Intro:
Graduated from college a month ago, getting a brand new $4-5K system (system + all accessories) as a graduation gift. Off the top of my head, the apps I use the most are: Photoshop, After Effects, Illustrator, Maya, Premiere Pro, and some DotA/Starcraft on the side. I'm working in the motion graphics industry if that gives you an idea of the kind of apps I use a lot. I multitask quite a bit when I'm working so I'd like to be able to run all of the aforementioned programs concurrently; I'm talking multiple 400MB+ .PSD files open at the same time, some typographic tests running in an Illustrator window, some basic 3D modeling, all while doing some intensive RAM previews in AE.
As far as gaming is concerned, I'm looking forward to playing TF2, Crysis, UT3, Gears of War, Assasin's Creed, etc. I know that I will not be able to run these games anywhere near 60+ FPS with only a single 8800 Ultra; if anything, I plan to just drop the resolution down or turn down some of the details until games are playable. That is to say, I'm not that concerned with gaming at max details at 2560x1600; I also doubt that any of the aforementioned games will be able to run 2560x1600 max details even with SLI'd Ultras.
My priorities are having a powerful workstation first, but at the same time, I'd like to be able to game on this system. That is, I'm not looking to buy a work-only system such as a dual Xeon quad-core with a Quadro Plex, but I'm not enough of a hardcore gamer anymore to want to deal with SLI'd Ultra's (and it's associated cost).
I will update this thread from now until post-build (assuming there is any interest) and will cap it all off with pictures of my setup once it's all up and running. Hopefully this thread will be useful for others in a similar situation as mine. I plan to make my purchase immediately after the price cuts on the Q6600 take effect next week. I've cross posted this from HardOCP Forums as I wasn't getting many replies over there; seeing as this is such a large purchase I wanted to get as many opinions as possible.
Current System:
Pentium 2.4c (no longer OC's), Zalman CNPS7000A Cooler
Abit IC7-MAX3
2x512 TwinX 4000 Platinum
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
2x36 GB Raptors (no more RAID0 due to issues with certain apps, and it crashed once)
160GB and 200GB Internal HD, 500GB External HD
Pioneer DVR-110D Dual Layer Burner
Coolermaster ATC 111C-SX1 Case
Antec TrueBLUE 480W PSU
2x Samsung 191T 19" LCD
Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 System
Sennheiser 280HD Pro Headphones
Logitech MX1000 Mouse
Intuos2 6x8 Tablet
My current system, purchased/built in September 2003 and running WinXP, has held up quite well over these past four years. The only upgrades I've made have been the dual layer burner and a few extra hard drives. One of the biggest issues I have with my current system is that it's so noisy and emits quite a lot of heat. I can't even OC the P4 anymore without random crashes/reboots. Other reasons why I'm not satisfied with my current system anymore: can't run the latest games, insanely long processing times for Photoshop/After Effects, DVI+Analog LCD's side-by-side is absolutely terrible for design purposes (color mismatches), cannot multi-task as much as I'd like to without severe performance problems.
New System: Projected Build w/ Current Prices and Links (rebates not included)
Last Updated: July 18th, 2007 @ 1:00pm PST
---- System ----
$266.00* Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4Ghz * Assuming this is the price in one week.
$219.99 ASUS P5K DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
$64.99 Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler
$19.99 Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D 120mm Case Fan
$259.99 x 2 Patriot eXtreme 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 PC2 6400
$609.99 EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB
$169.99 Corsair CMPSU-620HX
$194.99 WD 150GB Raptor 10,000 RPM
$109.99 x 2 SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB
$33.99 Pioneer DVR-212D Dual Layer Burner
$169.99 Antec P182SE ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
---- $2489.88 : Sub-Total ----
---- Accessories ----
$1,269.00 Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" LCD
$69.99 Logitech G7 Wireless Mouse
$199.99 Vista 64-Bit Ultimate OEM
$199.99 Swan M200 2CH Hi-end Multimedia Speaker
$5.99 Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
---- $1744.96 : Sub-Total ----
$4234.84 : Total (no tax)
$4584.21 : Grand Total (with 8.25% CA sales tax)
Analysis of Components:
Dell 30" 3007WFP-HC: I finally got a chance to see a 30" HP at Costco the other day and I definitely want it even more now: the amount of desktop space is just plain ridiculous! I was considering flanking the 30" with both of my current 19" Samsung's, but this would require an additional video card (more heat and less airflow in my case). I'll probably end up using the other 19" as a dual monitor for my current PC (which I plan to connect to my TV and use as an HTPC).
