day, but this morning I heard the latest on the news, and suddenly I realized that I think Gore really will win. It put everyhing in a much different light, and gave me this really sinister, &quot;cheating&quot; feeling about the whole thing...

Anyone else think he is going to pull this off? If so, what is your view of the election now?

 

[ride525]

Come on spoon....lets be fair....that's hardly an &quot;article&quot;, it's CNN's analysis of the Bush filing.

There's one for Gore too!

CNN's analysis

 

[DefRef]

Gore says he wants all ballots counted, but had the military ballots tossed out because they tend to vote Republican. BUT, he'll take the votes of felons without any qualms.

Snip:

Since 1868, it has been illegal for felons to cast ballots in Florida...The Herald found 62 robbers, 56 drug dealers, 45 killers, 16 rapists and seven kidnappers who cast ballots. At least two who voted are pictured on the state's online registry of sexual offenders.

``There are a ton of us out there,'' said William Herman, 37, of Lake Worth, sentenced to five years in prison in 1989 for negligent homicide with a motor vehicle. ``It shouldn't be that way, but when they give you a voter registration card, hey, what are you supposed to do?&quot;

Clarence Eden Williams, 77, of Pahokee, also voted. His picture is posted on the state registry of sexual offenders for his crimes against children. His son was surprised his father cast a ballot.

``He's got Alzheimer's, and he can't even carry on a conversation anymore,'' said Clarence Williams III.

To find felony voters, The Herald compared a list of voters in those counties with a Department of Corrections database listing felons who had served at least a year in prison. If the pattern found in the study is the same statewide, more than 5,000 felons likely cast illegal ballots.

How do you feel about Gore winning with the support of felons, while disenfranchising (sick of that word) the men and women in uniform?

 

[ride525]

They story I saw about this showed the felons voted BOTH Democratic and Republican.....

And it was Bush's Campaign Co-Chair, the Florida Secretary of State (in charge of Elections in Florida) that wrote a memo, that said that the OVERSEAS ballots must be postmarked, by Florida law. Blaming just Gore for following Florida law is a bit of a stretch.

 

[wyvrn]

This thing has turned out to be a mess, and it is unlikley that any decisions at this point will be considered totally right or fair. There were discrepencies that mandated the courts looking at the voting process, but now it is more screwed up than in the beginning. I still say we should standardize the voting process and get rid of the old paper ballot system. Lets use our technology and get the % of error lowered. The results of FLA should never have gotten to the courts if done properly in the first place.

 

[Optimus]

But isn't an election more like a sporting event than we usually think? In the SuperBowl, mistakes happen, refs make calls, bias can exist, errors are made... but once the whistle blows, we don't have all the team lawyers going to court to argue who won. Americans wouldn't stand for it even in a game, why in an election?

This is like the Mets just went to court and had all the World Series Yankee wins turned over and thus the Mets won by default. There would be riots, and even Mets fans wouldn't stand for it!

All I'm saying is that mistakes are a certainty in anything as big as an election. Felons voted, ballots were not always done right...

But picking apart EVERYTHING from any possible angle? This doesn't make sense, but I think it worked.

 

[ride525]

<< All I'm saying is that mistakes are a certainty in anything as big as an election. >>



That's why there is the ability to &quot;contest&quot; the election....and that is why there are courts, to try and sort out these mistakes, and remedy them if possible.

 

[Valnir]

There is little to no chance that the absentee ballots will be thrown out.

1) because it will make Gore look like the hypocrit he is
2) Because the voters didn't do anything wrong.
3) And even if they do, it means that there will be appeal after appeal to try to get the Certified vote overturned which means that the Legislative will just pick the elector's.

But from what I have heard, the most likely outcome is the workers who filled in the voter's registration numbers (*which is all they did*) will get fined.

 

[DefRef]

The law about postmarks is being distorted by the Goreistas. Where's the post office on a Navy ship?

It cracks me up that they keep saying, &quot;The law says ballots must be postmarked.&quot;, so that they can throw out potential GOP votes, but turn around and say that the &quot;count your votes within 7 days&quot; law is arbitrary and should be ignored so that they can fake up some votes. Hypocrites!

Bush won the initial count. He won the mandated recount. He won the selective hand count. He won after the bogus extended deadline. Bush has won FOUR TIMES! Are we supposed to give Gore best-of-nine? Best-of-eleven? Best-of....?

 

[fdiskboy]

Good point, DefRef, but Gore doesn't want best of nine. He just wants last of n, n being the number of times the ballots were counted where last = Gore votes = Bush votes -1.

:|

 

[JellyBaby]

Gore and Censorman are...scum. After seeing what they and their party are trying to do in this election, I can easily understand how people continue to vote R.

The Rs aren't wearing virgin mary white, either. Their tactics are almost equally vicious and destructive. Almost. In modern politics it really doesn't matter who &quot;started it&quot; but who ends it. And the mainstream media loves it that way. Personally I was done with this story a week ago and can't believe Bore still feels he has an honest claim to the Throne. Hell, who am I kiddin? I never believed that. He and his chum Censorman are just as arrogant and greedy as any R has ever been with his loot.

Yet america passionately roots for their favorite. Go Rs! Go Ds! Truth, honesty, integrity, concern for the country and its citizens, long term solutions to this problem...all left in the backwater to decay as usual. Pathetic but not unexpected. Perhaps I expect too much of our government and my fellow citizens.

 

[Russ]

Optimus,

Gore won't win. In point of fact, he has already lost.

Let's assume for a minute that The Big Supremes uphold the decision of The Mini Supremes. So what? There still are not enough votes for Goresky to steal the election.

The Seminole County lawsuit is a loser for Gore. There isn't a REAL legal analyst anywhere that thinks Gore will prevail. A few political hacks maybe, but none of substance.

The recount suit in PBC and Miami-Dade will go nowhere. For the Judge to rule that they must AGAIN count these ballots, he would have to be in Albert's hip pocket.

Miami-Dade didn't want to do a recount to begin with. Then, Gore's Goons threatened to sue them. They start a recount, but complain that they can't finish by the LEGAL deadline set by the Legislature. So, again, the Goons sue and get an extra ELEVEN days. They STILL don't get done in time.

This Judge is not stupid, and I don't think he's partisan enough to make himself look like a fool in front of the entire world.

Russ, NCNE

 

[DefRef]

&quot;This Judge is not stupid, and I don't think he's partisan enough to make himself look like a fool in front of the entire world.&quot;

Maybe. But what if a nice seat on the U.S. Supreme Court waits for the lucky judge who makes the correct (for Gore) ruling?

 

[ride525]

<< But what if a nice seat on the U.S. Supreme Court waits for the lucky judge who makes the correct (for Gore) ruling? >>



Or Bush? Or not, since, the Justice nominee would have to be comfirmed, and wouldn't unless well qualified....and non-controversial...

 

[ToBeMe]

BREAKING NEWS from CNN.com
=!=!=!=!=!=!=!=!=!=!=!=!=!

-- Florida Supreme Court dismisses Gore request to speed up
contest

 

[Optimus]

Russ - good analysis, all I've really been hearing is the very pro-Gore media's spin on things, and the report I heard this morning had that the new view on things was a sure-fire Gore win.

Interesting stuff... I wish the media would just report the facts and leave their biases (for any side)at home.

 

[JellyBaby]

Optimus,

<< I wish the media would just report the facts and leave their biases (for any side)at home. >>

It ain't gonna happen. TV media is simply entertainment. It's up to you to adjust your filter in order to learn the facts and details of each story. I've found it's also best to stick with print journalism. Seems to me when people take their time to write down their thoughts they do a better, more credible job.