not just GM and social sescurity with underfunded pensions

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
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Translation- "Underfunded" means there's been a lot of lying, cheating and stealing going on, but it's the perfectly legal variety. It's a no-brainer for company-controlled pensions and unscrupulous execs. Put $50M in the pension plan, like we're supposed to do, or talk to the bean counters about using "credits", instead, then get the BOD to hand me a $50M bonus... If the stock price dips too low before I can exercise my options, I'll get the administrators to buy more company stock, support the price...

I'm sure there are a variety of other scenarios available, which all boil down to the same thing- take the money and run. I mean, if you're gonna suck the company dry, leave behind an empty shell, might as well loot the pension plan on the way out...
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,684
136
Yeh, well, Amplifier, any investment/pension scenario involves trusting other people with your money. Stocks, bonds, mutual funds- you name it. So the point is that you need to trust people who can't make a killing, bail out leaving you holding the (empty) bag.

Independently administered defined contribution plans are the only real answer. Even if the company goes broke, the pension plan stands on its own, insofar as that's possible. All pension plans depend on a pay as you go model to some degree or another. The administrators get a small set % fee, and the company and the plan members make their contributions on a schedule- no "credits". Benefits are paid out on a model of sustainability- they can even go down if conditions are very poor. The administrators are also licensed and bonded. Sure, it cuts down on the annual % gain, but that's not the big issue with pensions. Safety and stability are the big issues, something that just won't happen when corporate execs stand to benefit from unfair manipulation of funds they control. The one thing they're sure of is that if they don't take the money, the next guy will... attempting to do the right thing within the context of the law and the system seems pretty pointless from their perspective, so get it while you can... and they are.