Q6600: With the apps I use I feel that a quad-core processor is best for me. I'm interested in doing an air-only OC that doesn't drive temps too high (low 3's is realistic on air from what I've read); however, I'd much rather have a cooler, quieter running system than getting a slightly higher overclock.
P5K Deluxe: From the reviews I've read, this looks like a quality motherboard that will be able to overclock my Q6600 easily, as well as being compatible with future 8-core Penryn chips in case I decide to upgrade in a few years. This option to upgrade to Penryn is AFAIK not available if go with the 680i.
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme: Initially had concerns with the lapping that some of these HSF's required, but after reading up more on the subject it seems to be very well within "doable without disaster" levels. Also, the string of replies all suggesting I ditch the Zalman 9700 was somewhat disconcerting; so I've decided to hope for the best with this cooler.
Scythe S-FLEX 120mm Fan: Seems to be a popular choice to combine with the Thermalright. This appears to be the slowest of the three S-FLEX fan's offered on NewEgg; I assume it will be sufficient for my needs while also being the most quiet out of the bunch.
Patriot eXtreme 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2 PC2 6400: After some more focused research, I've found that there are very significant benefits to be had when using 8GB RAM with Vista 64-bit and CS3 applications. Without going into too much depth, CS3 can allocate the full 4GB of RAM per app; running multiple CS3 applications therefore can benefit from having additional RAM. Reference links: Adobe Forums, Adobe Help.
EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB: After some more research into SLI, I've decided that a single card solution is the best option for me: less driver issues, less heat and power consumption, increased stability with Intel motherboard, and I think it's absolutely crazy to even entertain the notion of spending $1300 on video cards that will likely be surpassed by a single card solution within one year (if not much sooner).
Corsair CMPSU-620HX: This seems to be the popular PSU to get for those that need lots of power as well as low noise levels.
150GB Raptor: After running into some problems with my old RAID0 setup (a drive died, lost everything, etc.), I've decided to go back to a single HD setup for my OS with additional, slower, storage drives for everything else. From my past research, there seems to be a fair amount of people who say that the benefits of RAID0 are miniscule - feel free to correct me if this situation has changed within the last four years.
2x500GB Samsung's: Cheap and massive storage. Hell, considering throwing in a third cause they're so cheap.
P182E: After reading some reviews, I've come to the conclusion that this case fits my needs perfectly in terms of decreasing the amount of noise and heat from my system. I don't plan on having more than 2-3 internal storage HD's (in addition to the Raptor) and I crave a quiet PC which is why I went with this case over the P900.
Logitech G7 Wireless Mouse: I've been using an MX900 with my laptop and a MX1000 with my desktop: I much prefer the more compact nature of the MX900, thus I'm going with the G7 for my new desktop.
Windows Vista Ultimate: Despite having heard nothing but bad things about Vista, I feel as if I am forced into purchasing this OS over WinXP. It just doesn't seem logical to use WinXP on such a powerful new system.
Swan M200: I was worried about some quality control regarding these speakers but I cleared that issue up with an e-mail to Jon Lane of TheAudioInsider, his response:
"We did indeed have a small batch of bad amps, but we deal with them under warranty -- Owners reporting problems are sent a replacement pair at our cost, and the existing pair are call-tagged by FedEx. In other words, there's no cost. All current M200 stocks are brand new and we believe any chances for repeat defects have been minimized. Regardless, you'd be 100% covered under our dual satisfaction and product warranties."
Summary and some questions:
I told myself after I built my last PC that I'd just buy a Dell next time, in order to avoid spending countless hours scouring forum posts and hardware review sites in search of detailed information. Alas, here I am again, this time with a post that I've spent two months updating/rewriting on my end before finally posting it a week prior to my build. Any and all general input and tips/advice are greatly appreciated. As for my upgrade path, I don't upgrade too frequently; the only upgrade I am actually planning for is possibly a new Penrynn chip in a few years if these massive Intel price cuts keep happening, as well as possibly a new video card 1-2 years down the line. I've also got a couple of specific questions that I'm hoping someone can answer:
A) For people that own the P182E case, as well as any of the parts on the above list, have you had any issues of getting things to fit properly without resorting to extreme measures? Of particular concern are the video card, length of PSU cables, and the Thermalright (as well as the combination of all these components).
B) I was just wondering if anyone had purchased the 3007WFP-HC from Costco? Or is ordering direct from Dell SB the preferred method (what kind of discount have you guys been able to swing lately?). The only thing I'm somewhat worried about is that Dell might be shipping their "lower quality" revision panels to Costco Online, while selling the "better" panels through their own site. Other than this most likely unfounded concern, I'm not really seeing any reason reason to order through Dell rather than Costco Online.
C) Will I have issues with the four sticks of Patriot eXtreme RAM (2GB each)? I know that I'll have to install Vista with just one 2GB stick and then install a patch to enable me to use the other three sticks. Just wondering if the P5K Deluxe combined with this brand of memory will have any other issues? Also, would I be able to get by with any cheaper RAM if I don't intend to OC past 3.0ghz? 3.0 is my target OC, using four sticks of 2GB DDR2 RAM.
D) Part of me wants to drop $200 on that new DiNovo keyboard; the other part of me thinks I'm crazy to even consider spending $200 on a keyboard. The keyboard is probably the last component that I haven't really decided on yet; I'm currently using a standard Dell keyboard that was part of a really old pre-built PC that I purchased maybe 7+ years ago. That is to say, I don't -think- I'm that picky with keyboards. I prefer typing on my Thinkpad's keyboard, but I prefer working/gaming on a standard keyboard that doesn't have such low-profile keys. Basically, looking for some thoughts on whether I really need any of these new fancy keyboards such as the DiNovo or the G11/G15 - or if I should just stick with instinct and get your everyday $10 keyboard.
Edits:
7/20 @ 9:45am - Cleaned up the post a bit, cross-posted to Anandtech forums for more opinions, changed questions.
7/18 @ 1:00pm - Added another 4GB ram, dropped 9x12 tablet (realized I can live with 6x8 for now), updated latest pricing, changed questions.
7/18 @ 12:49am - Reformatted price list to more easily see where the money is going with this build.
7/17 @ 1:10am - Added some info regarding Swan M200's.
7/16 @ 12:15am - Ditched Zalman 9700 for Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme + Scyth S-FLEX 120mm Case Fan.
Graduated from college a month ago, getting a brand new $4-5K system (system + all accessories) as a graduation gift. Off the top of my head, the apps I use the most are: Photoshop, After Effects, Illustrator, Maya, Premiere Pro, and some DotA/Starcraft on the side. I'm working in the motion graphics industry if that gives you an idea of the kind of apps I use a lot. I multitask quite a bit when I'm working so I'd like to be able to run all of the aforementioned programs concurrently; I'm talking multiple 400MB+ .PSD files open at the same time, some typographic tests running in an Illustrator window, some basic 3D modeling, all while doing some intensive RAM previews in AE.
As far as gaming is concerned, I'm looking forward to playing TF2, Crysis, UT3, Gears of War, Assasin's Creed, etc. I know that I will not be able to run these games anywhere near 60+ FPS with only a single 8800 Ultra; if anything, I plan to just drop the resolution down or turn down some of the details until games are playable. That is to say, I'm not that concerned with gaming at max details at 2560x1600; I also doubt that any of the aforementioned games will be able to run 2560x1600 max details even with SLI'd Ultras.
My priorities are having a powerful workstation first, but at the same time, I'd like to be able to game on this system. That is, I'm not looking to buy a work-only system such as a dual Xeon quad-core with a Quadro Plex, but I'm not enough of a hardcore gamer anymore to want to deal with SLI'd Ultra's (and it's associated cost).
I will update this thread from now until post-build (assuming there is any interest) and will cap it all off with pictures of my setup once it's all up and running. Hopefully this thread will be useful for others in a similar situation as mine. I plan to make my purchase immediately after the price cuts on the Q6600 take effect next week. I've cross posted this from HardOCP Forums as I wasn't getting many replies over there; seeing as this is such a large purchase I wanted to get as many opinions as possible.
Current System:
Pentium 2.4c (no longer OC's), Zalman CNPS7000A Cooler
Abit IC7-MAX3
2x512 TwinX 4000 Platinum
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128MB
2x36 GB Raptors (no more RAID0 due to issues with certain apps, and it crashed once)
160GB and 200GB Internal HD, 500GB External HD
Pioneer DVR-110D Dual Layer Burner
Coolermaster ATC 111C-SX1 Case
Antec TrueBLUE 480W PSU
2x Samsung 191T 19" LCD
Klipsch ProMedia 2.1 System
Sennheiser 280HD Pro Headphones
Logitech MX1000 Mouse
Intuos2 6x8 Tablet
My current system, purchased/built in September 2003 and running WinXP, has held up quite well over these past four years. The only upgrades I've made have been the dual layer burner and a few extra hard drives. One of the biggest issues I have with my current system is that it's so noisy and emits quite a lot of heat. I can't even OC the P4 anymore without random crashes/reboots. Other reasons why I'm not satisfied with my current system anymore: can't run the latest games, insanely long processing times for Photoshop/After Effects, DVI+Analog LCD's side-by-side is absolutely terrible for design purposes (color mismatches), cannot multi-task as much as I'd like to without severe performance problems.
New System: Projected Build w/ Current Prices and Links (rebates not included)
Last Updated: July 18th, 2007 @ 1:00pm PST
---- System ----
$266.00* Q6600 Kentsfield 2.4Ghz * Assuming this is the price in one week.
$219.99 ASUS P5K DELUXE/WIFI-AP LGA 775 Intel P35 ATX Intel Motherboard
$64.99 Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme CPU Cooler
$19.99 Scythe S-FLEX SFF21D 120mm Case Fan
$259.99 x 2 Patriot eXtreme 4GB (2x2GB) DDR2 PC2 6400
$609.99 EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB
$169.99 Corsair CMPSU-620HX
$194.99 WD 150GB Raptor 10,000 RPM
$109.99 x 2 SAMSUNG SpinPoint T Series HD501LJ 500GB
$33.99 Pioneer DVR-212D Dual Layer Burner
$169.99 Antec P182SE ATX Mid Tower Computer Case
---- $2489.88 : Sub-Total ----
---- Accessories ----
$1,269.00 Dell 3007WFP-HC 30" LCD
$69.99 Logitech G7 Wireless Mouse
$199.99 Vista 64-Bit Ultimate OEM
$199.99 Swan M200 2CH Hi-end Multimedia Speaker
$5.99 Arctic Silver 5 Thermal Compound - OEM
---- $1744.96 : Sub-Total ----
$4234.84 : Total (no tax)
$4584.21 : Grand Total (with 8.25% CA sales tax)
Analysis of Components:
Dell 30" 3007WFP-HC: I finally got a chance to see a 30" HP at Costco the other day and I definitely want it even more now: the amount of desktop space is just plain ridiculous! I was considering flanking the 30" with both of my current 19" Samsung's, but this would require an additional video card (more heat and less airflow in my case). I'll probably end up using the other 19" as a dual monitor for my current PC (which I plan to connect to my TV and use as an HTPC).
Q6600: With the apps I use I feel that a quad-core processor is best for me. I'm interested in doing an air-only OC that doesn't drive temps too high (low 3's is realistic on air from what I've read); however, I'd much rather have a cooler, quieter running system than getting a slightly higher overclock.
P5K Deluxe: From the reviews I've read, this looks like a quality motherboard that will be able to overclock my Q6600 easily, as well as being compatible with future 8-core Penryn chips in case I decide to upgrade in a few years. This option to upgrade to Penryn is AFAIK not available if go with the 680i.
Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme: Initially had concerns with the lapping that some of these HSF's required, but after reading up more on the subject it seems to be very well within "doable without disaster" levels. Also, the string of replies all suggesting I ditch the Zalman 9700 was somewhat disconcerting; so I've decided to hope for the best with this cooler.
Scythe S-FLEX 120mm Fan: Seems to be a popular choice to combine with the Thermalright. This appears to be the slowest of the three S-FLEX fan's offered on NewEgg; I assume it will be sufficient for my needs while also being the most quiet out of the bunch.
Patriot eXtreme 8GB (4x2GB) DDR2 PC2 6400: After some more focused research, I've found that there are very significant benefits to be had when using 8GB RAM with Vista 64-bit and CS3 applications. Without going into too much depth, CS3 can allocate the full 4GB of RAM per app; running multiple CS3 applications therefore can benefit from having additional RAM. Reference links: Adobe Forums, Adobe Help.
EVGA GeForce 8800 Ultra 768MB: After some more research into SLI, I've decided that a single card solution is the best option for me: less driver issues, less heat and power consumption, increased stability with Intel motherboard, and I think it's absolutely crazy to even entertain the notion of spending $1300 on video cards that will likely be surpassed by a single card solution within one year (if not much sooner).
Corsair CMPSU-620HX: This seems to be the popular PSU to get for those that need lots of power as well as low noise levels.
150GB Raptor: After running into some problems with my old RAID0 setup (a drive died, lost everything, etc.), I've decided to go back to a single HD setup for my OS with additional, slower, storage drives for everything else. From my past research, there seems to be a fair amount of people who say that the benefits of RAID0 are miniscule - feel free to correct me if this situation has changed within the last four years.
2x500GB Samsung's: Cheap and massive storage. Hell, considering throwing in a third cause they're so cheap.
P182E: After reading some reviews, I've come to the conclusion that this case fits my needs perfectly in terms of decreasing the amount of noise and heat from my system. I don't plan on having more than 2-3 internal storage HD's (in addition to the Raptor) and I crave a quiet PC which is why I went with this case over the P900.
Logitech G7 Wireless Mouse: I've been using an MX900 with my laptop and a MX1000 with my desktop: I much prefer the more compact nature of the MX900, thus I'm going with the G7 for my new desktop.
Windows Vista Ultimate: Despite having heard nothing but bad things about Vista, I feel as if I am forced into purchasing this OS over WinXP. It just doesn't seem logical to use WinXP on such a powerful new system.
Swan M200: I was worried about some quality control regarding these speakers but I cleared that issue up with an e-mail to Jon Lane of TheAudioInsider, his response:
"We did indeed have a small batch of bad amps, but we deal with them under warranty -- Owners reporting problems are sent a replacement pair at our cost, and the existing pair are call-tagged by FedEx. In other words, there's no cost. All current M200 stocks are brand new and we believe any chances for repeat defects have been minimized. Regardless, you'd be 100% covered under our dual satisfaction and product warranties."
Summary and some questions:
I told myself after I built my last PC that I'd just buy a Dell next time, in order to avoid spending countless hours scouring forum posts and hardware review sites in search of detailed information. Alas, here I am again, this time with a post that I've spent two months updating/rewriting on my end before finally posting it a week prior to my build. Any and all general input and tips/advice are greatly appreciated. As for my upgrade path, I don't upgrade too frequently; the only upgrade I am actually planning for is possibly a new Penrynn chip in a few years if these massive Intel price cuts keep happening, as well as possibly a new video card 1-2 years down the line. I've also got a couple of specific questions that I'm hoping someone can answer:
A) For people that own the P182E case, as well as any of the parts on the above list, have you had any issues of getting things to fit properly without resorting to extreme measures? Of particular concern are the video card, length of PSU cables, and the Thermalright (as well as the combination of all these components).
B) I was just wondering if anyone had purchased the 3007WFP-HC from Costco? Or is ordering direct from Dell SB the preferred method (what kind of discount have you guys been able to swing lately?). The only thing I'm somewhat worried about is that Dell might be shipping their "lower quality" revision panels to Costco Online, while selling the "better" panels through their own site. Other than this most likely unfounded concern, I'm not really seeing any reason reason to order through Dell rather than Costco Online.
C) Will I have issues with the four sticks of Patriot eXtreme RAM (2GB each)? I know that I'll have to install Vista with just one 2GB stick and then install a patch to enable me to use the other three sticks. Just wondering if the P5K Deluxe combined with this brand of memory will have any other issues? Also, would I be able to get by with any cheaper RAM if I don't intend to OC past 3.0ghz? 3.0 is my target OC, using four sticks of 2GB DDR2 RAM.
D) Part of me wants to drop $200 on that new DiNovo keyboard; the other part of me thinks I'm crazy to even consider spending $200 on a keyboard. The keyboard is probably the last component that I haven't really decided on yet; I'm currently using a standard Dell keyboard that was part of a really old pre-built PC that I purchased maybe 7+ years ago. That is to say, I don't -think- I'm that picky with keyboards. I prefer typing on my Thinkpad's keyboard, but I prefer working/gaming on a standard keyboard that doesn't have such low-profile keys. Basically, looking for some thoughts on whether I really need any of these new fancy keyboards such as the DiNovo or the G11/G15 - or if I should just stick with instinct and get your everyday $10 keyboard.
Edits:
7/20 @ 9:45am - Cleaned up the post a bit, cross-posted to Anandtech forums for more opinions, changed questions.
7/18 @ 1:00pm - Added another 4GB ram, dropped 9x12 tablet (realized I can live with 6x8 for now), updated latest pricing, changed questions.
7/18 @ 12:49am - Reformatted price list to more easily see where the money is going with this build.
7/17 @ 1:10am - Added some info regarding Swan M200's.
7/16 @ 12:15am - Ditched Zalman 9700 for Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme + Scyth S-FLEX 120mm Case Fan.
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